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So I have not really looked but from memory I do not know for sure where this would fall so posting it up here.

Now I print out my army lists with enough to hand one to each opponent I play (in tournaments) or in the case of just normal gaming a copy to hand and let my opponent reference while playing instead of handing mine over constantly. So my opponents know exactly what my army list contains.

Now on my Grey Hunter packs, each pack member has a rune on their right shoulder pad that designates their pack with the corresponding rune placed on the packs designated transport so there is no possible way of me switching packs with transports in game.

Now this leads me to the question;

Am I under any requirement to continually remind my opponent what is inside my rhinos? Am I required to place one of my special weapon equipped Grey Hunters on top of the rhino to remind my opponent what the pack inside is equipped with?

Now I am reminded in the BRB, that our models do not have the god-like view of the battlefield that we as the players do so we have to take that into account when performing certain actions, like moving 6" representing a stealthy move across an unknown battlefield. Would not the same apply in reverse? That our god-like view would not allow us to peer into transports and know what they are equipped with?

I can understand pointing out the squads at deployment in reference to handing over your army list. But what about during the course of the game?

No, you're not required to continually remind your opponent which unit is where.

But, as per A Note on Secrecy on page 92, you had better agree with your opponent whether or not the contents of your transports is secret. And you had better have a way of proving that units aren't magically shuffling between transports if you're playing using secrets.

As far as i know from the tournaments i have played in. (Ard Boyz, GT's, Nova open) You are only required to give the list to your opponent. Clarify at the beginning of the game what units are in what transports. And lastly answer any questions when asked by your opponent. As for reminding him all the time what unit is where is totally up to you, but by no means required to do said practice.

solkan wrote:No, you're not required to continually remind your opponent which unit is where.

But, as per A Note on Secrecy on page 92, you had better agree with your opponent whether or not the contents of your transports is secret. And you had better have a way of proving that units aren't magically shuffling between transports if you're playing using secrets.

Are you sure about that? I read "In the same sprit, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle" implies that you would actually have to disclose that information, ongoing.

I sometimes put a man on top if they look confused, or if it's going to be really important for my game plan.

But, unless they ask, it seems fair to not mention it, to me.

well, you should always tell them at the start of the game which units are in which transports, but as far as I know there is no reason to keep telling your opponent.

However, there is also no reason not to, so if it's a friendly game, then keep telling them if they ask, if it's a tournament game then they should be remembering really.

But it's all for fun, and it's better to keep telling your opponent, than refuse, and get them irritated.

Page 92 - a note on secrecy. Generally it's up to you and your opponent to decide whether you're playing closed-list, open-list, 'I can see your list once and then it's up to me to remember it' etc.

I've typically found in both friendly and tournament play that the expectation is that if at any point I want to check which unit is where or in which transport then that's my prerogative and you should be prepared to answer. Whether or not that's an actual rule is up to an individual TO or your agreement before the game, but I doubt you'd get much traction.

On a personal note, I'd find it rather rude of you to hide gear in a typical game of 40k - the purpose of the WYSIWYG rule is that I am able to tell visually what each unit has, and circumventing that by popping them in a transport doesn't really sit with me.

i have no issue reminding them of what squd is where, however, i dont allow them to change there move with there models once they have them dictated to something certain.

case in point. my opponent went to shoot the chimera my plasma vets were in. when he asked what was in there, i told him. his reply was to move dreadnaught back to its original spot and them move to the chimera where the melta vets were in. thats a no go. once you commit a movement, it is done.

martin74 wrote:i have no issue reminding them of what squd is where, however, i dont allow them to change there move with there models once they have them dictated to something certain.

case in point. my opponent went to shoot the chimera my plasma vets were in. when he asked what was in there, i told him. his reply was to move dreadnaught back to its original spot and them move to the chimera where the melta vets were in. thats a no go. once you commit a movement, it is done.

It's worth pointing out that this is actually in the rules. Page 11.

solkan wrote:No, you're not required to continually remind your opponent which unit is where.

But, as per A Note on Secrecy on page 92, you had better agree with your opponent whether or not the contents of your transports is secret. And you had better have a way of proving that units aren't magically shuffling between transports if you're playing using secrets.

