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Harlequin's are in a good place currently. They still have durability issues, but I think you will see them succeed in the new GW missions. They can use their speed to jump out to an early point lead, and then when they melt like butter it won't matter as much because they can still win after they are all dead.

That's a good point, we've always been better in the early game, now at least we shouldn't have to be quite as worried about the late game.

Everyones Melta pistols/Gun/Heavy got cheaper.

I honestly wish we had a 2pt decrease also for our troupes... it makes me sad how costly they are compare to wyches, when they are double the bodies and 30% more damage for the same points. RC is good, but PfP is equal in 8th IMO.


But i'm hoping by the 3rd Vigilus book we will have at least 1 or 2 Specialist Detachments to help us out (thats not Skyweavers)

I posted this in the Eldar thread, but didn't get much love, what are your thoughts?

For those that run Soups, particularly Harlies on bikes with Eldar, what do you do regarding HQs for them?

Skyweavers are great, adding a HQ can be hard though. I want to run a very mobile army, almost everything on bikes. but I'm not sure if a foot HQ will keep up. Looking at a Shadowseer, the Eldar HQs will be Skyrunners.

Adding a Troupe and a Transport will cost ~200pts, 300pts with the HQ, although not a complete tax as they could be effective on their own. I'd prefer not to include them and put the pts somewhere else.

Do people have problems with foot harlies in a mobile force? I'm worried they will be left behind/easy to pick off.

I thinking shadowseer, plus 3,3,4 bikes, fully kitted.

Shadowseer with Twilight Pathways and Shards of light. The negative hit powers only help infantry, not the bikes. If nothing else he can just crank out MWs.
TMs aren't much good on their own. And like you said a Quin troop will usually run about 210-225 pts including a Starweaver, which you have to include to get anything out of them.

If you have point availability I'd rather bring a Seer and Solitaire rather than a TM and Troupe

For the bikes each squad usually will have one bike with Bolas (to save a few points and to be the first to die), everything else with Glaives.

Got a game on New Year's (yeah, I was going to go to a party but I realised I'm far too cool for that), trying out the bikes I got for Chrimbo:

Pretty standard Soaring Spite set up: everything zooms up the board, the Shadowseer gets out and catapults the big bike squad forward. Only thing I'm wavering on is whether to split the bike squads into 3 and run an Outrider: gives an extra CP, I can give the bikes a better Masque form and they'd be less vulnerable to overkill but the Shadowseer trick wouldn't work as well.

Thoughts?

I’m just starting a harlie army and I am curious. Is the caress the only worthwhile weapon?

I’ve no idea how your army will work but it looks cool and you’ve squeezed in plenty of fun toys. Good luck

 Ideasweasel wrote:
I’m just starting a harlie army and I am curious. Is the caress the only worthwhile weapon?

Here's what I can tell between the Caress, Embrace and Kiss (note I haven't been playing Harlies that long):
The Kiss is not as useful since you'll be taking fusion pistols to deal with multi-wound models.
That leaves the Embrace and Caress - The Embrace is better against T3, T6 and T7 whilst the Caress is better against T4, T5 and T8; the Caress is better against anything with an invul that is at most 2 worse than it's armour save; the Caress is better against anything with a 5+ save or worse. So it's really just a matter of what you require, in most cases you won't be too worried about T3 targets and you have fusion and Haywire to deal with most T7/T8 targets. So ask yourself this: how many units do you know that are T6, have a 2+/3+ save and lack a good invulnerable save?

I’ve no idea how your army will work but it looks cool and you’ve squeezed in plenty of fun toys. Good luck

Cheers, I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Remember that you cannot advance and fire pistols, so you'll find times where a kiss or two is a nice to have, since fusion only have a 6" range. Also, kiss variants are great against characters for doing multiple points of damage. I find embrace to be lacking unless you come up with a list where you need that last single point.

 mokoshkana wrote:
Remember that you cannot advance and fire pistols, so you'll find times where a kiss or two is a nice to have, since fusion only have a 6" range. Also, kiss variants are great against characters for doing multiple points of damage. I find embrace to be lacking unless you come up with a list where you need that last single point.

You can if you're Soaring Spite. Hense why most people using drivebys are Soaring Spite, you can advance and shoot, and no BS penalty or pistol targeting restrictions.

