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I see a lot of heavy mech, venom/raider spam armies. I am wondering if a mostly foot based dark eldar army might not be too bad. You can still use WWP for mobility (Harlequin delivery vehicles or one of the few actual vehicles you'd have in a list like this) and upfield unit attacks. Just curious to see if any DE generals are having ANY success with this. What are you finding to be your best bets? I would love to try something different like this myself. A Haemonculous delivering a WWP on a raider with wracks, Bloodbrides, harlies, etc, jumping out from it. Warrior and trueborn units for suppressing firepower. Scourges and Hellions and such for mobility. Scary constructs to eat things.

Just something I was thinking about as I was thinking about some 1800pt lists for a tourney this fall. I'd have lots of time to build something this way.

1 Harlequim unit and 2 Beastmaster units for screening.

3 Troop units behind the screeners with a Haemon for 4+ save and FNP

3 Troop units inside Raiders/Venoms to keep mobility up

2 units of Blaster Trueborn inside Raider/Venom for alpha striking the vehicles that might blast your footdar to pieces.

3 Ravagers, same as above

Tavitin wrote:1 Harlequim unit and 2 Beastmaster units for screening.

3 Troop units behind the screeners with a Haemon for 4+ save and FNP

3 Troop units inside Raiders/Venoms to keep mobility up

2 units of Blaster Trueborn inside Raider/Venom for alpha striking the vehicles that might blast your footdar to pieces.

3 Ravagers, same as above

so let me get this strait, half of your army is fast, and half is not. Why exactly?


and for OP's question, I've seen some interesting lists, with full BM's, full Haemon's and a couple Talos', good luck against anything with decent anti infantry though.

Threedin wrote:

Tavitin wrote:1 Harlequim unit and 2 Beastmaster units for screening.

3 Troop units behind the screeners with a Haemon for 4+ save and FNP

3 Troop units inside Raiders/Venoms to keep mobility up

2 units of Blaster Trueborn inside Raider/Venom for alpha striking the vehicles that might blast your footdar to pieces.

3 Ravagers, same as above

so let me get this strait, half of your army is fast, and half is not. Why exactly?


and for OP's question, I've seen some interesting lists, with full BM's, full Haemon's and a couple Talos', good luck against anything with decent anti infantry though.

Well, footdar is not exactly competitive so i compared to other codexes playing mostly foot-units.

Orks being the shining example of that: Koptas and Trukks packed with Lootas for shooting.
Boyz footslogging.

D. Eldar: Beasts and Raiders packed with Ravagers and Venoms for shooting.
Wyches or Warriros footslogging

Orks are tougher but Dark Eldar are fleet 100% of the time and bring Invulneravbles to the table. Seems balanced in a way.

My idea is a Succubus with Bloodbrides... 3 haemons... harlies... couple units of warriors, 2 small units of trueborn with darklances, 2 6 man hellions, a couple ravagers...

Of course, I have never played DE so have no real clue what I am doing. I am thinking if I kinda put my daemon mindset in with them they might work better.

I've played quite a few games with only 1 Raider and 1 Venom to some success, but I use the webway portal as a delivery method for my foot sloggers.

They just don't live if you have to run up the table. I've tried it and it never works out, even with plentify LoS-blocking cover.

There are effective WWP armies. Here's an example:

HQ: Haemonculi with WWP
HQ: Haemonculi with WWP

Troop1: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop2: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop3: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop4: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop5: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons

Fast Attack1-3: Full on Beast Pack

Elite1: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides. Or whatever.
Elite2: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.
Elite3: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.

Heavy1: Talos. Configured to your taste.
Heavy2: Talos
Heavy3: Talos

The premise is simple - in a pitched battle situation for example, the two troop choice venoms with haemonculi deploy 12" left and right of the center mark, so that regardless of where your enemy deploys, you're in assault range. Turn 1 sees you move up 12", disembark, and deploy the WWP - potentially off center of the board in two places at once.

Now the enemy has three choices.

1. Bundle away into their respective corners trying to avoid it for a turn
2. Sit tight and shoot down what you have
3. Attempt to surround the WWPs so that you can't use them.

WHERE you put the WWPs is the most important decision of the game. Not in terrain. You want emerging units to have a clear route to move out of the WWPs and into assault range. You also want enemy units to have a clear path to surround your WWP(s) if they are going to attempt it.

In reaction:

1. You're probably still going to make it into assault.
2. You're probably still going to make it into assault.
3. You're probably still going to make it into assault.

Even if they move up to surround your WWP, which should be sitting at the 24" mark, they're going to have to surround it - and beasts have 6" move, 12" assault, and a variable run/fleet. Definite potential to get into assault with whatever is surrounding your WWPs.

