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2019/12/22 15:16:38
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/12/22 17:37:07
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Ding ding ding.
2019/12/22 17:37:43
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2019/12/22 17:44:28
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
A more tolerant, less violent society where a larger amount of competence can be taken advantage of than in a less educated one. That's not even including the synergistic effects of having a population that is well-versed in a broad set of skills.
There's also the egalitarian part: why should those of means be premiered above those of merit?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 17:46:37
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/12/22 17:54:06
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
He referenced "education" not "knowledge" which are related but not the same. Why go off about the latter, that isn't what he was talking about.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 17:56:52
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
A more tolerant, less violent society where a larger amount of competence can be taken advantage of than in a less educated one. That's not even including the synergistic effects of having a population that is well-versed in a broad set of skills.
There's also the egalitarian part: why should those of means be premiered above those of merit?
You’ve missed the point entirely. I am not arguing that education is bad or that an educated populace doesn’t benefit society. I am arguing that if the manner in which our populace obtains a secondary education is going to be transactional wherein colleges and universities declare that the education they provide to students has a value in the tens of thousands D.D. of dollars and the schools must therefore be paid that much in compensation for their service by either the individual student or the State then students must be able to recoup tens of thousands of dollars in earning power thanks to the education they received. If students aren’t getting $30k worth of benefit from a $30k college degree then it isn’t an equitable transaction. We are living in the Information Age nearly all of our collective knowledge is available for free or a mere pittance.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2019/12/22 18:05:01
Subject: Re:Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Prestor Jon wrote: We are living in the Information Age nearly all of our collective knowledge is available for free or a mere pittance.
It takes quite a bit of arrogance to believe that one can just figure out the sum knowledge of humanity on one's own.
NinthMusketeer wrote: He referenced "education" not "knowledge" which are related but not the same. Why go off about the latter, that isn't what he was talking about.
That's also a fair point. To quote historical professor Thomas Thorild, "To think freely is great, to think rightly is greater". There's a lot of really great stuff one can learn as an autodidact, but there's also eleventyfive billion pitfalls
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 18:06:17
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/12/22 18:18:55
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
nareik wrote: Again you are assuming all beggars are homeless .
Am I though? Or are you making assumptions about what I assume?
I’m saying that in Canada, one needn’t beg for sustenance, nor does anyone have an excuse to be homeless up here.
There is the food bank - free food.
There is welfare - no need for a job.
There are shelters, and subsidized housing - no lack of shelter.
There are free clean needle and drug abuse support centres - no need to pay for counselling.
There are free social work centres - no need to look for a job on your own.
All I’m saying, and assuming, is that if I somehow ended up homeless, I wouldn’t remain that way for long, if at all.
I’m not assuming anything except for a persons lack of seeking out assistance for a bad situation they might happen to be in.
I’ve used a few of these programs myself when I was 18 and had a lack of support, which is why I assume that there is no reason anyone in Canada should be in such dire circumstances that they are forced to beg for a living, or end up homeless. A lack of using the resources is the only excuse for that.
2019/12/22 18:24:41
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
A more tolerant, less violent society where a larger amount of competence can be taken advantage of than in a less educated one. That's not even including the synergistic effects of having a population that is well-versed in a broad set of skills.
There's also the egalitarian part: why should those of means be premiered above those of merit?
You’ve missed the point entirely. I am not arguing that education is bad or that an educated populace doesn’t benefit society. I am arguing that if the manner in which our populace obtains a secondary education is going to be transactional wherein colleges and universities declare that the education they provide to students has a value in the tens of thousands D.D. of dollars and the schools must therefore be paid that much in compensation for their service by either the individual student or the State then students must be able to recoup tens of thousands of dollars in earning power thanks to the education they received.
I'm fairly sure you're talking about tertiary education.
That aside, education doesn't need to be remotely as expensive is in the US, or indeed the UK.
If students aren’t getting $30k worth of benefit from a $30k college degree then it isn’t an equitable transaction. We are living in the Information Age nearly all of our collective knowledge is available for free or a mere pittance.
How are you measuring that benefit?
