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The Gk dex states that shield breaker rounds specfically takes away invul saves granted by wargear. Of course, this would work on his cybork body, but I'm concerned about his 2++ WAAAGH!!! save. Ghazkull's save is granted to him by an ability. The weird thing is that the ork codex simple says during the waaagh, ghazkull's save is invunerable. It does not give him a new save, but simply makes his save invulnerable. So question is, exactly how do they react? To me, there are only two logical conclusions:

1) The shield breaker has no effect on ghazkull's Waaagh! save as it is granted by an ability not wargear.

2) Since his 2+ save is from wargear( mega armor), and the waaagh ability makes it invulnerable, he would not benifit from any saves, other than cover saves for the duration of the waaagh!.

what do ya'll think?

Is the wargear invulnerable or is a special ability changing it? Since the waaagh ability states his save is invun, it's just a special rule changing what his save is. It's not wargear giving the invun, though wargear is changed by special rule to do so.

In short, the ability is granting the invun save, not the wargear.

I would say that Ghaz is safe during his Waaagh, but after that he wouldn't have any invuln.

Grey Templar wrote:I would say that Ghaz is safe during his Waaagh, but after that he wouldn't have any invuln.

yes, he would lose his 5++ from his cybork body, but keep his 2+ normal armor save from megaarmor.

It doesn't destroy wargear, it removes the invunerable part. DE ghostplate gives a 4+ or a 6++ to the wearer. If hit by a shieldbreakers it can only be used for a 4+ and loses its 6++ ability.

of course, the vindicares little for either as he is Ap1

Grey Templar wrote:of course, the vindicares little for either as he is Ap1

sure, but it does make gazzy a lot harder to bring down with storm bolters

Exergy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:of course, the vindicares little for either as he is Ap1

sure, but it does make gazzy a lot harder to bring down with storm bolters

And if Ghaz didn't have any save in CC when he uses the Waaagh!, he'd be pretty easy to melee down...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:of course, the vindicares little for either as he is Ap1

sure, but it does make gazzy a lot harder to bring down with storm bolters

And if Ghaz didn't have any save in CC when he uses the Waaagh!, he'd be pretty easy to melee down...

well assuming that its a GK player, i am pretty sure most models have a power weapon, so his invunerable is what matters most. But I guess gazzy could wreck a purtigation squad carrying a bunch of cannons

Not quite correct. Ghazzy can wreck anything on the turn of his Waagh!, not just punny purgators.

Jidmah wrote:Not quite correct. Ghazzy can wreck anything on the turn of his Waagh!, not just punny purgators.

yes on the turn of his waaagh, but then how is a vindy shooting him on the turn of his waagh?

Waagh declared in the opponents shooting phase, as you are allowed to do so. In addition his waaagh lasts a full game turn, so if he is not locked in combat the following player turn the vindy could shoot him.

He actually last for this players turn and the next players turn, so he is not dependant on who went first.

He wouldn't have to shoot Ghaz during the Waaagh! The biggest problem with this argument is that no one actually reads the rule. The shieldbreaker round doen't 'break' anything. Any model allocated with a wound from a shield breaker round loses any invulnerable saves granted by wargear immediatly, and for the rest of the battle.

The point is, his armor save is granted by wargear. Once the Waaaagh!! occurs it makes the save invulnerable. Is this considered a invulnerable save granted by and ablility and hence, not effected by shield breaker rounds, or does he lose his save during the Waaagh!!! because a) it is granted by wargear and b) it is invulnerable? Even using the last interpretation, he would get his armor save back when his Waaagh!!! ends, as it is no longer and invulnerable save and is unaffected by the rule.

EDIT: dang it, critical typo. He WOUND'NT have to be shot during his waaagh. I changed it above.

In other words, he retains his 2++ until the beginning of his next turn. Right?

yes, but he wouldn't have a 5++ anymore.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:In other words, he retains his 2++ until the beginning of his next turn. Right?

You can call Ghazghkull's Waagh! during an opponent's turn, so no. Simply the turn the Waagh! is called and the next one.

So in other words, he retains his 2++ until the next turn, right?

Until the end of the next player turn, right.