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A lot of the time I barely understand the gibberish we're all using so I wonder how our non-English speaker do.

Do you feel you get most of the posts?

Do people understand your posts?

Do Americans and Australians count as native-English speakers
Ironically I found native speakers to sometimes have the worst spelling abilities in English.
But it get's dwarfed by non-language related problems like "posting before reading" or nerd-rage blindness.

I've torn into more than a few posters because their spelling and grammar were incomprehensible. It wasn't chicken scratch so much as it was a chicken with a broken leg dragging its bloodied stump across the keyboard. I'd never do this to a non-native English speaker though, since I know how hard it is to speak other languages. For instance, my German is awful.

Strangely, most non-native English speakers have better typing than the incomprehensible posters mentioned above. It's fascinating.

It's easier to tell a Non-native english speaker than a person who doesn't take time over their post.

For example in french, many adjectives come after the word rather than before it(This goes for most languages that come from a latin root) so if I see a person saying "painting nice" or something along those lines, I can usually suss out where they're coming from.

Of course Brother SRM has a point, the generalisation is that grammar is much more important when learning another language than to someone who speaks it fluently.

Psy.

Brother SRM wrote:I've torn into more than a few posters because their spelling and grammar were incomprehensible. It wasn't chicken scratch so much as it was a chicken with a broken leg dragging its bloodied stump across the keyboard. I'd never do this to a non-native English speaker though, since I know how hard it is to speak other languages. For instance, my German is awful.

Strangely, most non-native English speakers have better typing than the incomprehensible posters mentioned above. It's fascinating.

i find its much the same way, the non-english speakers have much better grammar and/or spelling than the native speakers

i find its much the same way, the non-english speakers have much better grammar and/or spelling than the native speakers

I've noticed this on a few occasions off-forum as well. I always have thought of it in terms of speaking your native language being akin to breathing; people don't pay much attention to it.

When you speak a foreign language, you pay a bit more attention as (at least for me) it is difficult and requires more of your attention.

As for second languages under my belt I have none, two years of Spanish class not actually counting IMO :p

Revenent Reiko wrote:i find its much the same way, the non-english speakers have much better grammar and/or spelling than the native speakers

That´s only because we care about stuff like grammar or proper spelling

Nah, just kidding. But it´s really the case that most "lazy" posts I see are actually from a native speaker.
Then again, there´s the whole internet problem: people tend to go lazy with spelling and grammar when typing, no matter what language they speak.

Do you feel you get most of the posts? Yep!

Do people understand your posts? NOPE!

When I'm on the mac I have a spelling corrector but when Im on the PC my spelling probably sucks... my grammar is also very crude... sorry for that!

Do you feel you get most of the posts?

-Yes I think I do

Do people understand your posts?

- I can't tell really, cause barely anoyone answers my posts .

Im sorry too!

Do you feel you get most of the posts?

-Yep. I do.

Do people understand your posts?

-I hope so.

An advantage to the Netherlands being such a tiny language area is that a majority of the films and television we see, music we listen to and books we read are in english. For a lot of media it just doesn't pay to translate and dub everything like it would have been in larger countries like Germany or France.

English has become so ingrained in our culture that english doesn't even really count as a second language anymore for things like getting a job.
to-be employee: "Oh, and I can speak and write english fluently."
employer: "Cool story bro"

It's why I kind of pity native english speakers, they have as their mother tongue what many people in other countries basically learn for free as a second language.

As a fun side-note: because the majority of the english I take in is written I may be using a less common word for years before hearing it in a movie or something, leading to some: "wait, that's how you pronounce that???" moments.

TiB wrote:
As a fun side-note: because the majority of the english I take in is written I may be using a less common word for years before hearing it in a movie or something, leading to some: "wait, that's how you pronounce that???" moments.

You'r not the only one I'm dyslexic and have real problems with phonetic decoding, so I will read a word, know what it means, and pronounce it how I think it should be said and get it totaly wrong.

Anyway, I find that even the most messed up English written by a non native speaker can normaly be worked out. It might sometimes take two or three readings to re-order words and work out the point, but in the end you can get there.

For me, as a dyslexic, the biggest problems are when native speekers have very bad grammar (I'm not talking grammar nazi stuff here, but totaly messed up), or who write realy badly, e.g. lacking punctuation, capitals, or writting a whole post ending every sentence fragement with ellipses, or, of course, when someone dose not re-read what they write befor they press submit, so it comes out as a ramble with no real point.

Generally non-native English speakers (certainly the ones that I have noticed) tend to be reasonably fluent. That could come from the less linguistically confident members not posting so often.

I tend to rely on my built in spell checker when I am at home as my spelling can be erratic (like Paul above I am dyslexic), though it does not help that it is stuck in American English, which can be confusing .

One odd thing with English is the number of ways people say the same thing.
There's Then/Than.
If someone says "Tau are better then Eldar", no-one cares that they used "then", when I see it as a spelling error. It just seems almost normal.
We abbreviate a lot, too. "Can't", "I'd", "Won't", etc.
I can barely speak or read French, but the Germanic and Latin origins of English help with lots of others.
If only I'd put the effort in.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Do you feel you get most of the posts?

I think so. I would dare to say that most of the times when I don't understand something that someone wrote it's not for the language, it's because of him/her talking about a "local" joke, or fact, that I, living in Spain, don't know.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Do people understand your posts?