Whilst I am partisan, the idea that many people can gain the quality of education that they can from a good university through self-directed study and a library card and the internet is laughable. Even aside from the interactive nature of university education that makes an enormous, well-evidenced difference, heck, even ignoring education at all and focusing entirely on collecting information, all the best getting up to date information on research in most fields without an institutional affiliation of buckets of money - because we're a million miles away from universal open access.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/22 18:27:37
2019/12/22 23:32:27
Subject: Re:Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
It hasn't really, we (all, and in general) have just replaced feudalism with capitalism and nobles with capitalists. Those nobles are still have power due to all the stuff they own, not because of their titles. They lost some power but not the really important bits.
Economics failure detected
That from the person who couldn't do it on his own and needed the US armed forces generous benefits to pay for college? Nice projection you got working there.
Nice insult there.
Sat on this for a few hours, but wanted to point something out to how ignorant your statement is.
Couldn't make it on our own, and needed the military to give us free money. Ok sure. So, instead of going the route that way to many have, and put themselves into massive debt for college, many of us instead choose a different path. Where we sacrifice the best years of our lifes, our physical, and our mental health, for the opportunity to earn money for college.
I just earned my Bachelors degree last month. After 12 years in school, because it took me that long with my military obligations. The things I paid for that? I've spent the last 2 years attending mental health therapy. I've spent 6 years of the 14 I've been married to my wife, on a different continent then her. I've undergone numerous surgeries. I've spent years in physical therapy. I'm looking at retiring in a couple of years with a pretty hefty helping of disability.
I'm a person who "couldn't do it on his own" according to you. That's utterly laughable, but you just keep throwing those generalizations out there buddy. In the meantime, me and my brothers and sisters will still be spending parts of our lives over there protecting your country, because you guys can't bother to maintain a military that can protect your own nation.
I'm fairly certain that was Mario turning Adeptus Doritos worldview back against him, not an actual agreement with said worldview.
Exactly, and on top of that I find that the fact that about 75% of those who enlisted did it for educational benefits (link) quite horrifying (actual utilisation: 48%). You got a college education but at a incredibly high cost and nobody should need to make that type of choices, especially as most people make them at a very young age when they are still very much not that smart. There are (or were?) similar issues/stories about many young trans people who enlisted because the military offered them mental/medical support that their own families didn't (link with some data, quote: "about 21.4% of the total transgender population in the US is estimated to have served in the military". Or their families just kicked them out and they had to find some way to survive.
Joining the military and all the danger around it shouldn't ever be your last resort.
Also in the context of my quip about the shift from feudalism -> capitalism, having 75% of your army being there because they want to utilise some other service, makes it feel like feudal levies but with extra steps. Instead of feudal obligations (so they could farm) you were fulfilling capitalistic obligation (so you could learn). Yes you couldn't make it on your own but nobody should need to do it on their own. That's not a bad thing or something to be ashamed of. That's why we have governments, social services, and similar support structures. My studies were subsidised and now my taxes help subsidies the studies of other students who don't have the means to "do it on their own". Only a tiny number of people actually can do it on their own and even then that usually means support from their families, or old, accumulated wealth, so again not really "on their own".
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
Have you seen how many people fall for random hoaxes (the latest, I think, being about ingesting bleach to fight cancer), Alex Jones type of deception, and other lies? Some guidance when it comes to learning is a good thing. College education in the USA costs tend of thousands of dollars due to a combination of multiple structural issues, not because learning/teaching/lecturing is so expensive. Isn't most of that (today) done by lowly paid grad student anyways, while their professors are trying to keep their research funding from collapsing?
This approach is also what lead to colleges and universities in the USA seeing students as customers and trying to appease them. You wouldn't have so many snowflake student protests if colleges didn't depend on students paying directly (and being seen as paying customers first). Students would be busy studying. From what I have read, students in the USA get somewhat coddled and grading is also much softer over there because colleges need/want to keep students (their payments actually) from dropping out too quickly.
2019/12/22 23:38:18
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Any army enticing enlistment through monetary, educational, psychological or career advancement is an army which has massive loyality issues due to the rank and file beeing first and foremost loyal to the institution and not the political society it comes from.