When there is a large rune covering the right shoulder pad and that same rune is on the right panel of the transport there is not much to hiding. I mean I could even put the specific rune on the army list entry as Army Builder will allow it, but that borders on hand holding almost.

Dark Chaplain wrote:As far as i know from the tournaments i have played in. (Ard Boyz, GT's, Nova open) You are only required to give the list to your opponent. Clarify at the beginning of the game what units are in what transports. And lastly answer any questions when asked by your opponent. As for reminding him all the time what unit is where is totally up to you, but by no means required to do said practice.

So then when the opponent asks again, what special weapons the pack in the rhino advancing towards his line is equipped with, despite me already handing over my list, explaining each squad, I will still need to answer his question? Kinda floors me that I am going to have to hold an opponents hand and remove the need for him to pay attention to what he is facing.



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Corrode wrote:Page 92 - a note on secrecy. Generally it's up to you and your opponent to decide whether you're playing closed-list, open-list, 'I can see your list once and then it's up to me to remember it' etc.

I've typically found in both friendly and tournament play that the expectation is that if at any point I want to check which unit is where or in which transport then that's my prerogative and you should be prepared to answer. Whether or not that's an actual rule is up to an individual TO or your agreement before the game, but I doubt you'd get much traction.

On a personal note, I'd find it rather rude of you to hide gear in a typical game of 40k - the purpose of the WYSIWYG rule is that I am able to tell visually what each unit has, and circumventing that by popping them in a transport doesn't really sit with me.

How is it rude to not help you beat me?

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

Short answer:

If your opponent asks, then yes.

I really don't see the problem. He probably played many rhino-chassis-vehicles containing lots of random stuff before, might not even be familliar with Spacewolves at all, or can't see your runes as clearly as you do. People never seem do be able to tell my three units of boyz appart, they have different colors painted on their shoulder pads, pants and helmets and are even equipped differently by WYSIWYG. Still people are all stupedfied when I start rolling saves for the orange boyz all sporting helmets and huge spikey armor pads, unaware that they were 'ard boyz, while showing the same surprise when the yellow collored boyz start shooting, even though they all are holding shootaz, have no armor pads or choppas.

The only other option you have is remaining silent and staring down your opponent, or telling him to go check the lists you gave him. Both makes you a very unpleasant opponent.

martin74 wrote:i have no issue reminding them of what squd is where, however, i dont allow them to change there move with there models once they have them dictated to something certain.

case in point. my opponent went to shoot the chimera my plasma vets were in. when he asked what was in there, i told him. his reply was to move dreadnaught back to its original spot and them move to the chimera where the melta vets were in. thats a no go. once you commit a movement, it is done.

This.

You should have no issue answering him if he ever asks what is in the transport. Even if it appears he might be a bit slow after the third or fourth time explaining it to him. However if you have told him, he has a copy of the list, and STILL makes a mistake in moving a vehicle too close to the melta squad then that is a mistake on his part. You should not allow him to move the model back if he asks you for the fifth time once he has moved it.

The easiest way I have found to show what units are in what transport is to keep the models on the edge of the playing field in line with said transports. Your opponent can just look.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Corrode wrote:Page 92 - a note on secrecy. Generally it's up to you and your opponent to decide whether you're playing closed-list, open-list, 'I can see your list once and then it's up to me to remember it' etc.

I've typically found in both friendly and tournament play that the expectation is that if at any point I want to check which unit is where or in which transport then that's my prerogative and you should be prepared to answer. Whether or not that's an actual rule is up to an individual TO or your agreement before the game, but I doubt you'd get much traction.

On a personal note, I'd find it rather rude of you to hide gear in a typical game of 40k - the purpose of the WYSIWYG rule is that I am able to tell visually what each unit has, and circumventing that by popping them in a transport doesn't really sit with me.

How is it rude to not help you beat me?

How can you not consider it rude to ignore or refuse to answer a question of fact?

Your opponent: "Which squad was in that transport again?"
You: "I'm sorry, I already told you once."

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

It's turn four, your units have gotten out of their transports and possibly gotten back into other transports. Your opponent asks you to remind him which unit is in one of your transports.

Refusing to remind your opponent which unit just got into the transport is asking to get accused of cheating, or worse.

