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HQ:
The Swarmlord x1
280pts

Troops:

Genestealers x8
sything talons x8
total: 128pts

Hormagaunts x17
Toxin Sacs x17
Total: 136pts

Ripper Swarm x3
30pts


Heavy Support:

Mawloc x1
Total: 170pts

Grand Total: 744

First off, i know this works cause I have never lost a match with this army list. Secondly, I don't want to hear anyone calling me a noob cause i have an expensive HQ choice.

Tactics:
Since i always play at My local games workshop i usually play on a 4""x4"" board with buildings and trees on it. i feild the swarmlord, hormagaunts and rippers as my HQ and 2 troops with my mawloc and genestealers in reserve. the deployed forces chrge up sticking to cover to minimise losses, the hormagaunts covering the swarmlord while the rippers charge up as a distraction. according to the staff at gamesworkshop my mawloc comes in first turn (not sure about that but hay hoe). everyone shoots at that as the hormagaunts swarms them and the swarmlord takes out any characters. then the genestealers outflank to get rid of any infantry. i use my mawloc to take fire and kill tanks so that works quite well. comments?

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:First off, i know this works cause I have never lost a match with this army list.

Personally then, I'm wondering why you've posted this?

In terms of actual feedback, I'm not criticising you for running the Swarmlord, however Tervigons can work wonders at 750pts, as can rending on Genestealers.

well, swarmlord is expensive, but in such a small game will be hard to take down, so an okay choice.

genestealers normally work best with toxin sacs, it gives them much increased chances of rending. I'd drop the scything talons in favour of those.

3 ripper swarms isn't really enough, you generally need more for them to be really effective, and I would prefer to drop them in your army for more hormagaunts or stealers.

And while Mawlocs are fun, they work best in pairs at higher levels. Trygons are amazingly good at low points value games, so I would be tempted to try and make the extra points (maybe from the rippers) to change the Mawloc to a Trygon

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:according to the staff at gamesworkshop my mawloc comes in first turn (not sure about that but hay hoe)

?! I dont think they are playing that right. Unless I am missing something, the rulebook says that it come in via deep strike, which is like a reserve roll. I would think the quickest you could ever do a Terror from the deep attack would be turn 2

Jburch wrote:

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:according to the staff at gamesworkshop my mawloc comes in first turn (not sure about that but hay hoe)

?! I dont think they are playing that right. Unless I am missing something, the rulebook says that it come in via deep strike, which is like a reserve roll. I would think the quickest you could ever do a Terror from the deep attack would be turn 2

That's correct, and then only if you field him on the board first turn, and then burrow.

I agree that the Mawloc should be replaced with a Trygon, points willing. Especially since your playing the Mawloc wrong.

I am also an advocate of the Swarmlord, and f your playing 750 games with him on a tiny board i can see him doing some damage.

I would drop the Rippers and also find points for toxin sacs on Genestealers.

Since you love your list so much you shoud try to keep it close to what you got, but just upgrade

HQ:
The Swarmlord x1
280pts

Troops:

Genestealers x8
total: 112pts

Hormagaunts x18
Toxin Sacs x18
Total: 144pts

Heavy Support:

Trygon x1
Adrenal Gland
Total: 210pts

Grand Total: 744

swarm the gaunts beside the Trygon, Swarmlord behind casting furious charge on Hormagaunts. Genestealers doing whatever genestealers do best, and charge forward across the 4x4 board. getting preferred enemy later in the battle while Hormagaunts are engaged. all the while Trygon soaking up all the shots. (its to bad there is no Venomthrope..)
anyways 1R0NM0NK3Y, I like your list, and i think i may play mine!

Thanks for the pointers. The main reason i chose the mawloc is because the staff told me that it could come up first turn and that worked well and the only reason i chose the rippers is cause its a cheap troop choice and it means i can have my genestealers in reserve and outflank them. I agree with the change to a trygon but with my stealers i like the sything talons cause it ment i could re roll ones and i have been told it gives you an extra attack cause it counts as giving them extra close combat weapons (even though you are just changing them). So in these games my stealers have been striking first (usually) at weapon skill 5 strength 4, re-rolling 1's when hitting and rending. That was pretty mean when you had the swarmlord charging at you and a mawloc eating your tanks...

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:i like the sything talons cause it ment i could re roll ones and i have been told it gives you an extra attack cause it counts as giving them extra close combat weapons (even though you are just changing them).