Dark Eldar live and die by the movement phase and what they do in it. This is doubly true for foot lists and WWP lists.

My list is similar to Dash's, except I take Beast packs as fast attack choices and Harlequins as elites instead of using wracks in venoms for WWP deployment.

That's only because I don't want to use vehicles, though. Harlequins only have an added benefit if you go second, where the venoms may be shot down on turn 1. They lose 8" of WWP deployment, and you can't deploy them in Dawn of War, which hurts. Venoms are a better option overall.

The strengths of the list are the Talos' and the full 15-model Wych units.

Dashofpepper wrote:There are effective WWP armies. Here's an example:

HQ: Haemonculi with WWP
HQ: Haemonculi with WWP

Troop1: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop2: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop3: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop4: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop5: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons

Elite1: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides. Or whatever.
Elite2: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.
Elite3: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.

Heavy1: Talos. Configured to your taste.
Heavy2: Talos
Heavy3: Talos

The premise is simple - in a pitched battle situation for example, the two troop choice venoms with haemonculi deploy 12" left and right of the center mark, so that regardless of where your enemy deploys, you're in assault range. Turn 1 sees you move up 12", disembark, and deploy the WWP - potentially off center of the board in two places at once.

Now the enemy has three choices.

1. Bundle away into their respective corners trying to avoid it for a turn
2. Sit tight and shoot down what you have
3. Attempt to surround the WWPs so that you can't use them.

WHERE you put the WWPs is the most important decision of the game. Not in terrain. You want emerging units to have a clear route to move out of the WWPs and into assault range. You also want enemy units to have a clear path to surround your WWP(s) if they are going to attempt it.

In reaction:

1. You're probably still going to make it into assault.
2. You're probably still going to make it into assault.
3. You're probably still going to make it into assault.

Even if they move up to surround your WWP, which should be sitting at the 24" mark, they're going to have to surround it - and beasts have 6" move, 12" assault, and a variable run/fleet. Definite potential to get into assault with whatever is surrounding your WWPs.

Dark Eldar live and die by the movement phase and what they do in it. This is doubly true for foot lists and WWP lists.

your forgot your 3 beast packs.

also if your opponent is all mech you end up charging and destroying his transports only to get shot up by the contents. I suppose you want to make you talos able to open transports, so a heat lance instead of a haywire blaster. Hope the transport is within 15" of the wwp.

Exergy wrote:

your forgot your 3 beast packs.

also if your opponent is all mech you end up charging and destroying his transports only to get shot up by the contents. I suppose you want to make you talos able to open transports, so a heat lance instead of a haywire blaster. Hope the transport is within 15" of the wwp.

A squad of 4 trueborn with blasters coming out of the portal has opened up a transport for my beasts and/or wyches to assault every game I take them.

Dashofpepper wrote:There are effective WWP armies. Here's an example:

HQ: Haemonculi with WWP
HQ: Haemonculi with WWP

Troop1: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop2: 3x wracks in a venom
Troop3: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop4: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons
Troop5: 15 wyches with haywire grenades, agonizer, wych weapons

Elite1: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides. Or whatever.
Elite2: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.
Elite3: Doesn't matter. Take some bloodbrides.

Heavy1: Talos. Configured to your taste.
Heavy2: Talos
Heavy3: Talos

I like this list. I'd maybe swap out the Elites for Hellions, just 'cos I love 'em and they can't get blocked in by a wall around the portal.

Very cool list. I should try it out.

Foo wrote:
I like this list. I'd maybe swap out the Elites for Hellions, just 'cos I love 'em and they can't get blocked in by a wall around the portal.

Very cool list. I should try it out.

Im sure dash would want 3 units of beast in there, they are the most competitive thing in a WWP list, the very reason to take the portal. If you take the baron you could have a troops squad I suppose... I think trueborn have a place in this list, to come in and kill a tank. Their 24" threat range out of the portal should let them kill a tank, and hopefully after its all said and done they are blocked from shooting by close combat.

Yep, just forgot to type in the beasts. Fixed it.

In proxying some games, I noticed WWP's seem to be a huge detriment. It's REALLY easy to zoom a rhino or other transport over (or jump pack over), dump your guys out and easily surround it. It seems using WWP's so far that you don't have enough to defend them to avoid this.

Walls wrote:In proxying some games, I noticed WWP's seem to be a huge detriment. It's REALLY easy to zoom a rhino or other transport over (or jump pack over), dump your guys out and easily surround it. It seems using WWP's so far that you don't have enough to defend them to avoid this.