I am of the opinion that after handing a copy of the army list over and explaining Grey Hunter pack composition at deployment as I mentioned above, I have done my fair share of sharing army information.

As I mentioned, the models on the table do not have our god-like knowledge of the battlefield. After the initial exchange of information, why continue giving god-like information to the opponent if they cannot remember or check the army list themselves? Sportsmanship?

Move-backs are not even being considered here. That is even worse then asking for squad comp IMO.


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solkan wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:

Corrode wrote:Page 92 - a note on secrecy. Generally it's up to you and your opponent to decide whether you're playing closed-list, open-list, 'I can see your list once and then it's up to me to remember it' etc.

I've typically found in both friendly and tournament play that the expectation is that if at any point I want to check which unit is where or in which transport then that's my prerogative and you should be prepared to answer. Whether or not that's an actual rule is up to an individual TO or your agreement before the game, but I doubt you'd get much traction.

On a personal note, I'd find it rather rude of you to hide gear in a typical game of 40k - the purpose of the WYSIWYG rule is that I am able to tell visually what each unit has, and circumventing that by popping them in a transport doesn't really sit with me.

How is it rude to not help you beat me?

How can you not consider it rude to ignore or refuse to answer a question of fact?

Your opponent: "Which squad was in that transport again?"
You: "I'm sorry, I already told you once."

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

It's turn four, your units have gotten out of their transports and possibly gotten back into other transports. Your opponent asks you to remind him which unit is in one of your transports.

Refusing to remind your opponent which unit just got into the transport is asking to get accused of cheating, or worse.

This is on the front and sides of each of my Rhinos:



Those corresponding runes are also on each of my Grey Hunter packs. So there is no shenanigans being done at deployment.

Now in the situation you bring up in that one pack is killed, and another pack has their designated transport blown up, I am going to point to said unit and declare to my opponent,

"This unit is embarking in this rhino."

But by your standard from then on I would be required to pretty much remind him,

"Be sure not to get your armor too close to that rhino, it has dual meltaguns now."

or

"Be sure not to get your marines too close to that rhino, it has dual plasmaguns now."

or

"Be sure and not get your bugs too close to that rhino, it has dual flamers now."

So by your standard I am going to feed tactical advice to my opponent because he is too lazy and inattentive to listen and remember what is what in my army despite me already informing him multiple times throughout the game as situations change?

The Note on Secrecy does indeed state that, while full list/composition is not necessary to give over; who is in what transport should always be known/freely given if asked.

That said their are 2 easy ways to do this:
1) Place your squad leader(or a special weapon trooper/ whatever else that makes that unit easily identified as the unit on the sideboard) on top of the transport(remember that Special weapon troopers, Heavy weapon troopers, and Sgts should all be WYSIWYG)

2)Do as Brother Ramses does, adding the same squad markings to the squads transport, and only transport units inside their own transports. Default to method 1 for any non-dedicated transports that are carrying a squad.

There is a 3rd way: which is to simply inform the opponent any time he asks.

The bit in "Note on Secrecy" stating transport contents must always be told; is a very good anti-cheating rule. If you did not have to remind your opponent(even if just when asked); the game would be open to effectively equipping every transport with Web-way access that allows units in transports to instantly hop from transport to transport. Downside is that it does remove the tactical option to Feint with an empty transport(maybe rushing it straight towards a Heavy tank) to either force a withdrawal from an area, or as bait to get an assault ready unit to crack the transport to get at the meat and find it empty.

Brother Ramses, are you aware that only one codex in the game prohibits one unit from using another unit's transport during the game? So marking your transports and marking your units does NOT without doubt indicate which unit is inside any given transport.

That is why it is necessary to be willing to answer the question "Which unit is in that transport?"

From Ramses appended post; I think I see the disconnect he is making.

Ramses; You do not have to feed tactical advise to the opponent; your method works fine, with 1 slight alteration:

Should your opponent ask, you must tell.

You do not have to remind your opponent that he is making a tactical mistake by moving choice targets within range of specific transports(especially as you have already informed him once that a given transport is carrying anti-that unit weapons), but if he asks you must then remind him.

