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Hi all, seeing as my post on Warseer is currently inaccessible (woohoo! Cyber-terrorists!), I figured I would throw it out here as well.

I have been trying to come up with some new ways to run Exalted Hero BSBs lately and a particular build has seemed very promising.

So, the build is: MoK, Flail, BSB (Currently using the Doom Totem), Soporific Musk, and a Juggernaut of Khorne.

Since the blurb in the Exalted Hero entry makes no stipulations for your BSB to be on foot, it seems perfectly logical to put him on a Jugger. The protection is unparalleled (without magic items), the fear-causing (especially on the -1 Leadership) is a boon, and the extra WS5 S5 attacks are also fantastic. Due to the large footprint, it also helps to increase the rank bonus very dramatically (and for cheaper than 4 chaos warriors). With TLoS, the extra inch or so from the Jugger also combines beautifully with the LoS-dependent Doom Totem.


I would love some feedback on the setup, as I really am not entirely sold on what weapons/etc. to equip him with.

I run this same bsb build but without the musk and a halberd. Its quite effective and so far my favorite bsb choice.

But lets be honest, the real reason we run this build is the model, the glorious, glorious model, amiright?

The juggernaught displaces 3 chaos warriors (since the BSB on foot would take up 1 spot anyway).
The warriors are cheaper, and typically hit harder (A2 up front, + two supporting attacks.
Yeah, you get the 1+ armor save, but you lose the look out, so it is really dependent on who you are facing.

It works; just watch out for warmachines.

-Matt

Agreed, the model is unbelievably gorgeous. Am gonna do a big conversion.

The Exalted has 4 attacks, the Juggernaut 2 and a Stomp, so you end up down 2 attacks if your warriors were Khornate. You gain the stomp attack if they were regular warriors, but would definitely lose out on attacks compared to a regular on foot BSB. Although the attacks from the Jugger are obviously higher strength than non-halberd warriors.

Causing fear is gonna be useful. I am tempted to take the Diabolic Splendour gift, as enemies testing for Fear at a -2 would be pretty fantastic (-1 from Doom totem and -1 from Diabolic Splendour). Would mean even other Chaos warriors would fail their check more than half the time.

Really, though, this guys going to sit down to a hearty helping of cannonballs, bolts, boulders, and the like.

If you could get him a good Ward save...but then you lose the Fear thing. Still, the extra attacks would be good in a challenge.

Oh, for sure he will be an artillery target. That is a key issue with any such model. I'm hoping that my magic or artillery can mitigate the issue. I will also look into some kind of ward save for him or the unit from shooting or artillery. i[list]irc, there is some banner that gives a ward to its unit.

Yea the Blasted Banner gives a ward save vs shooting. If you could cram another character in the unit you could give that guy the Ironcurse Icon instead.

Hard to go too wrong with a 1+ save, and against armies that didn't have cannons it would work pretty well. And hey, awesome model

I was really tempted to make an army that focused on jamming as many juggers in as possible. Came up with 6 or 7 at 2500 points. Not smart, but would look really cool on the table in one big unit.

Unfortunately, diabolic splendor is a 35 point gift, and exalted hero is capped at 25 :(

Ooooh good catch! That's unfortunate.

I run my BSB Nurgle on a palaquin with halberd and destiny so he causes fear, has 4 S6 attacks and 6 s3 Poison attacks with a 4+ 4+ and is as big as a Jugger but counts as infantry so no LoS loss. I also toss on the breath weapon for good measure (nice surprise for my opponents)

Good catch, saxx. I ran the setup the other night against a buddy of mine who was using dwarves (soporific musk, was gonna test Diabolic splendour this weekend).

First turn my BSB ate a cannonball. Thankfully he rolled a 1 to wound. He did perform very well and did not die. Him and his halberd-Khorne buddies chewed up a unit of iron breakers and he killed the dwarven general in a challenge (although my Sorc with shadow deserves most of the credit due to a timely debuff).

I would definitely like to get him some kind of ward save from shooting, as it was very unnerving to come so close to a painful character-loss so fast!

Thanks, I only know that fact because I cheated my first couple games with -2 leadership charges (OOPS!)

