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I am really intrigued about their disappearance. I know there are a few hints in Prospero Burns but is there any actual fluff about them?

It would be awesome if GW did a future campaign based on one/both of their returns to the 40k series and would they be loyalist or traitors?

Nope there's no significant fluff about them. They only canon thing about them is they've been stricken from Imperial records.

It's put in there so players can develop their own fluff about them.

For instance, I made one where the Primarch of the XI Legion became a Daemon Prince of Malal and was so crazy that he attacked both Chaos and Loyalist forces during the Heresy. Being a tard of good ol'Malal I try to fit him in where I can. He still lives!

First heretic has some info too. My interpretation of it is that the primarchs, when found, were corrupted in some way, and were killed. At least in first heretic it's strongly suggested that at least one of their legions was then absorbed by the ultras.

Both legions are full of female marines. As to not ruffle anybodys' feathers GW keeps it a secret.

The second and eleventh are there as mystery. Their entrys never had any info, just all info erased.
In the heresy considering his forces at hand,Dorn once mentioned them, and malcador replied "they are lost to us".
The HH series goes on:

- Lorgar was said to have lost brother before and whined about it.
- to remember the lost ones was forbidden and an oath was sworn to the Emperor.
- where a complete set of statues was at Terra once, the 2 lost ones were removed,
- hints that it was not the first time the wolves were sent when they hunted the T-sons
- hints that the marines were merged with the ultramarines, ( thus maybe just the primarchs killed and the marines kept? )

PS: the Emperor had 20 SONS, so don't even try to turn this into another "we want badly converted abominations" thread.

1hadhq wrote:

PS: the Emperor had 20 SONS, so don't even try to turn this into another "we want badly converted abominations" thread.

Well, 21 with the Alpha Legion Primarchs.

One of the biggest mysteries of 40k, what happened with those two Legions and Primarchs... maybe some day we'll find out more.

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:One of the biggest mysteries of 40k, what happened with those two Legions and Primarchs... maybe some day we'll find out more.

We won't. As said above, GW keeps them mysterious so players can try to create them themselves.

The problem is everyone comes up with Legions even more mary sue than Ultramarines.

@-Loki- On that note... you have to wonder what the hell they did that was so damned bad that they managed to get all records of their existences erased from the history books.
I mean, the Chaos Legions became Traitors and Heretics, and yet there is some knowledge of them.
So how bad do you have to be to have all records of your existence totally expunged?

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:@-Loki- On that note... you have to wonder what the hell they did that was so damned bad that they managed to get all records of their existences erased from the history books.
I mean, the Chaos Legions became Traitors and Heretics, and yet there is some knowledge of them.
So how bad do you have to be to have all records of your existence totally expunged?

Well..Both legions were destroyed in some way (people who dont realize this are ignorant ...We know for a fact that at least one of the legions were completely destroyed via Russ and his wolves (It's to heavily hinted at in the HH books to ignore) And what the TS did, even though it was good intentions, directly effected the emperor and his plans...Perhaps (lets just say the 7th legion for simplicity's sake) that the Primarch's and his marines of the 7th legion decided their 'ideals' and 'intentions' were better then that of the emperor, and in so made it clear they wanted the emperor dead...or some sort of other heresy like that (united council rather then an all-controlling monarch) and maybe crossed the line? I can't really think of much more, or else the Primarch's would be a lot more knowledgeable about the effects of chaos (if it did have something to do with that)...
Perhaps then that 11th legion's Primarch was corrupt...hence his execution...which would lead his legion to cause the swelling ranks of the Ultramarines...
That just kinda seems like the most logical conclusion...

It's completely possible they either went to Chaos or at least went traitor/renegade. Remember, they were on a much smaller scale, much easier for the Emperor to cover up. So just expunge their records quietly.

The Heresy was galactic scale conflict, and the Emperor himself wound up nearly biting it in a full blown invasion of Earth. This is much harder to cover up, and they instead of trying to, they just decided to make them Excommunicate Traitoris, and leave the other two legions expunged.

it's also implied that the two legions may have fought each other

I'm gonna have to get the Horus Heresy books... So much I've missed.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:it's also implied that the two legions may have fought each other

Where do you get that impression from?