Ex: If your Nid opponent just blindly moves a unit of 'Gants to within Template range of your Rhino carrying double-flamers; you can let him do it, and he can suffer the consequences of his blunder. However, if the nid player is about to move his 'Gants, and asks you if that is the transport that houses the double-flamers, you then have to tell him "yes, yes it is"(Alternately if he asks which unit is in that transport, you can simply tell him: "Unit Fehu" and as you had given him your list already he can look up unit fehu, to see that they are Double-flamers. Or, you could just point to the squad on your sideboard and say "that one")

i always place the Special weapon carrier and sergeant on the top of my transports.

that way there is no confusion

solkan wrote:Brother Ramses, are you aware that only one codex in the game prohibits one unit from using another unit's transport during the game? So marking your transports and marking your units does NOT without doubt indicate which unit is inside any given transport.

That is why it is necessary to be willing to answer the question "Which unit is in that transport?"

The point about pack markings solves the deployment of units in other transports unless you have then unmounted in your deployment zone and then mount them up in different dedicated transports which you would still be declaring to your opponent in;

"This unit is mounting up in this rhino."

So that is covered even at the beginning of the game.

As I mentioned as situations change with destroyed dedicated transports and other units embarking, you also declare that to an opponent as well when you embark them. Now if I am already openly declaring which unit is embarked in which unit at deployment, declaring which unit is embarking as the situation changes with destroyed transports and different units embarking, why is my opponent then expecting me to then continue to give him tactical advice via retelling him what is what time and time again so he can make the best possible moves for his army?

If was open about the squad composition, if was open about the pack marking/transport markings, and if was open about different packs embarking in different transports, at what point am I just holding an opponent by his hand because he cannot remember or is not paying attention?


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Kommissar Kel wrote:From Ramses appended post; I think I see the disconnect he is making.

Ramses; You do not have to feed tactical advise to the opponent; your method works fine, with 1 slight alteration:

Should your opponent ask, you must tell.

You do not have to remind your opponent that he is making a tactical mistake by moving choice targets within range of specific transports(especially as you have already informed him once that a given transport is carrying anti-that unit weapons), but if he asks you must then remind him.

Ex: If your Nid opponent just blindly moves a unit of 'Gants to within Template range of your Rhino carrying double-flamers; you can let him do it, and he can suffer the consequences of his blunder. However, if the nid player is about to move his 'Gants, and asks you if that is the transport that houses the double-flamers, you then have to tell him "yes, yes it is"(Alternately if he asks which unit is in that transport, you can simply tell him: "Unit Fehu" and as you had given him your list already he can look up unit fehu, to see that they are Double-flamers. Or, you could just point to the squad on your sideboard and say "that one")

There is no disconnect.

I am making the point that by telling him what is inside, you are pretty much warning him what not to do. Of course he could still do it anyway, but for all intents or purposes you are putting a huge warning sign on your units for your opponent when he asks you what is inside.

The examples I have given are not what I would be saying at all, but by telling a guy that the rhino he was planning on trying blow up and assault next turn with his dread is loaded up with meltaguns, the guy then has the option, by information you have given, to then not move forward with his plan. Sounds like giving tactical advice to an opponent to me.

Brother Ramses wrote:But by your standard from then on I would be required to pretty much remind him,

"Be sure not to get your armor too close to that rhino, it has dual meltaguns now."

or

"Be sure not to get your marines too close to that rhino, it has dual plasmaguns now."

or

"Be sure and not get your bugs too close to that rhino, it has dual flamers now."

So by your standard I am going to feed tactical advice to my opponent because he is too lazy and inattentive to listen and remember what is what in my army despite me already informing him multiple times throughout the game as situations change?

No one is expecting you to give anyone else tactical advice.

Not to be mean, but no-one cares what runes you painted on your vehicles. I'll admire a good paint job, but I rarely even think about the vehicle paint scheme during the battle. Most people don't correspond their transports with specific squads like that so they can switch things around and change up their list. Assuming people will know what you're doing with your runes and markings is not a good idea.

Unless you've agreed with your opponent beforehand that you want to play a game that uses secrecy, then yes, you have to disclose the contents of transports, statline characteristics and wargear of your units/models whenever your opponent asks. It's very nice of you (and usually required during tournaments) to provide your army list but unless the opponent is very familiar with your army, it's generally easier to just ask "Hey, what's in that?" or "Hey, Saga of the Bear does what again?"