The only Kiss I use is on a Solitaire with the Rose, otherwise it's a mix of Carresses and Embraces... if Troupes get many CC upgrades at all.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
Remember that you cannot advance and fire pistols, so you'll find times where a kiss or two is a nice to have, since fusion only have a 6" range. Also, kiss variants are great against characters for doing multiple points of damage. I find embrace to be lacking unless you come up with a list where you need that last single point.

You can if you're Soaring Spite. Hense why most people using drivebys are Soaring Spite, you can advance and shoot, and no BS penalty or pistol targeting restrictions.

The only Kiss I use is on a Solitaire with the Rose, otherwise it's a mix of Carresses and Embraces... if Troupes get many CC upgrades at all.

Soaring Spite only allows them to do that in a transport though. If you lose that transport and have to hoof it, then no advance and shoot.

Had three games yesterday with my 1500pts list:

1st game -
Against DeathGuard with double Daemon Princes, Spawn, Plague Toads, Possessed and a R&H detachment with thud guns and disciples. Maelstorm mission that ended in a draw. I went first, charged across the board and the game devolved into a slap fest with the Nurgle stuff just not dying! I got tabled but we were playing with CA18 rules so my opponent got another turn of play where he evened the score.
Notes - I need to keep a cheat sheet with me: I forgot my shuriken cannons turn 1, I forgot about a lot of my stratagems and I forgot about my Shadowseer and Troupe Master's special rules.

2nd Game -
Against Imperial Guard Tank hunter list (3 Super Heavy Tanks plus support tanks). Crushing victory for me. Jesus! I tabled my opponent by turn 2 with those fusion and Haywire guns. I felt pretty sorry about that game.

3rd Game -
Against the first list again. Loss for me. It was a pretty close game and game down to three combats which I bungled; the first was three units of Troupes vs a single Daemon Prince but my opponent rolled ao well for saves I just couldn't kill him; the second was a stupid charge I made when a single bike charged a Renegade commander instead of just sitting on an objective and I got punished for my mistake; and the last was a duel between a Troupe master and a Lord of Contagion over the last objective of the game which would decide the victor but I forgot I could re-roll wound rolls, the LoC survived with 1 wound, killed me and ended the game.

Overall I had loads of fun and I might do a bit better in the future if I manage to remember my rules.

What was your 1500 pt list? There is a 1500 pt tournament coming up soon in my area and i was thinking of trying my harlies in it.

Azuza001 wrote:What was your 1500 pt list? There is a 1500 pt tournament coming up soon in my area and i was thinking of trying my harlies in it.

So my flgs is running an escalation league over the next few months. We are currently at 500 pts and i am running harliquins in it. So far they are doing me proud, only lost 2 games so far, one vs dark eldar wych cult force (was a heck of a game though) and one vs imperial guard (i simply played it wrong and was punished for it).

Last night i finally tried out the death jester and curtinfall. Omg that is such a beast weapon! I played vs craftworld and he was doing some serious work. One turn i put 4 wounds on a wave serpent (damn serpent shield, would have been 7) without breaking a sweat.

My question is is it better to bring a 2nd detachment of shadowseer and 3 deathjesters to get curtainfall or just a single dj as an auxiliary detachment to get it? I run a large force of starweavers as soaring spite normally so i have trouble sometimes finding the points just to put a single shadowseer into my force.

Would love to here how others run him, if at all.

Azuza001 wrote:
So my flgs is running an escalation league over the next few months. We are currently at 500 pts and i am running harliquins in it. So far they are doing me proud, only lost 2 games so far, one vs dark eldar wych cult force (was a heck of a game though) and one vs imperial guard (i simply played it wrong and was punished for it).

Last night i finally tried out the death jester and curtinfall. Omg that is such a beast weapon! I played vs craftworld and he was doing some serious work. One turn i put 4 wounds on a wave serpent (damn serpent shield, would have been 7) without breaking a sweat.

My question is is it better to bring a 2nd detachment of shadowseer and 3 deathjesters to get curtainfall or just a single dj as an auxiliary detachment to get it? I run a large force of starweavers as soaring spite normally so i have trouble sometimes finding the points just to put a single shadowseer into my force.

Would love to here how others run him, if at all.

I dont think so, you are spending many points for 1CP, just take the 1CP hit and take units you actually want.

What are you running at 500 points?

My typical 500 pt list is

Patrol detachment

Troop master - 70 pts
Death jester - 45 pts

2 x troupe - 5 players, 4 w/ fusion

2 x starweavers

Total : 499 pts.