Also the feudalism term is quite apt, infact it perfectly shows the issues that are happeneing with regards to loyality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/22 23:39:04
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/12/23 00:05:40
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
It's not that black and white though is it? Most people wouldn't serve without some added benefits. I for example, am massively grateful for the (although ours isnt the best) subsidised family house. Back when I was a singly I enjoyed cheap accomodation and subsidised food. I got my driving licenses for free, aswell as a bunch of other things. Over here the military doesn't pay for education, but you do get credits to use on education or employment courses based on duration served.
Plus I get to go to the gym during work time pretty much every day so...
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2019/12/23 01:25:24
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Not Online!!! wrote: Any army enticing enlistment through monetary, educational, psychological or career advancement is an army which has massive loyality issues due to the rank and file beeing first and foremost loyal to the institution and not the political society it comes from.
I imagine you're generalizing but it sounds like you've watched too many movies to me.
I have to ask, if we take out the incentive to enlist than what does that leave, conscription? I don't personally see how that encourages loyalty to ones country.
Joining the Army was probably the best choice I could have made at the time for employment, I had no interest in more school and saw no possibility to "make it" where I was living.
I would have lived in depressive poverty probably forever. For a person like myself with no academic interests and no desire to continue school, which I have never enjoyed, this was the best choice I could make.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
2019/12/23 01:59:06
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
People can have more than one motivation to do something. Just having a primary motivation does not mean that one thing is the -only- reason they did it.
Also, an important factor when discussing the US military is that while the danger and stress are very real our military is essentially massive overkill deployed in teaspoon amounts; the only restraint boils down to officials answering the question of "how much money do we want to spend on this." There is no realistic concern about the country being unable to defend itself.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
A more tolerant, less violent society where a larger amount of competence can be taken advantage of than in a less educated one. That's not even including the synergistic effects of having a population that is well-versed in a broad set of skills.
There's also the egalitarian part: why should those of means be premiered above those of merit?
Because we have well documented proof that educated or knowledgeable people have never been violent or intolerant. Naturally.
Also, what is the difference between the college education and simply reading all that knowledge online and absorbing it? The degree. And what do employers look for as far as proof of education? Certainly not browser history. If the degree wasn't intrinsically valuable in that respect, why pursue it?
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
That is quite the straw man.
And that's quite a dismissal without attempting to dispute. I think it's because you really CAN'T dispute that.
I think the issue with education starts a lot earlier than college. Over here most (non-international at least) university students are there under government scholarship and pay much reduced fees and not upfront. Even then, there’s a massive bias to folk who grew up in wealthy areas when you take a cross section of university students in money-earning degrees.
So it’s largely a merit based system, but if you weren’t born lucky to start with you statistically are less likely to be competing on merit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/23 05:30:13
2019/12/23 07:58:37
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Not Online!!! wrote: Any army enticing enlistment through monetary, educational, psychological or career advancement is an army which has massive loyality issues due to the rank and file beeing first and foremost loyal to the institution and not the political society it comes from.
I imagine you're generalizing but it sounds like you've watched too many movies to me.
I have to ask, if we take out the incentive to enlist than what does that leave, conscription? I don't personally see how that encourages loyalty to ones country.
Joining the Army was probably the best choice I could have made at the time for employment, I had no interest in more school and saw no possibility to "make it" where I was living.
I would have lived in depressive poverty probably forever. For a person like myself with no academic interests and no desire to continue school, which I have never enjoyed, this was the best choice I could make.
Conscription is indeed the way imo, mostly because higher demands from a democratic societies body leads to higher demands for rights for said democratic body.
Also even conscription armies have a smaller core of job military the core however remains loyal to the society which should be the End goal due to less abuse beeing possible.
And no i don't really watch Movies , i am more a book type of guy, books like "du contrat sociale" etc.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/12/23 12:54:37
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A Town Called Malus wrote: Maybe you should make further education free so nobody has to choose between lifelong debt and PTSD and physical trauma.
That's a misnomer. What you mean is "maybe you should subsidize further education that way we can make successful people pay for the potential success of later generations, despite the fact that nothing about the secondary education system lends itself to preventing applicants from getting gak degrees that won't land them employment that the couldn't get with just a high school diploma."
Or basically "we want other people's money."
Fortunately, the point of education isn't to employ people. An educated populace is a goal in itself, not just a means to making more money.
