In incredible Irony, italian pro gaza/hamas activist killed by even more extreme muslim sect

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**ShumaGorath**

The Palestinian militant group that governs Gaza, Hamas, has condemned the murder of Italian pro-Palestinian activist Vittorio Arrigoni.

A Hamas spokesman described the killing as "against the humanity... of the Palestinian people".

Mr Arrigoni was found dead hours after being seized on Thursday by a radical group in conflict with Hamas.

Police said he was found hanged in a Gaza City apartment and two people have been arrested.

'Awful' killing
Mr Arrigoni, 36, was seized by Salafist radicals, an Islamist movement that considers Hamas as too moderate, BBC Gaza correspondent Jon Donnison says.

The Salafists had threatened to execute Mr Arrigoni by 1400 GMT on Friday unless several prisoners, including their leader, Sheikh Abu Walid al-Maqdasi, were released. Sheikh Maqdasi was arrested by Hamas police last month in Gaza City.

In a video posted on YouTube, Mr Arrigoni appeared to have been beaten and his eyes were covered with thick black tape.

A caption on the video read: "The Italian hostage entered our land only to spread corruption." The video called Italy "the infidel state".

It is not clear why Mr Arrigoni was killed before the given deadline, but the Hamas interior ministry said he had died soon after being abducted.

Hamas officials said two people had been arrested and others were being sought, but gave no further details.

Interior ministry spokesman Ehab al-Ghussein said Mr Arrigoni was killed "in an awful way".

Mr Ghussein told reporters that the security forces had been led to the house in Gaza City after a tip-off.

He described the killing as a "heinous crime which has nothing to do with our values, our religion, our customs and traditions", and vowed to hunt down and bring to justice those who were involved.

Hamas spokesman Salama Marouf said the killing went "against the humanity and against the custom and tradition of the Palestinian people".

About 2,000 people in Gaza attended a rally to protest Mr Arrigoni's killing.

'Humble man'
In Rome, the Italian foreign ministry expressed "its deep horror over the barbaric murder".

Italian diplomats have been in touch with Israel regarding the transfer of the body from the Gaza Strip, possibly on Sunday, an Israeli official has told the BBC.

His mother said he was a humble man.

"He never hung out with the powerful, he never went to the 'palaces,' if that's what you can call those [headquarters] of Hamas," Egidia Beretta said.

"He had two rooms in this apartment house that overlooked the port," she told Italian TV.

Friends of the activist gathered outside the hospital where his body had been taken on Friday morning.

"He came from across the world, left his country and family and his entire life and came here to break the siege, and we kill him? Why?" asked one of his friends.

Mr Arrigoni was a member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) and had been in Gaza for several years.

Huwaida Arraf, a co-founder of the ISM, said he was very well-known in the territory and had a "dynamic, humanitarian personality".

"I even thought that whoever has him is going to see his humanity and just let him go, so when I heard what happened to him I was totally shocked," she told the AFP news agency.

Hamas had been credited with eliminating the threat of kidnapping in Gaza until his abduction.

Mr Arrigoni was the first foreigner kidnapped in Gaza since BBC journalist Alan Johnston was abducted in 2007.

Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit has been held in Gaza since June 2006. He was captured in a raid into Israel by Hamas and other militant groups.

Awful event perpetrated by awful people. Also ironic.

**Frazzled**

Excellent.

**Bastion of Mediocrity**

I had no idea that Hamas and Al Queda did not like each other. Shame that he died fighting for another people's rights (even if I don't neccessarily agree with his political position), it is still a shame. The more I learn about the middle east, the less I understand it.

**ShumaGorath**

Bastion of Mediocrity wrote:I had no idea that Hamas and Al Queda did not like each other. Shame that he died fighting for another people's rights (even if I don't neccessarily agree with his political position), it is still a shame. The more I learn about the middle east, the less I understand it.

American news does a really good job misrepresenting muslim groups as being homogenous. In reality they are extremely fragmented and typically hesitant to work alongside eachother if not outright hostile to one another.

**Bastion of Mediocrity**

That makes since, when Christianity was more "terrorist" (killing because of sect Anglicans killing Catholics, Catholics killing Huguenots, etc.) being Christian was not homogenous.

Sad thing is that he was probably muslim himself, and I am pretty sure the Koran is not forgiving about killing believers . . . gotta grieve for the family.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:Excellent.

Care to explain why you think it's excellent that an innocent man was brutally murdered? I wouldn't of asked this but its been several hours since I reported your post and it's readily apparent that the report button goes to a mailbox that no one reads.