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:@-Loki- On that note... you have to wonder what the hell they did that was so damned bad that they managed to get all records of their existences erased from the history books.
I mean, the Chaos Legions became Traitors and Heretics, and yet there is some knowledge of them.
So how bad do you have to be to have all records of your existence totally expunged?

They were probably only expunged from imperial records so the great crusade could carry on smoothly.

It is implied that many of the other legions had to defeat the second and eleventh legion.

I think it is a mystery that we will never find the answer to, I doubt even gw know. It just seems like somthing to add in order to build up a more mysterious backround. Either that or gw couldn't come up with another colour scheme for 2 more legion's

bthom37 wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:it's also implied that the two legions may have fought each other

Where do you get that impression from?

the Dark king and the Lightning tower

One flat out refused to join the Emperor and as a result was destroyed. The other probably joined the Emperor then had second thoughts, so Russ was sent to completely erase them. Since its implied that they fought, I'd the initially loyal one was there when first contact was made, and they fought, and the loyal one defeated his brother. He was guilt ridden, so turned from the Emperor, so Russ did a Thousand Sons on them.

iproxtaco wrote:One flat out refused to join the Emperor and as a result was destroyed. The other probably joined the Emperor then had second thoughts, so Russ was sent to completely erase them. Since its implied that they fought, I'd the initially loyal one was there when first contact was made, and they fought, and the loyal one defeated his brother. He was guilt ridden, so turned from the Emperor, so Russ did a Thousand Sons on them.

Uh, actually we know practically nothing about them.

The only thing that we know Russ did in his role as "Executioner" was that the Wolves completely erased a world from existence.

From what we've seen in terms of the vague hints about the "Lost Primarchs", they didn't survive the scattering and their Marines were rolled into the remaining Legions.

Kanluwen wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:One flat out refused to join the Emperor and as a result was destroyed. The other probably joined the Emperor then had second thoughts, so Russ was sent to completely erase them. Since its implied that they fought, I'd the initially loyal one was there when first contact was made, and they fought, and the loyal one defeated his brother. He was guilt ridden, so turned from the Emperor, so Russ did a Thousand Sons on them.

Uh, actually we know practically nothing about them.

The only thing that we know Russ did in his role as "Executioner" was that the Wolves completely erased a world from existence.

From what we've seen in terms of the vague hints about the "Lost Primarchs", they didn't survive the scattering and their Marines were rolled into the remaining Legions.

I know what I said isn't fact, just speculation, I'll add that at the bottom. The legion who's Primarch refused to join the Imperium was probably the one who was enrolled in the Ultramarines, whereas the other was completely erased.

By the by, it's been nowhere implied that the two Lost Primarchs "fought".

All we saw was that a "great tragedy befell them".

Kanluwen wrote:By the by, it's been nowhere implied that the two Lost Primarchs "fought".

All we saw was that a "great tragedy befell them".

Never read Dark King and The Lightning Tower, but someone in this thread stated that it implied they 'fought' so I took their word for it.

My two theories


1) One of the legions had a Pariah for a primarch.
After the primarch was rejoined with his legion, the rest of the legion developed their pariah powers as well.
Their anti-warp presence was so powerful it blocked warp travel.
This trapped the Emperor, the Space Wolves and the Pariah legion in the same system.
The emperor made the space wolves kill the Pariahs, so he could leave the system and return to the crusade.
For such a dishonorable fate, he order all records of this legion removed.

2) The other primarch after being cast through the warp, landed on an eldar Maiden Wold.
The world was a paradise and uninhabited except for local flora. (no fauna at all).
the primarch has no struggles or problems, all he had to do was sit and eat and wait.
He grew fat and lazy and lost all of the gifts his father had given him.
When rejoined with his legion, he did not know what to do with them and failed miserably.
The emperor cast him out and then sent his legion to the Ultras where their rigorous doctrine would sort them out.
For such a dishonorable fate, he order all records of this legion removed.

DarknessEternal wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

PS: the Emperor had 20 SONS, so don't even try to turn this into another "we want badly converted abominations" thread.