Sorry to yet again be the bringer of bad news, but Tyranids do not recieve bonus attacks for having extra close combat weapons. So adding the scything talons will only give you the ability to reroll 1's when you go to hit.

And with the mawloc it is because it does not say "after rolling from reserve" or "when arriving from reserve" so i think that is why they think you don't have to roll, cause the codex doesn't say you have to. i get where you are coming from and thats why i wasn't sure but i will check the games-workshop forums and see what they say cause i am not sure. Either way i already have a trygon. it is a prime but i can just feild it as a regular trygon. i just chose prime cause it looked cooler...


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And by the way the reason i posted this is so i can see what you would do to beat them and then i can adapt and get better at the game

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:And with the mawloc it is because it does not say "after rolling from reserve" or "when arriving from reserve" so i think that is why they think you don't have to roll, cause the codex doesn't say you have to. i get where you are coming from and thats why i wasn't sure but i will check the games-workshop forums and see what they say cause i am not sure. Either way i already have a trygon. it is a prime but i can just feild it as a regular trygon. i just chose prime cause it looked cooler...

Page 51 of the codex will give you all the info you need to come to the conclusion yourself.

The terror from the deep is an attack that happens when the Mawloc DEEP STRIKES.

The Mawloc only has 2 ways of deep strking, either it can deep strike from reserves, or it can deep strike the turn after it performs a burrow. Under the burrow special rule, it says that you remove the Mawloc from the table and place it into reserves. Nowhere does it say anything about being able to start the game burrowed.

Page 33 of your codex under "Close combat weapons" will give you the rule for the genestealers lack of an extra attack

As far as what I would do to counter your list, I would proably just focus fire the swarmlord. Knock out your synapse, then wait for the mawloc to show up and blast him down. Mawlocs dont seem as effective as Trygons, and even then..Trygons need support. But then again, I am not familiar with 750 point games, so I really cant say exactly what would work.

I don't see how Scything Talons can be that much of a help when you can't take 2 sets. for 16 point cost in upgrades you can get another body for un-upgraded genes. If they are going to be upgraded, Take Toxin sacs, the re-roll to wound gives extra rending. also, genestealers have weapon skill 6...

but if you really want the talon, I guess drop the adrenal gland on the Trygon (though hate saying it) and that gives you the extra 16 points enough for the upgrade

Idea! i could just have the genestealers next to the swarmlord and gaunts and give them preffered enemy, then i can have extra points for other stuff and if i switch to a trygon i can still deep strike but it will just be a regular one rather than a terror from the deep! i think the best way to play nids is not to just charge up the middle but be clever about where you come from. if you already have scary things charging at you and then even bigger scary things coming from the sides and underneath it works really well. especially in 750pts games cause if my genestealers can kill of one or two sqauds that is alot of the enemy army gone and if i can take them out on the turn they come on the enemy panics, tries to take them out and ends up being crushed by everything else coming at them, no enemy can stand a swarm of gaunts followed by the swarmslord and a mawloc/trygon... exept grey knights...


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Just incase you are wondering why i don't know half of these rules, its just casue i only started warhammer recently and i am on here to learn them so pl,ease point out anything else i am doing wrong. i just happen to have some very nice family members when it comes to christmas time...

Here's the problem. Any way you look at it.. you've got anywhere from 450-500 points sunk into 2 models in a 750 point list. Both those models have a 3+ armor save and absolutely no other way to stop shooting damage due to MC and general size. I know you say you've never lost a match, but I wonder about who you're playing with that's actually losing to it. You have 0 models that can actually shoot anything and are entirely dependent on those 2 bigs carrying you, which I can't see happening.

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:The only reason i chose the rippers is cause its a cheap troop choice and it means i can have my genestealers in reserve and outflank them.

Would this be in Dawn of War missions, where you start with 1 HQ and 2 Troops? You don't have to deploy 2 Troops, you can deploy fewer if you want to. Rulebook pg93 specfically says 'maximum of one HQ and two Troops'. No need to have a 'placeholder' Ripper unit, you can start with Swarmlord and Hormagaunts and spend the points elsewhere.

Jigging things around to buy a single Tyrant Guard would more than double Swarmlord's endurance - you can put wounds on it, and the Swarmlord/Guard unit can claim a cover save for being behind Gaunts. That's half of all Krak missiles missing, and the first two hits not even scratching the big guy.

Outflanking Genestealers is excellent with Swarmlord's Alien Cunning, especially on 4 x 4.

