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I play my brother, who plays Tau, all the time. We usually play a small 500 pt battle, with him using a 12-Tau Fire Warrior Team (pulse rifles and carbines, i dont remember how many of each), a Crisis Commander with a cyclic ion blaster, and a plasma rifle (iridium? armor too), and the dreaded TAU HAMMERHEAD. My fairly little Grey Knight "team" consists of 5 Grey Knight Interceptors and a Land Raider Crusader (i have no idea why i bothered to get that instead of a land raider). The problem: my land raider crusader (LRC) always explodes in the first couple turns (ah, those pesky 6's) which leaves my Interceptors out in the open to be picked off by pulse rifles/carbines, ion blasters, and the dreaded railgun. My hope is that you, the people, will help me come up with a tactic to take out his Hammerhead. (I have no troop choices because they seemed ineffective to the battle at hand, and i have no money to buy more Grey Knights)

If... you have no troop choices, then you are playing an illegal list.

That being said... I think the multi-weapon space monkeys are the answer here.

You can't just CHOOSE to have no troops choices. That's not how this game works. He also can't CHOOSE to have only one troops choice. Again, not how the game works.

You BOTH need to have:

1 unit from the HQ section of your codex (IE an inquisitor, a librarian etc.)

2 units from the troops section of your codex (IE Fire warriors or kroot, or PAGKs or even Terminators for you, but probably shy away from that at 500 points)

In addition, I believe he MUST take at least one unit of fire warriors, as they are listed as a 1+ unit in his dex.

If you want that Land Raider in there, you're going to need to take something like an Inquisitor with henchmen and stuff, since at 500 points a Land Raider only leaves you with 250 points to work with. Frankly, at 500 points a Land Raider is a terrible choice. Most troops out there can pack at least ONE melta gun, never mind a Hammerhead, and against Tau you are pretty much just crossing your fingers that it doesn't blow you right to hell turn one or two.

I don't really see why you even NEED a transport with Grey Knights all able to take those teleporter thingies. A 30 inch Shunt move will get you all up in his grill on turn 2. Just take 2 or 3 units of PAGKs with a librarian, shunt up next to him on turn 1, turn 2 assault, ta da, you just beat tau. They are really that simple to kill. Get into CC and you win.

Sadly, 500 point games aren't quite balanced. The Force Organization Chart (1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 each of Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support) gets weird when playing games that low, and certain armies just can't do much of anything.

That being said (yeah, totally copying Cottonjaw), I think the solution is to find some way to get into his face quickly. Personal teleporters, perhaps. Can Interceptors Deep Strike? Possibly an Orbital Strike to take out the tank. But mostly, don't worry too much about killing the tank, if you can get into close combat instead; while you're killing him in combat (and you will be if you're in combat), it can't shoot you.

Oh, and: reevaluate how much terrain is on the board. If any. An open wasteland of a table is going to be a Tau's wet dream. Insist on some forests or a suspiciously sneaker-shaped mountain or silos that look amazingly like Mountain Dew cans or something. Anything to break up the shooting range.

I guess that's about it for things that don't involve buying more models.

If nothing else, count the Crusader as having a Multi-Melta; I know they can take one. Gives you some nice tank hunting ability at close range, which is where the crusader should be anyway,

Don't try to outshoot Hammerhead at low points level. Get something fast (jump infantry) or something deep striking. Assault the Hammerhead, or get close enough for a melta shot and also to negate the Disruption pod.

Don't take Land Raider at 500 point level...

Illegal lists aside, your grey knights can hurt the hammerhead in assault, recall you always hit on back armour.

Perhaps deep strike behind it, shoot it with a psycannon on rear armour, couple of S7 shots on back armour has good chance to do some damage.

So the main problem is, instead of making an actual army, you bought a freaking land raider and tried to use it in a 500p game. Next time maybe construct a legal army, and don't put all your points and money into one tank?

ph34r wrote:So the main problem is, instead of making an actual army, you bought a freaking land raider and tried to use it in a 500p game. Next time maybe construct a legal army, and don't put all your points and money into one tank?

No No No. I used to play the DA, (a legal army i had), but then converted to Grey Knights, so i borught over the land raider from my DA to add to my Grey Knights. As for the illegal army, STOP IT!!!!!! I KNOW I HAVE AN ILLEGAL ARMY! Please keep in mind that these are "mock battles", just to get me comfortable with the rules and such (i still dont know much about specific rules), so please STOP COMMENTING ON MY ILLEGAL ARMY.

As a Tau dude you can kill our tanks of any kind by getting behind the disruption pod, or melta bombs they always kill me.

