Betraying the Emperor, could use some assistance

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**htj**

So, I'm looking at starting a Daemons army for use in 40K and potentially for Warhammer if our group ever get round to it. I'd like to buy and paint the army in batches, starting 1t 500pts, then adding 250pts as I go. This is just a motivation thing. The problem I have is I can't decide whether to go undivided from the outset, or start off with one god and work with that for a while.

I'm taking any thoughts coming. Tactical, fluff-wise, cost efficiency, real life considerations. Whatever you've got, I'd like to hear it.

Addendum.
I've been an Imperial lapdog ever since I started playing, nearly 15 years ago. It feels weird to even be considering starting a proper non-Imperial army. Kind of like I'm breaking the law.

**juraigamer**

It all depends on what you want from the army.

I personally just wanted to run Khorne with just mindless melee spam to invoke fear in any army that left a single model standing. Bloodletters, hounds, juggernauts, that one named Khorne HQ, and the soul engines?(name fails me)

Just pure deep strike second turn assault into a blood bath.

You could also go the nurgle route and just be horrible to remove, then add... epidimus? Laughs ensue.

With grey knights, running a lot of multiwound models won't help you much however, but once the grey knights taper off, you should be fine.

**Grubwart**

Shame on you for your heresy! No cookies for you! BUT....were I tempted to betray the Emperor, would have to go with Death Guard Legion.....PUTRESCENCE FTW!

**htj**

Thanks for the thoughts juraigamer. Lucky me, I only play with my friends, none of which have any interest in starting a GK army. Well, maybe I do, but that's because I have piles upon piles of Inq. henchmen gathering dust.

I must admit, the idea of single god forces is gathering appeal for me.

EDIT: @Grubwart. Yes, goo is good. Nurgle appeals mainly for the painting oppurtunities. A major stumbling block there for me is the metal only minis. Perhaps I might flex my converting muscles on that one.

**Harriticus**

Undivided always gives you the best ability to field whatever Chaos units you want.

If you want an Undivided Chaos army with lots of Daemons, go with a Word Bearers theme.

**htj**

@Harriticus. I'm starting Daemons, not CSM, so I'm going with a warp-breach kind of feel. CSM felt just that too bit close to my old Imperial tendencies.

**Movac**

This is the judgment of the righteous, scum.

**Maenus_Rajhana**

Pay no min d to Grubwart - what the lackey of the Corpse God fails to realize is that not only does Chaos have cookies, they're far tastier that those crumbling old pieces of cardboard the IoM tries to foist off on you.

Personally, I'm very pro-Khorne. Bloodthirsters, Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, it's just so bloody killtastic!

**MechaEmperor7000**

I'd highly advise against Mono-god. Each god is dedicated to one facet of war and really using them alone, while legal, is not exactly viable. If you must go with Mono-god, then go with Tzeentch (with fateweaver being the focus), then possibly a Tallyman Nurgle List (featuring Epidemius). Mono Khorne and Mono Slaanesh are worse, since that given their nature you literally do nothing on the first turn.

**htj**

OK, so I'm thinking I might kick off with a small mono-Tzeentch army. If I take that up to, say, 1000pts then start adding a bit of ol' bloody's guys or some daemonettes and such, that might keep me interested enough to keep painting whilst retaining a (hopefully) somewhat viable list.

Any advice on builds here? Or warnings against this plan?

**Henners91**

At least Tzeentch and Slaanesh don't totally hate each other, they might go together reasonably.

**Cadichan Support**

I heard Khorne themed daemons are effective against GK.
I also say a daemon prince is a good HQ. I would recommend a

---+++++MESSAGE TERMINATED BY THE ORDER OF THE INQUISITION+++++---

**htj**

Being HS choices, I'm not sold on Daemon Princes being good HQs.

Damn, you turn radical and right away the puritans are all up in your grill, deleting comments.

**iproxtaco**

If you start up as Tzeentch, grab some Horrors, Flamers and the Changeling as an HQ choice. After grab some fighty troops like Bloodletters and maybe some Seekers of Slannesh for some some quick CC. I guess after that it depends whether you want a Tzeentch only HQ, grab a Lord of Change.