**Mannahnin**

It's not excellent. I suspect Frazzled was trying to be humorous, in an extremely tasteless way.

Alert Mod button hits go where all mods can see them. The vast majority of actions taken by moderators in response to Alerts are not visible to anyone but the member/s who made the post.

**Melissia**

Bastion of Mediocrity wrote:That makes since, when Christianity was more "terrorist" (killing because of sect Anglicans killing Catholics, Catholics killing Huguenots, etc.) being Christian was not homogenous.

Sad thing is that he was probably muslim himself, and I am pretty sure the Koran is not forgiving about killing believers . . . gotta grieve for the family.

It still is in places.

**mattyrm**

Im not really seeing how Frazzled comment was in "extremely" poor taste? I mean, yeah, torturing people like that is horrific, Im always concerned about needless torture, but a bit of death doesnt really bother me, how innocent was he if he was an activitst for Hamas? An internationally recognised terrorist orginisation?

Im a proud British citizen, and Hamas as a whole was designated a terrorist organization by the UK Government in 2003 with no distinction made between its military and non-military wings. Thats good enough for me.

If this man was such an ardent supporter of them, then why should I be concerned he got rubbed out?

I find the hypocrisy of the anti Isreali lot to be so ridiculous its actually amusing. Should we all be "sad" when OBL shuffles off if he gets beat up a bit first? (If he already hasn't)

No no, then the same Americans will gleefully pump their fists with joy.

I mean, I would as well, I hope the mother fether is 6 feet under as we speak, but at least im not being a hypocrite from the get go.

**Medium of Death**

*Golfclap*

It's a credit to the intellect of the extremist group that did this really.

Apparently Hamas sees this act as a 'direct confrontation' of their leadership.

I would imagine these Salafist chaps shall be making a swift departure from the holy land courtesy of Hamas in the not too distant future.

**Monster Rain**

mattyrm wrote:Im not really seeing how Frazzled comment was in "extremely" poor taste? I mean, yeah, torturing people like that is horrific, Im always concerned about needless torture, but a bit of death doesnt really bother me, how innocent was he if he was an activitst for Hamas? An internationally recognised terrorist orginisation?

I must agree.

I can only hope that this will serve as a wake-up call for others who commiserate with these animals.

_______________

On an unrelated note I have thought better of feeding a troll.

**ShumaGorath**

If this man was such an ardent supporter of them, then why should I be concerned he got rubbed out?

Theoretically because you're a human being and not some sort of bloodthirsty anti Arab English imperialist who loves his country and hates reading THE ACTUAL ARTICLE ITSELF. When you say gak like that it reminds me why I don't actually like talking to ex military people. It robs them of their ability to think with compassion when its something they were trained to think wasn't human.

**sexiest_hero**

The innocent don't deserve to die regardless of what they believe.

**Monster Rain**

ShumaGorath wrote:When you say gak like that it reminds me why I don't actually like talking to ex military people. It robs them of their ability to think with compassion when its something they were trained to think wasn't human.

Make sweeping generalizations, much?

**ShumaGorath**

Monster Rain wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Im not really seeing how Frazzled comment was in "extremely" poor taste? I mean, yeah, torturing people like that is horrific, Im always concerned about needless torture, but a bit of death doesnt really bother me, how innocent was he if he was an activitst for Hamas? An internationally recognised terrorist orginisation?

I must agree.

I can only hope that this will serve as a wake-up call for others who commiserate with these animals.

_______________

On an unrelated note I have thought better of feeding a troll.

Monsters Rain, if you had even the slightest, tiniest idea what you were talking about, about anything relating to hamas, gaza, or the Palestinians at all, I would be shocked. Hamas is a political organization. It hires teachers, the police, fireman. It's the government. It's not a bunch of child eaters in a fething cave.

**Monster Rain**

sexiest_hero wrote:The innocent don't deserve to die regardless of what they belive.

Though I do think that this should go without saying, QFT.

**ShumaGorath**

Monster Rain wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:When you say gak like that it reminds me why I don't actually like talking to ex military people. It robs them of their ability to think with compassion when its something they were trained to think wasn't human.

Make sweeping generalizations, much?

Says the guy that thinks hamas is an organization composed entirely of "animals". The dude was a palestinian sympathizer, I know you didn't read the article because it's somehow beneath you. But acting in a cavalier way to a brutal murder because he sympathized with a political cause that you (incredibly ignorantly) think is a terrorist army is still pretty wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
sexiest_hero wrote:The innocent don't deserve to die regardless of what they belive.

