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Howdy all,

Been a long time since I played and the new GK have roped me back in (I used to be an IG player). So after some research and time appreciation, I figure I can get involved in a tournament in late July, if I get my painting as a priority. List below, followed by some basic tactics.

HQ

Lord Crowe - 150pts

Elites

Techmarine - 146pts
w/ 2 x servi skulls
w/ Orbital Bombardment

Troops

8 x Purifiers - 251pts
1 x daemon hammer
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

8 x Purifiers - 251pts
1 x deamon hammer
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

8 x Purifiers - 251pts
1 x daemon hammer
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

5 x Purifiers - 205pts
2 x incinerators
1 x Razorback
w/ psybolt asslt cannon

5 x Strike Squad - 180pts
1 x Razorback
w/ Twinlinked LC

Heavy Support

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Total: 1839pts (11pts spare)
Models: 36 Infantry, 3 Walkers, 5 Vehicles

Thoughts:

There are lots of troops choices in this, so the taking of objectives is my main focus. The 3 purifier squads will assault the most open flank, with the goal of clearing that area and taking objectives, or what ever the missions goal is.

The dreadnaught group should be able to destroy armour and walkers, whilst defending the central objectives (or at least contest them). The Techmarine will give them some longevity, whilst dropping the orbital bombardment around what ever seems to be asking for it.

The two razorbacks with the smaller squads are essentially the reserves of the army. I can place them on my open flank to repel an assault or I can use them to chase off infiltrators or anything that deepstrikes around the dreadnaught centre piece.

Some questions:

I've heard the Razorback LC is a waste of points, but its my only real AP 14 machine (the dreads can just get in). Thoughts?

Should I be getting some points for an assassin? Vindicare seems the obvious choice in this army.

What should I do with the 11pts spare? I'm thinking a weapon for one of my squads.... psycannons seem to be coming up on everyones lists.....

Hit me with it

Eagle

Crowe! If you are going to use him Please Please Please consider the following advice- Drop a Drednought and take Karamazov with your points. Using his 'By any means necessary' rule allows you to, when Crowe is in combat, Drop a Barrage bomb on him and blow the living hack out of your enemys. Crowes armour save should keep him alive, and it cant ID him. Its an effective anti-hoard como. Also, If you go p against an enemy Chracter, Use a lance strike. The likelyhod is the enemy will die, and even if he dosent, Crowes heroic sacrifice should kill the tattered remains of the enemy off- Almost certain Instant death, no amour save.

Also, I'd drop the Strike squad and the Razorback in favour of a vindicare Assasin. then the other 35 pts can be spent on either upgrades like truesilver armour or even good old Extra armour for the other razorback, or a LC for one of your Dreds. And fnaly, any leftover points After THAT...

Give a purifier squad an Incinerator.

I really like this tactic! I'm just toying with it in my head and seeing if it has other uses.

IMO he's a little expensive for my style of play - He won't be fast enough to keep up with my assault, and him lumbering up the battlefield would see him shot to all hell. So I guess I could use him to repel any attacks - whilst he bombs everything with his orbital strikes - I'll admit it would be rather fun dropping two each turn.

I'll have to work him into my 'fluff' as I was going for a mechanised GK 'scouting' force.

I really wanted the vindicare assassin, but I really can't see him earning his points back. The strike squad can hold a table corner or objective in my deployment zone - which is what makes them appealing.

I need to re-jig some points to get Karamazov in..wait out for more

Well, ican see the fluff already. grey Knights scouting for Daemons, Karamazov in the area, joins them because they are bound to find him Heretics.

He is mechanised. And of course, that throne of his gives him a 2+ armour save and a long ranged melta gun, if you want a lightly more accurate anti-tank thing than the lance strike.

the good news is, If Crowe assaults tanks, you can use the lance strike then as well, take out a land raider in one go. I can see the ook on your opponents face. He says 'What? You are carging an armour 14 tank with one dude who cant hurt it?' Then you lance strike it. He will sceam.

Belive me Karamaov will be more than worth it.

Also, the Vindicare will earn his points back. With consumate ease i have used a single one over a 6 turn game, killing the emperos cahpion, a chapter master and a pesky Melta marine. Never missed, never failed to wound. No invuns? Dead.