Granted, I understand it could get tiresome if your opponent keeps asking the same question over and over, but them's the breaks. However, if it does become an issue, it would be acceptable to politely remind them that they have a copy of your list if they want to look up any of the related information.

Above all, remember you're playing a game and it's supposed to be fun for both of you. Being rude or complaining that someone isn't smart enough to follow the game isn't very sportsmanlike at all. In the end, if it really bothers you that much, then don't play that person again. I seriously doubt they'll want to play you again either.

DoW

Brother Ramses wrote:

solkan wrote:Brother Ramses, are you aware that only one codex in the game prohibits one unit from using another unit's transport during the game? So marking your transports and marking your units does NOT without doubt indicate which unit is inside any given transport.

That is why it is necessary to be willing to answer the question "Which unit is in that transport?"

The point about pack markings solves the deployment of units in other transports unless you have then unmounted in your deployment zone and then mount them up in different dedicated transports which you would still be declaring to your opponent in;

"This unit is mounting up in this rhino."

So that is covered even at the beginning of the game.

As I mentioned as situations change with destroyed dedicated transports and other units embarking, you also declare that to an opponent as well when you embark them. Now if I am already openly declaring which unit is embarked in which unit at deployment, declaring which unit is embarking as the situation changes with destroyed transports and different units embarking, why is my opponent then expecting me to then continue to give him tactical advice via retelling him what is what time and time again so he can make the best possible moves for his army?

If was open about the squad composition, if was open about the pack marking/transport markings, and if was open about different packs embarking in different transports, at what point am I just holding an opponent by his hand because he cannot remember or is not paying attention?

I don't think you understand the problem with the behavior your describing.

Assume for a moment that you were playing a game and got momentarily distracted while your opponent was embarking troops. You look back to the table and ask your opponent what happened. Your opponent replies, "I already told you. Why weren't you paying attention?"

Or your opponent rolls to hit against your unit, tells you how many saves you need to make, and when you ask him to repeat it, he says, "I already told you. Why aren't you rolling your saves yet?"

That's the sort of behavior that you're describing, when you state that you don't want to remind your opponent which unit is in which of your transports.

By the same token that the units on the battlefield wouldn't necessarily know what units are in which transports (unless they're open topped, which makes the 'fluff vs. rulez' point moot), they would, if having seen that unit get into that transport, or having had strategic information on the units and their deployments, be able to remember which is worse for who a lot better than an untrained, relatively uninvolved (they're not the ones gonna get killed if they make a mistake) Titan-sized being directing them.

Brother Ramses wrote:How is it rude to not help you beat me?

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

Situation A: I move a tank towards your Rhino. In your turn you melta it to death and I get upset because you didn't warn me that that Rhino had the melta squad in.
Situation B: I ask which of your Rhinos has the melta squad in. I then do not move towards it.

Do you see the difference between these two things? It's one thing to not play my game for me (I don't do it for other people either) but to ignore a direct question because of some rubbish about pack markings (which is not a foolproof system as units are perfectly capable of swapping transports mid-game for whatever reason) is extremely rude.

So what exactly is your goal?

A) Spring traps on unatentive players?

B) Spend less time explaining what unit is where?

If it's A), sorry. Warhammer40k is an all open-handed game. No hidden aces, no "I activate my trap card!"-yelling. Refusing to tell the contents of a vehicle to someone asking is the same as lying to them.

If it's B), put the special weapon on top of the rhino. Built little trays or flag poles for your runes. If someone is extremely stupid about it, then tell them to check the list.

Rollbacks are never allowed, even the BRB says so on page 11. Disclaimer: House rules and friendly enviroments are free to break any amount of written rules.


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Also full agree to Corrode. Sitiation A is not you're fault. You are not responsible for your opponent making stupid moves. You are only required to supply information if he requests it.

No individual units do not have the "God-like" view of the battlefield that we players have, but then we players are not representing any units on the battlefield: we are the high-command, the generals in bunkers with monitoring equipment and support staff all around us. From our position we have the "god-like" view, and the staffing/equipment/alien equivalent the keep track of all the information going on on the battlefield.