I hope so, I need a few minutes to write each one. I have kind of a problem, a consequence of how I write in Spanish. I use to do build long sentences, so many times I'll just be staring at the screen thinking in how the hell I'm going to translate what I want to say without die trying.

I just studied English in school. Other than that, I use to listen many music in English (rock & metal), and see some TV series too (BSG FTW!!). I try to read English too. I bought the novel Titanicus by Dan Abnett directly from BlackLibrary.com in English, just because I thought that it was a volume with the Titan comic that used to appear in the GW comic, with Princeps Hekate and the Imperius Dictatio. When the order arrived and I saw that fat book, I died a little bit inside xD I still don't dare to read it. Also, I would like to try the Horus Heresy audiobooks but I think I wouldn´t understand a single thing.

I would like to study the language better, and try to achieve some official certificate, but I can't attend classes because of my work. I'll probably try a non-attending course.

WordReference.com is my best friend when I'm posting (or lurking) here.

I could use some criticism about my English xD

Edit: fixed some spelling LOL

Erasoketa, if it's any encouragement/consolation for all your hard work, I find your posts very readable. Well done, sir.

There's only been a couple of posters I can even think of who I've thought, ah English isn't their first language. Although it's never bothered me, and I'm pretty sure the two I'm thinking of have improved dramatically over the past year.

In fact, It reminds me once again how it seems folks around the world have a much stronger grasp of language than the average Brit.

I must really get off my rear and learn a second language at some point, just to prove to myself that I can. Although it probably doesn't help I want to learn Mandarin.

What confuses me is that if you're an English speaker and using Firefox or Chrome, there's a built-in spellcheck that puts red lines under every mistake you type. It isn't hard to right click and choose one of the suggested words. It's not perfect, but it's something.

I don't really know about my english....

I can understand most of the post, yes
as for people understanding mine on the other hand
Maybe?, I hope so?

what do you think Dakka?

Retrias wrote:I don't really know about my english....

I can understand most of the post, yes
as for people understanding mine on the other hand
Maybe?, I hope so?

what do you think Dakka?

I can understand you just fine. Your formatting is a little strange, but your posting is legible.

@Brother SRM
Which part of my formatting is strange? I would like to know, since i want to improve my English(I somehow become better at English after I started posting in forums ).

Retrias wrote:@Brother SRM
Which part of my formatting is strange? I would like to know, since i want to improve my English(I somehow become better at English after I started posting in forums ).

Having your sentences broken up like this.
It is odd to have single sentences broken up by breaks like this.
Most of the time people will just keep typing on the same line.

Instead, having our sentences written like this is the norm. People don't usually have breaks unless they're changing over to a new paragraph. It's really a minor thing, and I'm probably one of the few people who notice it. I just happen to be a stickler for grammar though; don't worry about it.

Just wondering but what counts as Native-English?
If your parents are English or if you were born in England?
In that case, no...

TiB wrote:An advantage to the Netherlands being such a tiny language area is that a majority of the films and television we see, music we listen to and books we read are in english. For a lot of media it just doesn't pay to translate and dub everything like it would have been in larger countries like Germany or France.

Isn't it also because the majority of the Dutch people are well educated? Our geography teacher said it was something like that.

I'm a non-native English speaker.

I am a lawyer and an engineer therefore it makes sense most people do not understand what I am trying to convey.

All kidding aside, I didn't realize that problem until I tried to help a friend filing probate for his deceased parent. I was trying to explain a few things and all that came out of my mouth were legal terms. He had to stop me at the end of every sentence and ask for clarifications. It wasn't easy explaining to people who have little to no legal experience. This is the same when it comes to engineering and technical terms.

loner wrote:Just wondering but what counts as Native-English?
If your parents are English or if you were born in England?

I would imagine that it would be if your parents spoke fluent English to you as a child and English was your first language.

Mannahnin wrote:Erasoketa, if it's any encouragement/consolation for all your hard work, I find your posts very readable. Well done, sir.

Thank you very much! It IS encouraging.

Another thing I've noted is that my own nickname might be too long for most of people. It's not English nor even Spanish, it's a basque word for "raid". I wanted something related to the DE. I should have chose something shorter like... "backstab", "spicky" or "evilgrimdarkpurplepointedear"

SilverMK2 wrote:

loner wrote:Just wondering but what counts as Native-English?
If your parents are English or if you were born in England?

I would imagine that it would be if your parents spoke fluent English to you as a child and English was your first language.

In that case, no...
My parents forced me to watch English movies with English subtitles and spoke regularly English with me.
I started reading English around when I was 10 years old...

I still (hope) think that people understand most of what I say...

As the others pointed out, my biggest problem has never been with ESL speakers, they I cut some slack with weird grammar and spelling...they're learning, and it's not their native tongue, so ah well. I know my grammar in Chinese is horrid, so...judge not lest ye be judged.

The biggest problems I have are with people who speak english natively, but their posts read like their a monkey dancing on the keyboard. I'm not above ripping into such a poster with a vengeance for bad grammar and spelling in a forum post, but I notice the only times I've had to go on a grammar spree has been with people who have an english speaking country's flag next to their name, and never claimed to be ESL speakers.