**htj**

I thought the Changeling was a unit upgrade, rather than an HQ?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Changling is a unit upgrade, and he doesnt bring much to the field. However he only costs 5 points and is actually worth what you pay for.

I think he meant a Herald of Tzeentch. I have one on a Chariot, but I havent used him yet. Heard he's good though and much cheaper than a Lord of Change.

If you want a Lord of Change, buy the Fateweaver model. For one it's the newest Daemon Model and can still be used as a vanilla Lord of Change. On top of that, if you expand your army, Fateweaver himself is very powerful at higher levels due to his ability to let you reroll failed saves (effectively giving permanent Feel No Pain to all Tzeentchan Daemons, and giving Bloodcrushers a 3+ feel no pain).

**htj**

You certainly make a good case for Fateweaver. He sounds like the daddy, will have to have a good read up on his rules.

**MechaEmperor7000**

He is prohibitively expensive though, both in money and in point costs. I think he is actually the second most expensive character in the game, right behind Vect on his Dais of Destruction. He also might disappear if he suffers a wound.

**htj**

Hmm. That's less awesome. Well, my long term goal is to be able to field a variety of builds, so he wouldn't have to be the be all and end all of HQs for me.

As for the cost, well, I knew what I was getting into when I started this.

If I'm going to buy a greater daemon, it's going to be a Lord of Change. They've always been my favourite. Might as well go for him.

**Maenus_Rajhana**

When it comes to the Greater Daemon(s), I personally find a Bloodthirster or Keepr of Secrets to be the best option, as almost anything the Laser Chicken can do can be done cheaper with a Daemon Prince

**Henners91**

Chaos Daemons undivided makes even less sense to me than CSM Undivided.

'Cos y'know, the former is comprised of pure essence of their respective, 'hating one another' Gods whereas the latter do at least possess some logic and independent thinking beyond a total obsession with a simple emotional facet.

**iproxtaco**

Chaos Daemons Undivided? I don't understand how that came up.

**Da Boss**

A guy in my group runs demons to some success.
As troops he swears by Plague Bearers for being the best objective campers and difficult to score KPs off. For the killing, he goes with a mix of Soul Grinders (three of them), a Thirster, and Blood Crushers (arguably one of the nastiest units in the game).

His comments on other units:
HQ
Heralds: Very versitile, potentially very useful.
Lord of Change- Big Bird is always included. Tank hunting zzap powers a must.
KoS/GUO- Less useful than the other GDs.
Troops:
Bloodletters- awesome if you get them in, but you're looking at needing a unit of 15-20 to achieve that. They are flimsy.
Daemonettes- not worth much, simply too flimsy.
Horrors- useful in small units for tank hunting, but not to be relied upon.
Elites:
Beasts of Nurgle - Garbage.
Fiends of Slaneesh - Excellent unit, especially in a mech heavy environment.
Flamers of Tzeentch- tricky as hell. Maybe worth it as a min sized suicide unit, especially against high cost marines.
Fast Attack:
Pretty much the weakest FOC slot, seekers might be worth it, hounds and furies not so much.
Heavy Support:
Daemon Princes- points bloat vs. survivablity is the big issue here. Nurgle princes or Tzeentch princes seem best, and consider Iron Hide to be added to their cost automatically.

I've played a good few games against demons, and I've found his list to be one of the toughest.
Dakka has some really good Daemon players though- I know Redbeard is an avid demon player.

**theduncan**

Yermom runs a korne-themed daemon army, you could PM him for help.

**Henners91**

iproxtaco wrote:Chaos Daemons Undivided? I don't understand how that came up.

Anyone who suggests taking Daemons from different Gods.

**htj**

I've never had a problem with Undivided Daemon armies. Reason being: I see them as representing a warp breach. In a small scale, it makes sense that only one god would be involved, but if there were a big enough breach every god would want in on the action. They'd want to wreak havoc on the material world more than each other, as they get to beat on each other in the warp all the time.

Thanks for the tactical advice, guys, really starting to get an idea of how to build my army.