However we are about to bump it up to 750 so with that i will definitely be able to get my brigade in for sweet sweet cp.


Though i have been mixing it up lately. Last night i played 2 lists, one was a foot harliquen list with the curtainfall death jester, it did alright but that jester man..... he was the star of the list.

2nd list i have had a lot of success with is the fusion star missile list.


Patrol -

Shadowseer : shards of light, twilight paths, warlord trait skystrider.
Troop master : faolchu's talon, fusion pistol

Player troupe : 5 players, all w/ fusion pistols

2x starweavers

Total 500 pts.


Starweavers fly forward, then shadowseer jumps out and twilight paths fusion loaded starweaver another 26" so a 52" move t1. It unloads, then when my opponent freaks out (and they do) spend 2 cp for -1 to hit and 1cp for 3++ save. Makes for a hell of a distraction..... won that game too... though again close fight.

You mean Battalion? Brigade is 6 Troops 3 HQs 3 of each other lol, its like 1300pts or something for quins.

Battalion is 2 HQ's 3 Troops.

The only good DJ is the Curtainfall one with CP to buff it, Curtainfall with Shrieking Doom and An Example Made, means you are S8, -3AP, D3, 2 Hits instead of 1 (or just 1Cp and shoot 3x for 6 S7, -2, 1D) its viable way to play a DJ, but honestly at higher point games (1500+) you wont notice that little damage for so much CP, it is best in smaller games.

Yeah batallion lol.

Anyone have much luck trying a sniper bus? Starweaver with 3 death jesters putting out 15 shuriken cannon shots, with 9 being targetable vs chrs, seems good to me.

add in an HQ and you have a vanguard detachment for 359pts with a shadowseer, 3 DJs and a starweaver. I'm just not sure that a vanguard of DJs is going to have much impact on a regular game. One DJ for curtainfall seems OK though.

Hello Laughing Bunch.

the world and flavour of 40K has changed since 2005 when last I played. After a couple years under my belt, I'm getting the hang of 8th.

I play CWE 90% and the rest is Blood Angels/Tyranids. I do have a Dark Eldar and PDF force which I have played with Index lists.

So I am about to start using Harlies again. My list is old old models.

I do not have the Dex or cards yet and have not looked over the newer stuff much. Will plan to do so.

I am curious fluff and marketing reasons why the ranges have changed.

First where is the Great Harlequin????

Why are their 2 rider Jetbikes but no options for 1 rider jetbikes???

I see no Mimes, Master Mimes, Benathai Familiars, Shadow Seer Acolytes, Harliquin Wraithlord/dreadnought.....when did GW decide to remove those?

Back in the day Rasmus included my Harlequin MockingBird in the first ever FanDex for the Harlies.
I had come up with a vyper with a sonic cannon for their theatre sound (based on the Vibro Canon). Now years later it seems the SkyWeaver and StarWeaver is a direct decendant of my dreamchild from 15+ years ago......grrrrrr (At least my name was wayyyyyy cooollllllller!)

So without having read 'modern' Harliquin fluff, why are some important elements of our lists gone? It is such a scarce list as it was. Seems like everything should be included and more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For those not in the know:

The Great Harlequin led every troupe and was equal to the Solitaire in many ways.

ShadowSeer Acolytes were low level shadowseers in training and only were present if a master seer was with them.

Mimes were a scout type unit of a troupe squad.

Master Mimes was a character almost equal to the Great Harlequin in battle but with infiltration rules.

Harlequin Dreadnought was a conversion of a Wraithlord with a Psychic Scream and Psychic Lance. It caused Terror and could chew thru vehicles.

The Benathai Familiar was the coolest model ever. It was based on the Eagle Endobi that saved the Laughing god from Slaanesh. The GW story was epic. the model was an epic scale War Walker with the eagle head of Marneus Calgar banner pack. They had twin lasers that were surprisingly good for a model the size of a grot and they defeneded their ShadowSeers in groups of 1 to 4 in numbers.

Great Harlequin is in the Book, you need to upgrade 1 Troupe Master to it.

Two riders is just aesthetic, there is no reason, you can used only 1 rider on it and it wouldnt change anything. Some players do and use the other rider as a Troupe. The extra rider just enabled it to gain +1 wound over normal bikers for rules purpose.