Though I do think that this should go without saying, QFT.

Monster Rain wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Im not really seeing how Frazzled comment was in "extremely" poor taste? I mean, yeah, torturing people like that is horrific, Im always concerned about needless torture, but a bit of death doesnt really bother me, how innocent was he if he was an activitst for Hamas? An internationally recognised terrorist orginisation?

I must agree.

I can only hope that this will serve as a wake-up call for others who commiserate with these animals.

Oh man. So you don't care that he was killed, but don't think the innocent should die? I love the cognitive dissonance of the ignorant. And don't worry, even though you edited out the post where you called hamas (and palestinians in general) animals I'll keep it alive and well.

**Monster Rain**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:When you say gak like that it reminds me why I don't actually like talking to ex military people. It robs them of their ability to think with compassion when its something they were trained to think wasn't human.

Make sweeping generalizations, much?

Says the guy that thinks hamas is an organization composed entirely of baby killing terrorists.

Oh, okay. Hamas isn't a terrorist organization.

Fascinating what I learn in the OT forum. I can't wait to read about how you're being unjustly persecuted by moderators after you flame out again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:Oh man. So you don't care that he was killed, but don't think the innocent should die? I love the cognitive dissonance of the ignorant. And don't worry, even though you edited out the post where you called hamas (and palestinians in general) animals I'll keep it alive and well.

Don't type angry, bro.

I think if you read my posts without being quite so reactionary it wouldn't be so dissonant. Also, note how I haven't responded to any of your insults in kind. Go outside for a bit, friend.

**ShumaGorath**

Monster Rain wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:When you say gak like that it reminds me why I don't actually like talking to ex military people. It robs them of their ability to think with compassion when its something they were trained to think wasn't human.

Make sweeping generalizations, much?

Says the guy that thinks hamas is an organization composed entirely of baby killing terrorists.

Oh, okay. Hamas isn't a terrorist organization.

Fascinating what I learn in the OT forum. I can't wait to read about how you're being unjustly persecuted by moderators after you flame out again.

Israeli government kills several thousand Palestinians in a decade = not terrorist
Israelis demolish Palestinian homes and murder civilians = not terrorist
Israelis attack aid convoys and murder civilians with guns to "send a message" = not terrorist

24 people are killed in rocket attacks in an entire decade = ENTIRE GOVERNMENT IS TERRORISTS INCLUDING THE TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, AND FIREMEN THAT ARE IN THE PARTY.

**Monster Rain**

ShumaGorath wrote:Israeli government kills several thousand Palestinians in a decade = not terrorist
Israelis demolish Palestinian homes and murder civilians = not terrorist
Israelis attack aid convoys and murder civilians with guns to "send a message" = not terrorist

24 people are killed in rocket attacks in an entire decade = ENTIRE GOVERNMENT IS TERRORISTS INCLUDING THE TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, AND FIREMEN THAT ARE IN THE PARTY.

Oh, this again.

Actually, now that you've typed in caps I can see that your point is valid. You've changed my mind completely. Wait, no, on second thought I think I'll keep agreeing with Canada and the EU that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

**ShumaGorath**

Monster Rain wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Israeli government kills several thousand Palestinians in a decade = not terrorist
Israelis demolish Palestinian homes and murder civilians = not terrorist
Israelis attack aid convoys and murder civilians with guns to "send a message" = not terrorist

24 people are killed in rocket attacks in an entire decade = ENTIRE GOVERNMENT IS TERRORISTS INCLUDING THE TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, AND FIREMEN THAT ARE IN THE PARTY.

Oh, this again.

Actually, now that you've typed in caps I can see that your point is valid. You've changed my mind completely.

Your mind is impossible to change because your opinions are illogical. You get shouted at by people a lot because you say incredibly offensive and ignorant things in incredibly cavalier and certain ways and never, never, never actually engage in a factual or intellectual manner with other people on this forum. I'm not going to galbraithe myself into destruction, but know that you're a massive and offensive troll.

Wait, no, on second thought I think I'll keep agreeing with Canada and the EU that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Lovely. I'll keep on thinking with the organizations that weren't pressured and lobbied by a post election bush into labeling a nations entire democratically elected government as a terrorist organization idiotically. I mean, if the EU had a foreign policy at all I'm sure they would change it and the last time canada could argue with a republican was like 1972.

**Monster Rain**

Nevermind.

Delete this, please.