Fortunately a person can gain access to pretty much all of the accumulated knowledge of humanity with a library card (usually free or only a few dollars) and/or an internet connection (available through a variety of means for an affordable monthly fee). What support do you have for your argument that we need a national secondary education system funded by students incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt and billions of dollars in state and federal subsidized simply for people to satiate their curiosity about anything? We already have free public libraries for people to use for the pursuit of knowledge. An education that costs tens of thousands of dollars better provide the student with more utility and value than simply the addition of new knowledge.
A more tolerant, less violent society where a larger amount of competence can be taken advantage of than in a less educated one. That's not even including the synergistic effects of having a population that is well-versed in a broad set of skills.
There's also the egalitarian part: why should those of means be premiered above those of merit?
Because we have well documented proof that educated or knowledgeable people have never been violent or intolerant. Naturally.
Let's never try to improve anything, because it's not ever going to end up being perfect anyway.
Do you even read what you're posting yourself? I shouldn't have to explain that "more tolerant" isn't the same as "perfectly tolerant" and yet here I am, explaining that to you. Come on. Stop putting words in my mouth.
Also, what is the difference between the college education and simply reading all that knowledge online and absorbing it? The degree.
A bunch of different knowledgable people's viewpoints on the subject you're studying, and the much reduced risk of running into people that seem reasonable but that are actually complete hacks.
Again, it takes a staggering amount of arrogance to believe that people can just sit at home and turn into brilliant autodidacts in any given field. It just does not work, barring a few select prodigies.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/12/23 15:21:51
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Also, what is the difference between the college education and simply reading all that knowledge online and absorbing it? The degree. And what do employers look for as far as proof of education? Certainly not browser history. If the degree wasn't intrinsically valuable in that respect, why pursue it?
The main difference is that you've spent several years demonstrating an ability to critique and process that knowledge and communicate the results.
Anyone can submit material to peer reviewed journals. Do you think there's a reason that submissions from people without advanced degrees almost never make it through that (usually blind) peer review process?
2019/12/23 17:40:24
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Also even conscription armies have a smaller core of job military the core however remains loyal to the society which should be the End goal due to less abuse beeing possible.
Conscription's primary service is that it leads to a society which has no military fetish. I don't know anyone who had to do mandatory training that doesn't think career military are all idiots by trade.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/23 20:21:48
2019/12/23 20:32:34
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Also even conscription armies have a smaller core of job military the core however remains loyal to the society which should be the End goal due to less abuse beeing possible.
Conscription's primary service is that it leads to a society which has no military fetish. I don't know anyone who had to do mandatory training that doesn't think career military are all idiots by trade.
I agree somewhat on the first part, military service and general status of the military is preety ingrained here. fetishised altough not really. Accepted or liked as a institution, yeah preety universally funnily enough (and if you go dig a bit in swiss behaviour that is actually a wonder). Even though the motivation of your standard fuisilier is somewhere between 0 and nothing. often.
AS for career military, no, we call them "agfresse" or "angefressen", meaning a bit overly dedicated. Idiots generally they aren't, atleast not here, but then again they had to make do with an army of more or less happy fusiliers which also tend to be vocal and can bully them and their budgets pretty heavily.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/23 20:33:12
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GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/12/23 21:13:56
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
queen_annes_revenge wrote: It's not that black and white though is it? Most people wouldn't serve without some added benefits. I for example, am massively grateful for the (although ours isnt the best) subsidised family house. Back when I was a singly I enjoyed cheap accomodation and subsidised food. I got my driving licenses for free, aswell as a bunch of other things. Over here the military doesn't pay for education, but you do get credits to use on education or employment courses based on duration served.
Plus I get to go to the gym during work time pretty much every day so...
It's true that people wouldn't enlist without benefits (there are some benefits here in Germany too) but that's not the problem. The problem is that it seems like this is the only way out of a bad situation for a significant number of people, meaning for them it's not just "benefits" but much more fundamental and essential support. It can end up being a choice on a technicality only when all other options are just bad/worthless. Everybody should be able to live decently without needing to risk their lives in some war.