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:with my stealers i like the sything talons cause it ment i could re roll ones and i have been told it gives you an extra attack cause it counts as giving them extra close combat weapons (even though you are just changing them). So in these games my stealers have been striking first (usually) at weapon skill 5 strength 4, re-rolling 1's when hitting and rending.

Since you've got a Swarmlord, you can support one unit each turn with Preferred Enemy via his Swarm Leader ability. Unless you're attacking a tank, that's better than Scything Talons as it re-rolls all missed attacks. So, paying for Scything Talons is a bit overkill - especially when you're on a 4x4 board where it's easy to get Swarmie close enough to use Swarm Leader.

To re-roll Rending (which happens on rolls To Wound), you'll need Toxin Sacs. They do cost a fair bit, but being able to re-roll half your dice when wounding Marines (check out rulebook pg42) and so almost double your number of 6's is totally worth it.

The point about Tyranids not getting bonus attacks for extra weapons has been mentioned above.

lindsay40k wrote:

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:The only reason i chose the rippers is cause its a cheap troop choice and it means i can have my genestealers in reserve and outflank them.

Jigging things around to buy a single Tyrant Guard would more than double Swarmlord's endurance - you can put wounds on it, and the Swarmlord/Guard unit can claim a cover save for being behind Gaunts. That's half of all Krak missiles missing, and the first two hits not even scratching the big guy.

This more than anything else. Finding that extra 60 points might be rough with the setup you're going with but.. Just to give you an example since you're new to 40K as I've gathered from your other posts.. A typical army, Space Wolves.. can have 4-18 Missile Launchers at 750 points (not likely to have quite that many, but I can easily see myself running 4-10 depending on how I felt that day). In your current list, with 5ML, that's 5 missiles with 3's to hit and 2's to wound, and you get no save at all. That's theoretically your Swarmlord dead on the first turn of shooting from a single 140 point unit. That doesn't take into account any of the rest of the army. These are the kinds of things you need to plan for. What armies do the people at your local store run? Maybe it won't matter as much, but pretty much any DE or MEQ army will eat this alive

Nerrik wrote:but pretty much any DE or MEQ army will eat this alive

Grey Knights with Psycannons instantly spring to mind.

The lack of models is crazy, you need more swarm otherwise when your little nids are mowed down (easily) you are only left with 2 models.

And all your opponents guns are likely to be unengaged in combat.

I am with the consensus here, Swarmlord although powerful is a heavy point sink at 750, but if thats your style of play then go for it. But old Swarmy needs those Tyrant guards to get the cover saves... or else he dies other tricks to confer cover saves to MCs is groups of Gargoyles screening, or skyslasher swarms but i don't recommend these at 750 either.

HQ:
The Swarmlord /w Tyrant Guard = 280pts

Troops:
Genestealers x8 = 112
Hormagaunts x 16 = 98

Heavy Support:
Trygon = 200

Total: 744

Thats the only way i see your Swarmlord staying alive against all comers
Here is what I would run at 750

HQ
Tyranid Prime /w deathspitter = 85

Elite
x2 Hive Guards = 100

Troops
x8 Genestealers = 112
x24 Hormagants /w Adrenal glands + Toxin sacs= 240

Heavy
Trygon w/ Adrenal glands = 210

Total = 747

I know the Hormagaunts are TOO EXPENSIVE.. but thats how i play them and they work for me. Connect the Prime to the Hive Guards, giving your synapse and transport poppers 7 T6 wounds, put the Tyrgon an Hormagaunts in the Front line, making your opponent have to choose which is more important (when they both are awesome) and your Cheep Genestealers doing whatever the Objective is, holding ground , Outflanking, infiltrate... thats what makes the so good. and keep the Hiveguard/prime unit right behind the front line, popping tanks, or just causing ruckus with their 24" Str8 AP4 no LoS or cover saves (unless they are in area terrain of course)

So if i simply run 3 tervigons at 750 points how would you beat it?

Built-in wrote:I am with the consensus here, Swarmlord although powerful is a heavy point sink at 750, but if thats your style of play then go for it. But old Swarmy needs those Tyrant guards to get the cover saves... or else he dies other tricks to confer cover saves to MCs is groups of Gargoyles screening, or skyslasher swarms but i don't recommend these at 750 either.