HQ

Lord Crowe - 150pts

Inquisitor Karamavov - 200pts

Elites

Techmarine - 146pts
w/ 2 x servi skulls
w/ Orbital Bombardment

Troops

8 x Purifiers - 251pts
1 x daemon hammer
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

8 x Purifiers - 241pts
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

8 x Purifiers - 241pts
7 x halberds
1 x Rhino

5 x Purifiers - 205pts
2 x incinerators
1 x Razorback
w/ psybolt asslt cannon

Heavy Support

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Dreadnaught - 135pts
w/ 2 x psybolt twinlinked autocannons

Total: 1839pts (11pts spare)
Models: 31 Infantry, 3 Walkers, 5 Vehicles and Karamazov (he looks like a walker )

The advantage here is the obvious ploy Karamazov uses...but I now only have four scoring units - so the best I can hope for is to control two corners and contest one. I can still dominate one flank, and I am a small ability to repel an attack on the other.... I've kept the three dreads...simply to dominate the centre.

Who would you be shooting at, to give me an idea of what my opponent might be thinking...

Thoughts?

use those 11 points to get Truesilver armour and/or Extra armour and/or any one other upgrade of your choosing. On the Razorback of course.

then, i like the list alot. I finally foun a use for Crowe!

Drop one Dreadnought and give all of the Purifiers 2x Psycannons. You are pitifully low on ranged firepower, and losing one Dread for 8 Psycannons is a HUGE boost. Purifiers can afford the drop in melee potential to take the Psycannons, and it lets them bust open a transport before assaulting what's inside.

Otherwise, I like the combo, and I'm gonna have to give this a shot. Sounds interesting.

Aldarionn wrote:Drop one Dreadnought and give all of the Purifiers 2x Psycannons. You are pitifully low on ranged firepower, and losing one Dread for 8 Psycannons is a HUGE boost. Purifiers can afford the drop in melee potential to take the Psycannons, and it lets them bust open a transport before assaulting what's inside.

Otherwise, I like the combo, and I'm gonna have to give this a shot. Sounds interesting.

Good point but your slightly biased considering you play Long Fangs (I assume so anyway)
The psycannon's will be able to pump out more shot's anyway so no harm done.

Kaptin Grigger wrote:the good news is, If Crowe assaults tanks, you can use the lance strike then as well, take out a land raider in one go. I can see the ook on your opponents face. He says 'What? You are carging an armour 14 tank with one dude who cant hurt it?' Then you lance strike it. He will sceam.

Also, the Vindicare will earn his points back. With consumate ease i have used a single one over a 6 turn game, killing the emperos cahpion, a chapter master and a pesky Melta marine. Never missed, never failed to wound. No invuns? Dead.

The OSR is a shooting attack. Crowe charges in the assault phase. In order for this tactic (lance striking Crowe to take out AV 14) the enemy tank must not move out of the way for their turn and Crowe must survive.

Vindare will surely rule.

InquisitorVaron wrote:
Good point but your slightly biased considering you play Long Fangs (I assume so anyway)
The psycannon's will be able to pump out more shot's anyway so no harm done.

I do play Long Fangs, but I don't see how that makes me biased. Actually Psyrifleman Dreads and Long Fangs are basically on par with eachother. The Dread has 4 shots at S8 AP4 and can reroll to hit. The Long Fangs have 5 shots at S8 AP3 and can split fire, but cannot reroll. The Dread can ignore anti-infantry fire, and the Long Fangs can ignore anti-tank fire. They fill the exact same role on the battlefield and for almost identical points they both do it quite well. I only run 2x packs of Long Fangs, so it stands to reason that I would usually run 2x Dreads, because they offer almost the same firepower for the same points.

Other than that, it's simple math. 4x TL Autocannon shots with +1 Strength on a single vehicle unit are not mathematically as good as 16-32 Psycannon shots (depending on how I fire the weapon) spread out across my infantry, even with the shorter range.

Think shunt DK would work better with Inquisitor Karamavov his 'By any means necessary' SR . I'd drop OSR from techmarine just because of its move or fire nature amd get soome pyscannons.

I am trying to avoid the psycannons, as I'm hoping to be in combat with those guy as soon as possible.

The trade off of one dread for 6/8 psycannons is a great trade - providing that the units are able to hit targets - its my goal to keep them in cover for a as much as possible, with the vehicles running at max speed.

I played IG for way to long to fall into another shooty army.

I will build a smaller 500/1000pt army and after a few games I'll see how effective my fellas are in combat- if they are no good...then it'll be time for some serious changes.

Forge World had run out of left arm autocannons ahhaha


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just had a thought. A Callidus Assassin would be gold in this list.

Picture - The Purifiers screaming down one side of the board, with the dreads hitting what ever in the centre. The obvious re-action is to shoot back and position yourself for a flank sided game. You could either attack the other flank, to secure objectives or fight on your side of the board. Then the assassin pops up in one of your units - D6 AP1 attacks, followed by a template AP2 attack (this would really hurt terminator units).

I'd have to lose a dread for this fella..... and doing this would make me get rid of the techmarine and make the remaining dreads venerable (for staying power)

Eagle

Thoughts?