GW had a HUGE lawsuit with 3rd party model makers about 4 years ago, they actually lost and had to pull many models, so many armies lost some units. WHen GW went to redesign the Harlequins they desided to not add much to them (the lawsuit and being a "NIche" army meant they wouldnt be very large out the door) This doesnt mean we wont get new models in the future.

Old rules are gone, new rules are here. Every army is different now for the most part from 2nd edition.

Harlequins where in 8th can be fun, especially using DE/CWE allies. So before you write them off due to fluff and unit changes you should try them out

well except for the Master Mime, Benethai Familiar and Acolytes all the other Harlequin stuff did make it into 3rd ed.

Yesterday I came across Citadel Journal 44 which was a follow-up Updated to the 'trial' list given to Harlequin players.

Was that the LAST Harlequin stuff from GW til they got a codex in 7th edition?

As for models? Yes, as for rules? No, they have a 8th edition new codex.

Looking at the amount of posts etc, I would say quins aren't popular.. is the army competetive? I'm looking at starting a 1000pt army and adding craft world for the other 1k.

The army is solid. Big reason why there aren't more pages is just because there aren't many different units. You can only talk about the same 8 units for so long before you just start having the same discussions over and over again.

The majority of people use Harlequins as part of an Aeldari list, some do pure Harlequins though. They can be competitive for sure, but force multipliers like Craftworld Psychers and Ynnari Soulbursts are often seen as too good to pass up when it comes to the competitive scene.

They do have a couple of the best units in the game though. The Solitaire is a beast, with the Rose he is excellent at taking down multi-wound infantry. Skyweavers are also one of the best units in the game, mainly because of the insane popularity of Knights (Skyweavers were just 'good' before the Knight codex, after the Knight release, they became awesome). Most other selections get the job done, with the Voidweaver and Death Jester being more 'situational' choices.

You can make a solid Battalion for roughly 1000pts, they are a ton of fun on the tabletop once you are familiar with all their tricks.

Sn33R wrote:
Looking at the amount of posts etc, I would say quins aren't popular.. is the army competetive? I'm looking at starting a 1000pt army and adding craft world for the other 1k.

As an ally in CWE or DE they are amazing, as an army them selves they are lacking, the Troupes seem good, but they have the marines problem, to many points for what they do. Wyches out survive and out damage when equally pointed for Melee. FP spam is boring and doesnt work well in 8th.

With that said, the Deathjester, Solitaire, Skyweavers are all very good. The Voidweaver and HQ's work as well. You will see many Soup lists having either some Elite character, a Skyweaver unit, or both.

Also, they become boring really fast, as the army is only a few units and its essentially only does 3 things, 24" S6 shooting, 4++ (So 50% chance to always fail your saves, No armor but 1 unit, no bonus to saves via cover), and S4 (or S5) melee with limited buffs.

They do have very fun characters and Relic, you can make some of the best and more fun to play with combos in the game. Suit of Knives vs mass melee is fun on a -2 hit Shadowseer that is also -1 to wound. Double attack, anti-overwatch Solitaire, DJ with 30" sniper that can run and shoot with bonus damage. Turn 1 charging TM and Solitaires.

I love my Quins, but they are always more fun and better with Soup (In before "But everything is" No, my CWE, DE, Tyranids work fine solo for both TAC lists and repetitive fun) I, a bit biased tho when it comes to fun, b.c i play 2-4 games a week, so if a army doesnt have enough to do in it i get bored.

I have the same opinion as the last two posters. The lack of variety really is the main issue. You can't really try new things like you can with DE or CWE, which can build a variety of very different lists, especially at the casual/semi-competitive level.

I also really dislike the army-wide 4++ as a mechanism. When you field a mono Harlequin army, you can basically tell your opponent that the AP column of his/her weapons is completely irrelevant. It's not a great design to simply ignore a whole base mechanism. And that also removes a lot of variety/tactical choices during the game.

So what is the main role of the Harlequin in a CWE list?

What does the ShadowSeer do?
What does the Troupe do? If you even take one.
What is the role of the Skyweavers?

How small is the most impactful detachment of Harlies and how does it work.

Is it just a counter charge or distraction carnifex or does it have an integral role.

I cannot see a small detachment being board control...So they are disruptive I guess.

I played a 1k point game vs them last nite for the first time...so I have a bit of insight to how they play. They do seem very limited in their tactics.