Well, 21 with the Alpha Legion Primarchs.

Thats not including Sensei.........

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions

at least familiarize yourselves with this before leaping off into conjecture. It's got most of the info collated for you.

Im not sure about the fluf but i know the real world reason for the second and eleventh legon "not existing". I found this out from my local area maneger of GW when i asked him this verry same question.



My theory is that the emperor never found them during the great crusade and because of his failure (and shame) he wiped them from history.

iproxtaco wrote:One flat out refused to join the Emperor and as a result was destroyed. The other probably joined the Emperor then had second thoughts, so Russ was sent to completely erase them. Since its implied that they fought, I'd the initially loyal one was there when first contact was made, and they fought, and the loyal one defeated his brother. He was guilt ridden, so turned from the Emperor, so Russ did a Thousand Sons on them.

This is what I was thinking. As far as we've been told, all the Primarchs the Emperor came across loved him at first sight, or fought him, and some way or another came to accept Him and His awesomeness. So the story goes.

But what if those two met him and didn't accept him? "You're not my real Dad!"... AND/OR they were so powerful that when the Emp came to fight them he was forced to destroy them outright.

It could have nothing to do with Chaos, but the Big E couldn't have 2 rogue Primarchs running around doing their own thing. I believe their fates are referred to as "tragedies". He was so ashamed of having killed his two sons that everyone was ordered to forget about it.

svendrex wrote:
1) One of the legions had a Pariah for a primarch.
After the primarch was rejoined with his legion, the rest of the legion developed their pariah powers as well.
Their anti-warp presence was so powerful it blocked warp travel.
This trapped the Emperor, the Space Wolves and the Pariah legion in the same system.
The emperor made the space wolves kill the Pariahs, so he could leave the system and return to the crusade.
For such a dishonorable fate, he order all records of this legion removed.

Unlikely, the Emperor is able to live on the same planet as Sisters of Silence, he is able to overcome the effects of pariah (he is the best damn psyker after all) and why would they be trapped in the same system, Space ships have normal drives as well as warp drives, how do you think they maneuver in real space?

svendrex wrote:
2) The other primarch after being cast through the warp, landed on an eldar Maiden Wold.
The world was a paradise and uninhabited except for local flora. (no fauna at all).
the primarch has no struggles or problems, all he had to do was sit and eat and wait.
He grew fat and lazy and lost all of the gifts his father had given him.
When rejoined with his legion, he did not know what to do with them and failed miserably.
The emperor cast him out and then sent his legion to the Ultras where their rigorous doctrine would sort them out.
For such a dishonorable fate, he order all records of this legion removed.

Grew fat on fruit, really? also Maiden Worlds are protected.

Well, I think the two lost primarchs just didn't want to fight. One paints murals on the sides of land raiders and the other one is a successful Broadway actor.

Seriously guys, we can speculate until the Emperor is blue in the face, but there's no actual information, so we will never know for sure.

svendrex wrote:
1) One of the legions had a Pariah for a primarch.
After the primarch was rejoined with his legion, the rest of the legion developed their pariah powers as well.
Their anti-warp presence was so powerful it blocked warp travel.
This trapped the Emperor, the Space Wolves and the Pariah legion in the same system.
The emperor made the space wolves kill the Pariahs, so he could leave the system and return to the crusade.
For such a dishonorable fate, he order all records of this legion removed.

I don't know if any of you have read Rise of the Tau (yes, I know it's fanfic, but very well written fanfic)
Obviously it's unofficial but I'd tend to believe this explanation.

I think before people start speculating, we should lay down the facts:
1- ALL 20 legions were found by the emperor himself and given their respective legions
2- A few years before the heresy, the ultramarines ranks swelled up with recruits, unknown where from to the rest of the legions (to our knowledge anyway)
3- At least one of these legions were completely destroyed by Russ and his wolves
4- Both legions did something that forced the emperor to act and remove all information about them, and forbid even speaking about them
I think we should stop speculating outside these guide-lines...
As for theories,

As 'un-epic' as those are (I love epicness...) they are the most logical answers...