Uhh how do you get 500 points with oonly a Land Raider and 5 grey Knights? I think you kinda short changeed yourself there, if these battles are mock battle then why not then use some of your DA and pretend that they're grey knights proivding that you point them out correct.

Darkjediben wrote:You can't just CHOOSE to have no troops choices. That's not how this game works. He also can't CHOOSE to have only one troops choice. Again, not how the game works.

Not really. If the two of them want to play with just whatever models they have handy,and they both agree, there's nothing wrong with that.

Just as if folks want to play a 400pt game of 40k in 40 minutes that floated around the net, folks can do that.

Commissar Nemesio wrote:I play my brother, who plays Tau, all the time. We usually play a small 500 pt battle, with him using a 12-Tau Fire Warrior Team (pulse rifles and carbines, i dont remember how many of each), a Crisis Commander with a cyclic ion blaster, and a plasma rifle (iridium? armor too), and the dreaded TAU HAMMERHEAD. My fairly little Grey Knight "team" consists of 5 Grey Knight Interceptors and a Land Raider Crusader (i have no idea why i bothered to get that instead of a land raider). The problem: my land raider crusader (LRC) always explodes in the first couple turns (ah, those pesky 6's) which leaves my Interceptors out in the open to be picked off by pulse rifles/carbines, ion blasters, and the dreaded railgun. My hope is that you, the people, will help me come up with a tactic to take out his Hammerhead. (I have no troop choices because they seemed ineffective to the battle at hand, and i have no money to buy more Grey Knights)

first do you even know how to play the game????? interceptors are fast attack not troops you need 2 troops and one hq which none of you have. If were going to help you actually make valid army lists. i dont think he could fit a hammerhead in. 5{5|>- |\|{} [} oo5 ?

Commissar Nemesio wrote:Please keep in mind that these are "mock battles", just to get me comfortable with the rules and such (i still dont know much about specific rules),

That's a horrible way to get comfortable with the rules.

You're very limited by what you can do, because you're fielding next to nothing. This is the main weakness of GK, they have awesome units, but very few in number.

By taking a Land Raider at 500pts, you're totally stuck by having almost nothing to play with.

For a long term solution, I'd suggest you buy more models. But, for the short term, convince your brother that your LRC should count as a basic LR. That should give you something to use against the hammerhead.

Commissar Nemesio wrote:

ph34r wrote:So the main problem is, instead of making an actual army, you bought a freaking land raider and tried to use it in a 500p game. Next time maybe construct a legal army, and don't put all your points and money into one tank?

No No No. I used to play the DA, (a legal army i had), but then converted to Grey Knights, so i borught over the land raider from my DA to add to my Grey Knights. As for the illegal army, STOP IT!!!!!! I KNOW I HAVE AN ILLEGAL ARMY! Please keep in mind that these are "mock battles", just to get me comfortable with the rules and such (i still dont know much about specific rules), so please STOP COMMENTING ON MY ILLEGAL ARMY.

A hammerhead should be no problem to destroy by using your "shunt" move from interceptors to get behind it and just shoot it with psycannons.

Fafnir wrote:

Commissar Nemesio wrote:Please keep in mind that these are "mock battles", just to get me comfortable with the rules and such (i still dont know much about specific rules),

That's a horrible way to get comfortable with the rules.

Please stay on topic.

Then play the right game. You can't come expecting us to help you when you're not even playing by the rules of the game. It's like asking for poker advice at a chess club.

Commissar Nemesio wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Commissar Nemesio wrote:Please keep in mind that these are "mock battles", just to get me comfortable with the rules and such (i still dont know much about specific rules),

That's a horrible way to get comfortable with the rules.

Please stay on topic.

You know, you are new here. This is a tactics forum, and the people here play 40k, usually by the basic rules, usually competitively. You would know this by lurking more. Asking for advice on an illegal and poorly thought out list is just asking for this sort of reaction.

How to destroy a tau hammerhead: Use a legal list that doesn't use their points needlessly on useless transports for units you don't have. A LRC is an expensive transport for expensive assault units. Your army doesn't have any units that can actually ride in it. Its fire power is meant to be close range anti infantry, to support the assault cargo. Your opponent also plays an illegal list with a lack of soft targets that matter.

If you don't want to listen to this simple advice, then why did you even ask for help here?

Fafnir wrote:Then play the right game. You can't come expecting us to help you when you're not even playing by the rules of the game. It's like asking for poker advice at a chess club.

I learn from experience

It's like asking a soccer coach to teach you how to score goals, but then saying you don't play soccer using the official rules, and that you play that you can pick it up, you can kick people's heads in and that goals don't count if you kicked the ball.