When your opponent is asking for a reminder, he is not asking for tactical advise; He is asking for a :Bleep: reminder.

There is a Disconnect, Ramses; all your assumptions is based on you giving advise or unwarranted warnings. That is not at all the case. All you are doing is sitting back and allowing your opponent to make any tactical mistakes he wants until such time as he directly asks you if a given transport is holding a squad and which squad is it holding.


I am putting this as a stand-alone to emphasize the point: If your opponent doesn't ask what the transport's contents are, you do not have to tell him beyond original deployment or embarkation

Corrode wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:How is it rude to not help you beat me?

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

Situation A: I move a tank towards your Rhino. In your turn you melta it to death and I get upset because you didn't warn me that that Rhino had the melta squad in.
Situation B: I ask which of your Rhinos has the melta squad in. I then do not move towards it.

Do you see the difference between these two things? It's one thing to not play my game for me (I don't do it for other people either) but to ignore a direct question because of some rubbish about pack markings (which is not a foolproof system as units are perfectly capable of swapping transports mid-game for whatever reason) is extremely rude.

Are you even paying attention?

How about you add a couple of situations:

Situation C: You remember from the deployment phase where I already told you that that specific rhino is carrying a Grey Hunter pack with meltas and you DON'T move towards it.

or

Situation B: You remember in the turn before when I declared that a unit with meltaguns was embarking in that rhino and you DON'T move towards it.

No, but I can totally see how me having to hold your hand totally makes sense in a game that pretty much revolves around tactics.

I notice you keep ignoring that when a pack has to switch transports you declare that the unit is embarking.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Corrode wrote:Page 92 - a note on secrecy. Generally it's up to you and your opponent to decide whether you're playing closed-list, open-list, 'I can see your list once and then it's up to me to remember it' etc.

I've typically found in both friendly and tournament play that the expectation is that if at any point I want to check which unit is where or in which transport then that's my prerogative and you should be prepared to answer. Whether or not that's an actual rule is up to an individual TO or your agreement before the game, but I doubt you'd get much traction.

On a personal note, I'd find it rather rude of you to hide gear in a typical game of 40k - the purpose of the WYSIWYG rule is that I am able to tell visually what each unit has, and circumventing that by popping them in a transport doesn't really sit with me.

How is it rude to not help you beat me?

If we played, you would have in your hand a copy of my army list. I would point out my three rhinos at deployment, all marked with pack runes, and tell you which is in each rhino;

"This rhino has a GH pack with 2 meltasguns, this rhino has a GH pack with 2 flamers, and this rhino has a pack with 2 plasmaguns."

Now in turn 3 or 4, you move a dreadnought towards a rhino, and I pop out of the hatch and slag him with meltaguns, it was my responsibility to inform you that there were meltas in that rhino prior to you moving towards it despite me clearing outlining already what was inside said rhino not only in my list but also at deployment?

Firstly, you aren't actual reading what people are posting - no-one said you had to keep reminding your opponent but you have to answer if he asks.

Secondly, you came and asked a question and then argued with the response you got. Clearly, you had already made your mind up before you asked. You want to tell us about the incident which prompted you to ask the question?

Jidmah wrote:So what exactly is your goal?

A) Spring traps on unatentive players?

B) Spend less time explaining what unit is where?

If it's A), sorry. Warhammer40k is an all open-handed game. No hidden aces, no "I activate my trap card!"-yelling. Refusing to tell the contents of a vehicle to someone asking is the same as lying to them.

If it's B), put the special weapon on top of the rhino. Built little trays or flag poles for your runes. If someone is extremely stupid about it, then tell them to check the list.

Rollbacks are never allowed, even the BRB says so on page 11. Disclaimer: House rules and friendly enviroments are free to break any amount of written rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also full agree to Corrode. Sitiation A is not you're fault. You are not responsible for your opponent making stupid moves. You are only required to supply information if he requests it.

Do you understand that continually telling your opponent what is inside transports after you already have is pretty much eliminating your opponent from making stupid moves that you mention is not my responsibility?

Whoever talked about fluff above, it even makes less sense.

Dreadnought: "Commander, I do not remember what that enemy unit is capable of doing despite seeing them out in the open earlier."
Commander: "Well lets open up a communications link to them and ask their commander!"