Strangely enough, I addressed this already...

You're not necessarily pulling them off. 3 or 4 Marines can basically stop a WWP from working. That was generally my problem.

And we were also playing at much lower pt levels. 1k, 1200 and such where I am thinking WWP are basically useless

Seems unlikely you can surround two portals and have nothing get through at all. Even if you do, it doesn't destroy them. They can walk up the board, which sucks, admittedly.

Again, this is another use for Hellions! Jump out, shoot, then assault, pulling the blockers off the portal so next turn squads can come out of it (assuming some are left).

Walls wrote:
You're not necessarily pulling them off. 3 or 4 Marines can basically stop a WWP from working. That was generally my problem.

That's my point. Deploy your WWPs so that if the enemy runs up the board to surround them, they place themselves within assault range of your back table edge. Depends on what your enemy is using of course - that tactic isn't necessary if your enemy doesn't have fast movers. *sigh* There are so many things you can do here. You can stack your two raiders/venoms in an inverted obtuse V and drop an untouchable WWP between them. You c...

Meh, if you don't like WWPs, don't play them. =p

The problem is I WANT to like them. It just screams Dark Eldar. But I think you touched on my problem. How far ahead should you be deploying them? If you are putting them in your backfield, isn't normal reserve almost just as good? I was putting mine up pretty far, thinking stuff would jump out and killkillkill. That might be the mistake.

Walls wrote:The problem is I WANT to like them. It just screams Dark Eldar. But I think you touched on my problem. How far ahead should you be deploying them? If you are putting them in your backfield, isn't normal reserve almost just as good? I was putting mine up pretty far, thinking stuff would jump out and killkillkill. That might be the mistake.

It depends on your enemy army.

If you're playing against something that doesn't have the means to completely surround both WWPs, shoot them up the field and deploy them in or by their deployment zone.

If you're playing against something that does have the means to completely surround both WWPs...and by that I mean that they have the speed, model count, and availability of units, then I would deploy them on your side of midfield - just far enough away that they would have to get EXTREMELY lucky on their run roll to surround it. Now, their choices are to either ignore the WWPs in midfield, or expose themselves trying to block them off. If they succeed, they'll be in assault range from your back table edge with Beasts - if they fail, they'll be in assault range for your entire army coming out of one of the WWPs.

Alternatively, you could deploy one on your side, and another on their side. If they surround the one on their side, they'll still be in range of your other WWP to come out and assault. If they surround the one on your side, you can come out the other (far) one. If they surround both, then they are split up a bit, and you can assault the one your side, taking out a portion of their army with the bulk of yours.

WWPs are nothing like they were in the old codex. The ability to take multiples, plus the fact that units are no longer destroyed if the portal isn't deployed or they can't exit, means that they're a lot more reliable.

somerandomdude wrote:Alternatively, you could deploy one on your side, and another on their side. If they surround the one on their side, they'll still be in range of your other WWP to come out and assault. If they surround the one on your side, you can come out the other (far) one. If they surround both, then they are split up a bit, and you can assault the one your side, taking out a portion of their army with the bulk of yours.

WWPs are nothing like they were in the old codex. The ability to take multiples, plus the fact that units are no longer destroyed if the portal isn't deployed or they can't exit, means that they're a lot more reliable.

but you have lost the ability to give it to unit leaders or give IC's bikes or boards.

Exuse me but 2-4 marines can not stop a WWP form working for scourges, helions and jet bikes as they would just jump overthem.

A small pebble I know, but it bears worth mentioning.

Exergy wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:Alternatively, you could deploy one on your side, and another on their side. If they surround the one on their side, they'll still be in range of your other WWP to come out and assault. If they surround the one on your side, you can come out the other (far) one. If they surround both, then they are split up a bit, and you can assault the one your side, taking out a portion of their army with the bulk of yours.

WWPs are nothing like they were in the old codex. The ability to take multiples, plus the fact that units are no longer destroyed if the portal isn't deployed or they can't exit, means that they're a lot more reliable.

but you have lost the ability to give it to unit leaders or give IC's bikes or boards.

Bikes/Boards do little for you when you have to stay still to deploy it (old codex).

The unit leader part does hurt, but the fact that you can move and deploy it means it doesn't really matter at all who gets it.

IHMO if your oponent is trying to block your entryway instead of focusing on killing what is in the field i suppose you're already getting and advantage.

The problem with WWP lists is stuff coming in waves, so you will be fighting with handicaps all over the place, almost all the time.

If he tries to block what's not on the board, that's fine because they're wasting units trying to neutralize something that is not on the table.