Military service should never be a last resort/emergency option for people. Some people need/want the more rigid structure of a military life, some see it as a duty/honour that they are doing for their country but if you make the choice to enlist then that shouldn't be "clouded" by considerations like "I have to do this because otherwise I might end up homeless and starve". This is not like a video game where you can just exit it when you are bored of it and without any consequences (mental and/or physical injuries).
Besides, if most people wouldn't serve then the US government wouldn't be able to just throw bodies at problems and would need to think of other ways of dealing with external/foreign issues. Because from another point of view the system as it exist right now looks like the military–industrial complex of the USA is just throwing poor people's lives away to make a profit.
2019/12/23 22:56:14
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
Reread the damn thread, I wasn't the one who was making the argument, I simply agreed.
I also am the one that said the stupid fething diploma wasn't worthless, just that all the information given to get said degree is readily accessible to anyone who is literate and has internet. I'm the one saying subsidizing college is a stupid idea because it would encourage even more worthless gak degrees getting passed out to people who aren't informed about their choices and saddles more debt on people that shouldn't be called upon to pay for someone's colossally stupid life mistakes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/23 22:58:58
Reread the damn thread, I wasn't the one who was making the argument, I simply agreed.
I also am the one that said the stupid fething diploma wasn't worthless, just that all the information given to get said degree is readily accessible to anyone who is literate and has internet. I'm the one saying subsidizing college is a stupid idea because it would encourage even more worthless gak degrees getting passed out to people who aren't informed about their choices and saddles more debt on people that shouldn't be called upon to pay for someone's colossally stupid life mistakes.
The information isn't readily accessible to everyone that has internet though, and even if it were expecting everyone to be an autodidact in (post-)graduate-level academics is just so mind-bogglingly stupid that I don't even know where to start. It's condescending, but it's true. How are you even supposed to know where to start? Try random web pages and hope for the best?
Not to mention you'd de facto be putting Google in a position of deciding what people get to learn or not. That alone is such a spectacularly, mind-bogglingly stupid idea that it doesn't merit anything other than ridicule and scorn.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/12/24 01:19:01
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
I think that the primary skill university teaches is teaching you how to teach yourself at varying levels. Any decent Humanities undergrad can do cursory digestion, analysis and summation of information. Any such postdoc can schedule a basic research program. An undergrad wouldn't know where to start in piercing together as halfway competent research program though. And Joe public would struggle to do either with no experience.
Any undergrad with a Humanities degree can thus probably teach themselves any other Humanities subject to the same level, and the same for a postdoc. They know how the game works.
At the same time, that falls apart once you get to stem. Stem learning is so heavily based on accumulated knowledge and specialist facilities you've no hope even with advanced study knowledge. Joe public has absolutely no chance of teaching themselves advanced dentistry or architecture from the internet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/24 01:19:58
2019/12/24 05:55:27
Subject: Another Reason You Will Never Retire.....
A university gives you structure to ensure you learn all of what you need to learn. At least ideally, most students forget most of what they learned assuming they learned it in the first place.
Even before the internet people could teach themselves from books. The university is there to make sure your mechanical engineers learn enough mathematics, structures, materials, basic dynamics and so on to do their mechanical engineering properly.
When we used to take our university-built race car to amateur race events, we’d see the guys who learned themselves and built their own cars. Not to disparage them because what they achieved was often incredible, but they also often lacked much of the basic knowledge that leads to a well designed car, and if they happened to have a well designed car it was often from mimicry rather than understanding of why.
You can figure out the folk who taught themselves engineering, or even things like YouTube channels of folks who might use engineering principles without actually having studied it... they might know that they’re doing something a certain way for a reason but don’t have a good grasp on that reason.
Even if they might do some impressive things, they aren’t the sort of folk you want building your cars, aircraft, bridges or doing surgery and prescribing drugs.
In addition to structure, universities have exams to help ensure people don’t skip content, and you’re being taught by experts so you are less likely to go down the path of idjits who put up websites without actually knowing what the hell theyre talking about.
As for university costing too much, I’m sure some do, a lot of money seems to get wasted, but also when you break it down on a course by course basis it’s often not as bad as you might think when you consider the infrastructure, lecturers and tutors required, and academics usually are well but not extremely well paid (often the same skill set in industry would make them more money).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/24 07:55:24
. Or their families just kicked them out and they had to find some way to survive.
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