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Though some of you will immediately say yay or nay straight away but think about it a bit more.

The LR can (assuming you hit) insta-death a space marine captain, or indeed take out an entire tatical squad in one shot without armour saves. And it can fire ordinace on the move.
you can take them in squadrons and they are only 150pts and for a mere 30 pts you can take two plasma cannons. AV14 on the front

i know there are down sides ie bs 3 and armour 10 at the back but it seems that whenever i play gaurd my LRs turn the tide make the difference and is the reasons for my victory?

Well....

I Don't know very much about Lemon Russes....

However ask for Leman Russes, i reckon there fine as they are. Imperial Guard are MEANT to have Kick Arse Tanks...

Sides, with Armour... 12 (?) on the side, it don't take much to take them out

I play Daemons, Dark Eldar and Chaos Marines. Leman Russes ARE NOT the biggest threat i see when i play the local Guard Player... With 2 Manitcores, 2 Vendettas and 6 Chimeras full of Vets, i focus on those first....

If guard didn't have decent tanks, they would die horribly.

Lemon russ is a good name - they simply do not cut it.

The main gun will miss half of the time. When it hits you'll be lucky to get more than five under the template. Cover reduces the number of kills to 2 or 3. Not great.

Also, it can only do a single wound on an MC each turn.

Too expensive, not enough firepower. With a reduction in armour to justify a drop in price they might have been okay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bloodhorror wrote:Sides, with Armour... 12 (?) on the side, it don't take much to take them out

13 on the sides.

I love the Guard tanks (being a guard player) but my opponent always complain when my tanks annihilate

Diddums for him lmao!

If he dies heavily to them... Then he either has to get better at the game, or stop whining like a bit*h and play a childs game... Like Mouse Trap !

Its that back armor that really kills them. Otherwise they would be scary. I don't like them being able to be used in squadrons, but that's the FOC fault, not the tank itself. Most every other vehicle that can be purchased in masses like that is a tiny light vehicle. I think it is a nasty way to bypass the FOC balancing restrictions for mass tank spam. But if they were really that great, wouldn't we see an awful lot more mass tank spam lists? It's all about the rear armor, nothing a couple of krak grenades and some infantry with balls can't handle.

Bloodhorror wrote:Diddums for him lmao!

If he dies heavily to them... Then he either has to get better at the game, or stop whining like a bit*h and play a childs game... Like Mouse Trap !

ROFLMFAO

Mouse Trap would make an awesome piece of terrain...

JamesMclaren123 wrote:The LR can (assuming you hit) insta-death a space marine captain, or indeed take out an entire tatical squad in one shot without armour saves. And it can fire ordinace on the move.
you can take them in squadrons and they are only 150pts and for a mere 30 pts you can take two plasma cannons. AV14 on the front

A few things.

1. A lot of things can insta-death a Space Marine captain. You're doing something very wrong if you have to allocate a battle cannon wound to him, though.
2. A lot of things can wipe out a tactical squad in a single shot without armour saves. Again, you're doing something wrong if your opponent is able to cover an entire tactical squad with a single template.
3. All ordnance weapons can move and fire, that's not what Lumbering Behemoth does.
4. It's 40pts for a pair of plasma cannon sponsons, but who's counting?
5. Squadrons are commonly seen as a weaker choice to taking individual vehicles. You're forced to target the same enemy unit with all of the unit's fire, and your opponent gets a 25% higher chance of destroying them. You do get a few bonuses (which a lot of people admittedly overlook), though.

i know there are down sides ie bs 3 and armour 10 at the back but it seems that whenever i play gaurd my LRs turn the tide make the difference and is the reasons for my victory?

Make sure there's enough terrain on the table. There's probably a good reason why you're winning if your battlefields are all on Planet Bowling Ball; the rulebook suggests 25% table coverage with terrain, and I more-or-less agree with it.

Your opponents could do better to adopt anti-blast formations to reduce damage. A single line or even a hollow circle spaced properly means that even a direct hit will only cover a minority of a unit. Coupled with cover saves, units shouldn't be losing more than 2-3 men per turn if they're properly protected.

Low rear armour means that Russes are quite squishy in combat. Punch them with something and they'll quite often burn.

Drop pods with cheap melta dreadnoughts work absolute wonders. At least, they always seem to do so against my Guard.

Lastly, if you find that it's too easy to win using Russes...then just try something else for kicks.

Russes are deadly, but they are fairly easy to kill.


I just have to glance them to make them useless while my marines can close.


assault terminators in a LR. only Demolishers and hull lascannons can stop me and by then its too late.


outflanking scout squads in a LSS. 20" assault threat(12" move, 2" disembark, 6" assault) from either edge.


loads of lascannons. my marine squads get em cheaper then you do and can hide in cover while hitting you.


Ironclad Dreds. nearly Impervious to everything except Melta, Demolishers, and Lascannons. keep to cover and i am darn hard to kill.

the russ is fine the way it is. it is 14 front AV/ 13 side/ and 11 or 10 rear depending on model. I dont see the OP complaining about landraiders (14 all around). currently there are enough lance weapons going around you don't need to know it has 14 front.

Lictors can instant-explode them.

I hate the land raider it is the most unfair modle in the game

av14 all round
two twin linked las-cannons twinlinked heavey bolter
assault vehicle
deep strike
can fire at different targets
move flat out and still fire a weapon
troop capasity
can carry terminators
and all for just 225 very overpowerd and unfair if you ask me

We didn't ask you...

av14 all round
two twin linked las-cannons twinlinked heavey bolter
assault vehicle
deep strike
can fire at different targets
move flat out and still fire a weapon
troop capasity
can carry terminators
and all for just 225 very overpowerd and unfair if you ask me

You start off well but then go totally wrong. LRs can only DS in the BA book and it is in no way an advantage to do so. They can split fire with 1 weapon and can't move flatout at all let alone firing a weapon whilsting doing so. Chimeras can also carry Terminators and it is 240-265 points depending on variant and codex. The 2 lascannon option is the worst.