You cannot learn how to play if you are not playing by the right rules, experience means sweet f.a. if your 'experience' of playing wasn't correct.

notabot187 wrote:You know, you are new here. This is a tactics forum, and the people here play 40k, usually by the basic rules, usually competitively. You would know this by lurking more. Asking for advice on an illegal and poorly thought out list is just asking for this sort of reaction.

I disagree, notabot. I think the guys freaking out over his illegal FoC are over reacting and being *really* unhelpful. Posters are not clearly reading the situation correctly:
It's two brothers playing. With the models they have.

Sheesh. Lighten up everybody. And maybe give the advice he's asking for instead of being the GW Rules Police like ex-Police Dan Aykroyd and Bill Murray. "Freeze! You're FoC is illegal! KNOCK it OFF!" Or something like that.

@Commissar Nemesio:
Different armies 'peak' at different point levels. Right now, tau rock at low point games and most MEqs, including GKS, don't get hit their stride until 1500 0r so.

You are on the opposite end of that spectrum, having a LRC in a 500 point list. It's half your points so you're at a severe disadvantage. That's why he keeps creaming you.

So, use the "shunt" option to DS a unit up close and load up on as many meltagun options for your unit. Teleport in under the Railhead's DisPod's protective bubble of 12" and pop the tank close up. That squad will take heavy fire in return. In the meantime, have your LRC in Reserve. Once it walks on, the RG should be gone and the LRC will reign like a god.

And to answer this:

Commissar Nemesio wrote:5 Grey Knight Interceptors and a Land Raider Crusader (i have no idea why i bothered to get that instead of a land raider). and i have no money to buy more Grey Knights)

The LRC is a great tank. I haven't been through the GK 'dex, but I'm sure there are termies? Well the LRC is a offensive beast and a great transport for terminators. Don't be sorry you got it.

Just kick yourself for getting it *first*.

Your next three purchases should be the troop boxes and meltagun bits, unless GKs have some anti-Tank weapon I'm not aware of. The GKs are slightly better than average marines in power armor, but you'll still need them. So, birthdays, holidays, ebay, etc.

If the OP isn't playing regular 40k, then I don't see how he's going to get any help here. Tactics questions are already subjective enough when people understand the same set of rules and scenarios. It's damn near impossible to give good advice when the situation is not governed by a clear ruleset.

This question is like asking how to stop a Knight in Chess, with the caveat that all the pieces move differently.

Now, with that out of the way... A good strategy would be to follow everyone else's advice, drop the LRC, and shunt behind the Hammerhead and unload into it with psycannons, assuming that you can fit such a unit into your incomprehensible ruleset.

Also, Brother Erekose, GK units cannot take meltaguns.

Xca|iber wrote:Also, Brother Erekose, GK units cannot take meltaguns.

*No* MGs? I suspected something like that as I saw not MGs in the last two lists I'd faced (last night and a tourney on Sat). Thanks for the info, Xcaliber.

Ick. Given this, Commissar Nemesio, you're hosed until you spend cash and build up your army. The shunting tactic will be real thin, given PsyCan ammo is ... err, *tries to remember ... STR7? * needing 6's to glance the nose of a HH?

Otherwise, stick with what you've probably been doing:
Deploy as close as possible.
Turn 1 Move up, pop-smoke.
Turn 2: Move up again, hop 'em out and assault the Railhead.

This will get old (as I'm guessing is already the case) fast.

Nothing much else for it. Buy more 5 man squads. 3 more before much else ... unless some one more GK savvy wants to push the Venerable x2AtuoCan Dread? I already despise those things, after only two games against them. Psy ammo on an AutoCan.

Brothererekose wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:Also, Brother Erekose, GK units cannot take meltaguns.

*No* MGs? I suspected something like that as I saw not MGs in the last two lists I'd faced (last night and a tourney on Sat). Thanks for the info, Xcaliber.

Ick. Given this, Commissar Nemesio, you're hosed until you spend cash and build up your army. The shunting tactic will be real thin, given PsyCan ammo is ... err, *tries to remember ... STR7? * needing 6's to glance the nose of a HH?

Otherwise, stick with what you've probably been doing:
Deploy as close as possible.
Turn 1 Move up, pop-smoke.
Turn 2: Move up again, hop 'em out and assault the Railhead.

This will get old (as I'm guessing is already the case) fast.

Nothing much else for it. Buy more 5 man squads. 3 more before much else ... unless some one more GK savvy wants to push the Venerable x2AtuoCan Dread? I already despise those things, after only two games against them. Psy ammo on an AutoCan.

Its actually impossible for a psycannon to glance AV 13. It either pens or does nothing, due to rending.

Illegal Army. lol