**Medium of Death**

I do despair of the whole 'Israel vs. Palestine' debate. Both sides are as bad as each other in many respects. However, seeing as Israel is clearly the 'superior' power it should be doing more to remedy the situation rather than exacerbate it.

Did anything ever come of those reports (think it may have been courtesy of wikileaks) that revealed that it is Israel, not Palestine, who are the ones holding up the peace process?

**Monster Rain**

Medium of Death wrote:I do despair of the whole 'Israel vs. Palestine' debate.

I think most people do.

The problem is that some people hear "Hamas is a Terrorist Organization" as "Israel has carte blanche to do whatever they want, in my opinion."

**ShumaGorath**

Monster Rain wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:I do despair of the whole 'Israel vs. Palestine' debate.

I think most people do.

The problem is that some people hear "Hamas is a Terrorist Organization" as "Israel has carte blanche to do whatever they want, in my opinion."

When you basically dismiss the horrid murder of an italian aid worker it kinda knocks the conversation up a notch.

**Monster Rain**

ShumaGorath wrote:Oh man. So you don't care that he was killed, but don't think the innocent should die? I love the cognitive dissonance of the ignorant. And don't worry, even though you edited out the post where you called hamas (and palestinians in general) animals I'll keep it alive and well.

See, now you're either lying or just mistaken.

I never edited any part of my post concerning my opinion of Hamas in fact I stand by it, and never called Palestinians in general animals. Internationally recognized terrorist organizations are low on my list of people to think fondly of.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:I do despair of the whole 'Israel vs. Palestine' debate.

I think most people do.

The problem is that some people hear "Hamas is a Terrorist Organization" as "Israel has carte blanche to do whatever they want, in my opinion."

When you basically dismiss the horrid murder of an italian aid worker it kinda knocks the conversation up a notch.

I said I hope it serves as a wake-up call to people who commiserate with terrorists. You know, so that it doesn't happen again.

I don't know why that's so upsetting to you.

**ShumaGorath**

I said I hope it serves as a wake-up call to people who commiserate with terrorists.

I don't know why that's so upsetting to you.

Because he was an aid worker working to improve conditions in palestine. Saying that because he dealt with the defacto government there means his case should be a "warning to others who work with terrorists" is insulting. You're saying no one should help these people. This is what I mean by you don't consider your opinions past their face value.

**Manchu**

Shuma wrote:I'm not going to galbraithe myself into destruction . . .

Classic.

While I'm here, deep breaths all around please. Walk away from the computer and come back to argue like the gentlemen scholars I know ye are. I know I say this a lot but it's true.

**Monster Rain**

ShumaGorath wrote:Because he was an aid worker working to improve conditions in palestine. Saying that because he dealt with the defacto government there means his case should be a "warning to others who work with terrorists" is insulting. You're saying no one should help these people. This is what I mean by you don't consider your opinions past their face value.

Sure I do.

Also, there are ways to improve conditions in Palestine without becoming a political partisan.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Shuma wrote:I'm not going to galbraithe myself into destruction . . .
Classic.

While I'm here, deep breaths all around please. Walk away from the computer and come back to argue like the gentlemen scholars I know ye are. I know I say this a lot but it's true.

By your word.

_______________

To clarify my position on the general Israeli/Palestinian conflict since this foolishness may have muddied the waters what with the inference that you can't be anti-Hamas without being pro-Israel:

Both sides are guilty of wrongdoing, and both sides should chill the feth out. There now. Two state solution for the win.

**ShumaGorath**

Sure I do.

Also, there's ways to improve conditions in Palestine without becoming a political partisan.

Not when you're working inside the country. Thats like saying you can be an aid worker in the U.S. but totally avoid dealing with the U.S. government. The dude lived there. He had no choice in the matter. Hell, Hamas said that the murder was a brutal and inhumane act perpetrated by awful people and that he hurt the very humanity of palestine. They weren't the ones who killed him, they were the ones that run the police stations and who collect the taxes.

If you considered your opinions in even the slightest you would never say that it was a warning to people in the country "dealing with hamas". That makes no sense. You can't just "wish" the plight of the Palestinians to go away from your desk. The aid agencies that work with those people have to deal with hamas because they aren't regime changing military fleets. It's unrealistic to think otherwise.

To clarify my position since this foolishness may have muddied the waters what with the inference that you can't be anti-Hamas without being pro-Israel:

That inference was just your tone. What the issue here is is what you and matty directly said. Something that implies neither of you think about the logistics of things or that you just don't actually think the people there need aid.