Also why is this on YMDC?

No the Leman Russ isn't overpowered and no taking it in squadrons doesn't make it more so. I love leman russ squadrons because I can easily kill 2-3 tanks in a single assault.

I've played against massed Leman Russes, Heck at 1k I went up against 3 Leman Russes and a Balisk. I tabled my opponent on Turn 1...

The Leman Russ is good but most units are or can be if used well. It is far from being broken or over powered.

FlingitNow wrote:
The Leman Russ is good but most units are or can be if used well.

Except Dark Eldar Mandrakes

This should probably e moved to the discussions or maybe the tactics forum. YMDC is for rules questions or debates.

With that being said, I regularly play against IG and LRs don't scare me all that much. I think they are generally balanced for the points they cost. I'd rather see LRs across the table from me than hydras and manticores.

This thread probably shouldn't be in WHFB.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:Though some of you will immediately say yay or nay straight away but think about it a bit more.

The LR can (assuming you hit) insta-death a space marine captain

Many heavy weapons can do this. Lascannons, Krak Missiles, Lances, Railguns, Meltaguns, Multi Meltas, etc.

or indeed take out an entire tatical squad in one shot without armour saves.

Assuming no 1's are rolled, the squad is all bunched up, and there's no cover saves. At that point, it's the SM players fault if that happens. I usually consider myself lucky to kill 4 or 5, more usually its 2 or 3 with decent spread and cover, assuming a hit or a near hit.

And it can fire ordinace on the move.

There is no restriction on firing ordnance and moving, Vindicators can do this as well. The restriction is on firing "ordnance barrages" and moving (which LR's do not have) and firing other weapons in addition to ordnance (which LR's can by pass) the latter being a relic of the 2E-3E redesign really being a pointless rule for the most part.

you can take them in squadrons

You'll notice very few people do. The Squadron rules are horrifically punitive, hence why you don't see Leman Russ Squadrons in competitive armies.

and they are only 150pts and for a mere 30 pts you can take two plasma cannons. AV14 on the front

180pts then for something that still has rear AV10 and is no harder to kill in assaults than Chimeras, Rhinos, Predators, Land Speeders, etc. That AV14 starts to not mean much when faced with the huge number of meltaguns and lances in todays metagame.

i know there are down sides ie bs 3 and armour 10 at the back but it seems that whenever i play gaurd my LRs turn the tide make the difference and is the reasons for my victory?

If your LR's alone are doing this, then its probably more the fault of your opponent not properly playing to their threat potential than the possibility of the Leman Russ being abusive.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:I hate the land raider it is the most unfair modle in the game

av14 all round
two twin linked las-cannons twinlinked heavey bolter
assault vehicle
deep strike
can fire at different targets
move flat out and still fire a weapon
troop capasity
can carry terminators
and all for just 225 very overpowerd and unfair if you ask me

AV14 is easy to destroy with Melta and Lance weapons. all armies except Orks have access to these and Orks don't need these(they ignore the LR for the most part)

2 Lascannons and a HB isn't exactly steller armament. its good, but not great. Crusaders are better for transporting terminators.

Assault vehicle. so? it pays for it.

Deep Strike: Only in the BA codex. its also a HORRIBLE idea. LRs have a MASSIVE chance of a mishap if they scatter.

only one weapon can fire at a different target.

LRs can't move flat out. Cruising speed, yes.

Troop capacity and Terminators. there is a grand total of 3 vehicles capable of carrying terminators(LR, Chimera, and Stormraven) and this one was actually designed with that in mind. the Landraider is a transport for terminators, its in the job description.

you have the points off by alot. Landraiders are more expensive by 25 points(20 for Redeemers)


Landraiders are a transport for terminators 1st. the guns are an extra bonus.

Amazing tanks is IG's raison d'etre. Plus, nothing that can't be cracked open with a meltagun.

Cerebrium wrote:Amazing tanks is IG's raison d'etre. Plus, nothing that can't be cracked open with a meltagun.

the Monoliths would like a word with you

Grey Templar wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:Amazing tanks is IG's raison d'etre. Plus, nothing that can't be cracked open with a meltagun.

the Monoliths would like a word with you

AP1. Meltagun wins.

Meltagun still needs a 6 to glance and a 6 to destroy. even with BS4, you need an average of 54 meltaguns to kill a Monolith.

what I do against leman russes is I jump AT XV8s over behind them, and fire at their rear armour. If they turn to face the XV8s, then they've shown their AV10 armour to my XV88 and are dead.

your XV8s better be deepstriking as a Russ is about 5" long.

you would have to be practically touching his front to make it over his hull.

im2randomghgh wrote:what I do against leman russes is I jump AT XV8s over behind them, and fire at their rear armour. If they turn to face the XV8s, then they've shown their AV10 armour to my XV88 and are dead.

Why would they need to turn? Also, how often do your IG opponents leave enough room behind their heavy tanks to safely DS?

I just hate them cause cruddence made them good and screwed carnifexes hard.

FlammingGaunt wrote:I just hate them cause cruddence made them good and screwed carnifexes hard.

Cruddace didn't make them much better than they were in the last codex. All he added was Lumbering Behemoth and a bunch of fairly (occasionally over) priced options. Also, Fexes were no-brainer choices in the last codex, and they got nerfed just slightly too hard.