HQ:
The Swarmlord /w Tyrant Guard = 280pts

naked swarmlord is 280 pts, +65 for each guard (with whips, ofcourse)

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:
And by the way the reason i posted this is so i can see what you would do to beat them and then i can adapt and get better at the game

For reference, this is my all comers Eldar 750 point list

(108) Farseer- Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Doom [psychic power: re roll to wound]

(180) 5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon [3 shots s6, ap5]

(247) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock- 2 flamers, destructor [destructor is a heavy flamer]
Wave Serpent- eldar missile launcher

(134) 3 Guardian Jetbikes + Warlock- shuri cannon, spear, destructor

(40) War Walker- 2x shuri cannon
(40) War Walker- 2x shuri cannon



Lets just say this. If you don't take hive guard- you'll probably lose. Long story short- you need to have a way to reliably deal with tanks. Close combat is well and good until you face off against a good Eldar or Dark Eldar player. You'll never catch them, and if you do you'll be hitting on 6.

You need some hive guard.

Guardian wrote:

Built-in wrote:I am with the consensus here, Swarmlord although powerful is a heavy point sink at 750, but if thats your style of play then go for it. But old Swarmy needs those Tyrant guards to get the cover saves... or else he dies other tricks to confer cover saves to MCs is groups of Gargoyles screening, or skyslasher swarms but i don't recommend these at 750 either.

HQ:
The Swarmlord /w Tyrant Guard = 280pts

naked swarmlord is 280 pts, +40 for each guard (with whips, ofcourse)

+60!!! +5 for lashwhips

How would i be hitting on 6's?

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:How would i be hitting on 6's?

because the tanks moved 12

And I get what you guys are saying with the eldar beating me but i never play eldar. With the mawloc list I could beat space marines cause even if he came up on turn 2 i could still take out any tanks reasnobly quickly 'cause I will land close enought to assault next turn and even if he dies he will probably have soaked up a tonne of bolter fire and none of the people i play have devastator squads (stupid I know) so that isn't usually a problem. I have only played Eldar once and the guy doesn't play anymore. i know eldar could probably destroy me but my list is mainly adapted to fighting what come into the store i play at which is usually space marines. But when a very basic space marine army comes up against this, I win. I also play orks alot and havn't lost against them and my friend who recently started necrons. Usually when i loose is apocolypse games where every enemy on the board goes, "KILL THE NIDS!!!". When you have 5 or 6 orbital bombardments comeing your way...


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Ah, that makes sense.


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Another thing was i don't got much money right now so i am looking for a cheapish army so getting 2 hive guard is kinda not gonna work. Wish I could do it but I don't have the cash after I started my grey knights and I need a case.

I'm still going to stand by, a basic All Comers list from any Space Marine army should tear this apart (at least on paper). Whether they play badly or get unlucky with rolls is another thing, but I mean, do you expect them to keep all their tanks right next to each other for you when they know you're going to Terror From the Deep? It's still only a Str6 single hit on the tank.. so against say.. the back of a rhino, that's still 4 to glance and 5 to pen.. and I don't believe the TFtD rule gives you 2d6 to pen. What do you do if that initial play doesn't open a tank? Mawloc is AWFUL in combat with WS3.. At that point you're just hoping he can tie up a single squad until Swarmlord arrives.. and IF you manage to do that, cool.. but that's a single squad, everything else will ignore it because it's not a threat (ok not entirely true, assuming it doesn't die to a powerfist by the end of combat on their turn, you can Hit and Run and be able to burrow again next turn)

I know you want this to be a good list, but it's just not. Swarmlord is too expensive at 750, and too weak period without Tyrant Guards, which are too expensive to give him at 750. Pair that with a weak MC (And yes, Mawloc has his uses, but it's still a weak MC compared to something like a Trygon for 40 points more) and 2/3rds your army is sunk into 2 models.. Neither of which have a way to protect themselves from ranged fire and only 1 of which is any good in close combat.

Nerrik wrote:
I know you want this to be a good list, but it's just not. Swarmlord is too expensive at 750, and too weak period without Tyrant Guards, which are too expensive to give him at 750. Pair that with a weak MC and 2/3rds your army is sunk into 2 models.

So true, just so fragile, try spreading your points a bit more.

This list just might become viable if upped to 1000 points and bulked up with infantry.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:This list just might become viable if upped to 1000 points and bulked up with infantry.

And even more-so the more you bump up the points. It's really difficult to get a truly solid Nid army at low points. There's like a checklist you have to go through, and before you get through the 2nd check you're out of points.

Lower points all amount to the same thing. 2 Tervigons some Gaunts and Doom of Malatai in a Spod.