As for keeping him alive, I run him with a squad of Tzeentch Knights with Blasted Standard. In the WOC book it says that juggernauts are cavalry despite not being mounted on a 25x50, and the BRB describes cavalry mounts as only having a single wound, so that leads me to believe hes a cavalry troop type, not monstrous cavalry, and can then take "Look out sir" rule. The Tzeentch Knights then get a 4+ ward save against attacks in the shooting phase (5+ for blasted, +1 for mark).

juggers are monsterous (they are MB in the BRB) thus sticking them with calvary wont give a LOS. in this case the BRB takes precidence over the WoC book as there is not a type as defined in 8th edition in the WOC book.

The back of the BRB in the reference section is where you want to look for unit types. The Jugger is listed as a "Monstrous Beast" (MB). Pg 85 states that if a Monstrous Beast is ridden by a character the model counts as Monstrous Cav.

Now, what the hell do we do with a Nurgle Palanquin which is classed as Infantry? I guess it stays infantry... blah.

Anyway, you won't get a LOS with a Character on Jugger or Demonic Mount (though you do with Steed of Slaanesh) since they are monstrous cav, but a decent ward save should be enough.

Come to think of it, there isn't any real interaction in ranks with MC (ranks of 3) and just Cav (ranks of 5.) I suppose having the MC take up slots of 2 cav mean you get a front rank of 4 models and that is nice and in the middle.

Looks like I've been cheating again then, play and learn I suppose. Or in this case post on dakka and learn. Still looking for an effective way to keep this unit alive against cannons, being 90% of the people I play against are artillery heavy.

Yea, it kind of sucks for jugger/demonic beast mounted guys. Your basic options are:

1) Ward Saves (3+ on Tizz lords with Demon mounts and 4+ item)

2) Regen from Lore of Nurgle or expensive items.

3) Blasted Standard + MoT.

Bsb with no Los or ward is asking for trouble IMO

If you're not running 4+ talisman on another character I'd use that and the charmed shield for your bsb on jugg, if you are already using it I'd use the 5+ ward one and charmed shield.

Bsb-- mok, talisman of preservation, charmed shield, halberd, jugger-- 254

he has 1+/4+ and the shield to help with one cannon ball. The bsb is very important to protect and is worth the powerful ward item! Sorc lord can always get armor of destiny or mot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bsb with no Los or ward is asking for trouble IMO

If you're not running 4+ talisman on another character I'd use that and the charmed shield for your bsb on jugg, if you are already using it I'd use the 5+ ward one and charmed shield.

Bsb-- mok, talisman of preservation, charmed shield, halberd, jugger-- 254

he has 1+/4+ and the shield to help with one cannon ball. The bsb is very important to protect and is worth the powerful ward item! Sorc lord can always get armor of destiny or mot.

The reason I brought up the demonic mount is that for the same points you get the same attacks, same str, better initiative, but lose the +3 save (only +1) and MR1. The nice deal is you don't have to have MoK and worry about your BSB haring off to kill things all by himself.

Acsmedic: how did you model that? I like your nurgle idea very much

I would also point out the other option, the Armor of Morslieb is great vs. cannons, but the Crimson Armor of Dargan is my favorite anti-cannon item since no matter what happens he can't be one shotted.

That is why I am dying to play my WOC vs. TK, going to be funny as hell when the big nasty sphinx goes poof after being challenged.

Sphinx aren't characters- can't be challenged. Unless I'm missing something.

+1 vote for charmed shield helping out against cannons. Take your hit, then get in combat.

Crimson Armor is cool, but I don't know that it justifies that 40 point price tag. Killing Blow isn't super common, and neither are dX wound causing things. I would be more worried about the BSB being brought down by a flurry of attacks more so than one or two, and ward saves help vs both. If I were to make a character kitted out to solo kill cannons and monsters though, that would be a good choice, or a solo sorc on a mount that rides around casting while laughing at cannon shots.

I beleive to remember that mok grants the unit frenzy and therefore also the juggernaut. which means that the hero has 5 attacks, the jugger has 3 attacks plus a stomp.
do answer if i'm incorrect.

yeah they get the extra attack

cheers

Papasmurf

Why not keep the bsb on foot with your warrior blocks wouldnt that do more for you over all?

Hero bsb mot tali of endurance sword of might and a shield. 3+ 4++
its only 4 attacks but at +1 str and he is pretty tough to kill and he would be str 6 now you cant tell me that that is not nasty that will kill anything with no armor save unless they have 3 up or better out right.

And is just a boss

Jugger's and other lord/hero mounts don't get the benefit from MoK as only the character takes it, not the unit. Fiddly and annoying, but there it is. (Unless they FAQ'd it last week.)