Hmm... That Calidus strategy has one horrible horrible problem- the neural shredder targets the terminator leadership of 9. It wounds on 5's. And of course, they can counter charge next turn. If its paladins, It'll rip the livng (please do not swear) out of the calidus.

By the way, the point about the anti-tank thing- this IS true, but remember, Crowe can Move before Karamazov can shoot. So unless the tank moves all out to escape the coming fury, Crowe will still be able to be a locator for Karamazov to take it out. And that WAS a bit of imaginative work. The better tactic is of course, Put crowe in CC with and MC and drop the Lance, or EVEN BETTER- Charge him into large infantry swarms and drop barrage bombs.

For example, Crowe goes into combat with 20 hormagaunts. He kills 2, and they wound him once in return. Pile in. Karamazov fires his OSR into combat, barrage bomb. He rollis the full 3, most likely hitting about 8 gaunts at one time- if you can do this, and you do wound 5 times out of 6, you are going to be killing... well, the full 20. Even if Crowe fails to kill the 2 aforemetioned gaunts, the barrage bombs are going to kill off the unit. And crowe simply needs to make 3 2+ armour saves.

Grigger,

I agree in the time that I use him against terminators (or heaven forbid paladins). I get D6 AP1 attacks - so lets say I take a wound off (two if I'm lucky), then I take another off with the shredder.... then..... what's that noise?

LANCE STRIKE. Remember he just turned up beside your Terminators (probably your commander) and I should be able to instant death 3 of you 5...maybe six man squad..

I will use him to hit tricky units that my assaulting flank just wont get to throughout the game. Like long range infantry units (devastator Squads) or really scary command units (paladins and a commander as an example). He is essentially a suicide unit.

I'm not completely sold on using Crowe as a suicide unit... it feels wrong. I wish that GK had more power armour HQ choices - The Battle Brother is a bit weak with few options in big games.

*sigh*

Well, when you put it that way... By all means, suicide strike your Callidus.

On the point about Crowe... it's not suicide. The barrage bomb is of course, unale to pierce crowes armour. The lance strike, that allows him to use 'Heroic Sacrife' as well, dosent it? Its a Heroic Sacrifice. And plus, even if you dont use him like that, he is on his own, the enemy get furious charge aganst him and He has 4+ rending attacks. No power weapon. Rending on a 2+: i would have him out there in an instant. 4+: not so much. It dosent exactly 'feel' legendary, considering Skultaker does the same. And about 3 other guys who i cant remember the names of.

Kharn. Thats a legend and a half.

mmm 2+ artificer armour save against a barrage bomb (str 6 ap4) so yeah survivable on a 1/6th chance, and theres also a chance he wont even get wounded.

as for the Heroic strike, read it again, can only work when he dies in the assault phase :(

interesting tactic though, but i can think of a few other targets that would work fine too, the callidus or any assassin ofc as theyre on their own, perhaps a shunting interceptor squad down to one or two men,

any small unit in combat against a larger unit,

perhaps even an empty rhino (tho its a bit big for the small blast template for lancing, i dunno can you put the template on a corner of the vehicle?)


anyway its a nice devious tactic to use, because you have to keep 1" away from any unit in the movement phase, and the template is 3" in diameter so theres like a 0.5" of room to make sure the lance touches for full effect.
who says we dont have long range firepower

Why is that Crowe cannot join a squad?

I must be blind I cannot find it in the rules

If anyone would comment on my 100pts S.O.A.B list, you'd see i have the same tactics. I also (devilish grin) have a unit of crusaders for the same purpose. 3+ invun against lance strike?

FIRE AWAY!

Why is that Crowe cannot join a squad?

I must be blind I cannot find it in the rules

The blade of (please don't swear)ing Antwyr- Its so evil, all his friends hate him. Or he stays away from them becaus he dosen't want tyo taint the or... something like that anyway.

No, he cannot Join Squads.

Eagleeye wrote:Why is that Crowe cannot join a squad?

I must be blind I cannot find it in the rules

From a pure rules perspective, it's because he doesn't have the Independent Character special rule.

Personally, I think this is more for balance than anything else - stick him in a squad of Purifiers and suddenly that squad becomes a lot nastier - it can re-roll all its missed to-hit rolls, but before that, it can pull off cleansing flame twice!

Actual fluff aside, I like to think it's also because he's the That Guy of the Purifiers, and nobody wants to be in a unit with him.

Whilst the above is true, it is mainly down to fuff reasons IMO.

Yea fluff... *mumble*

Just really annoying there are limited power armour options for HQ units. I really don't like the idea of terminators (I have no reason why - they just don't suit my style of play maybe?)

What does lance strike do?

Kaptin Grigger wrote:Crowe! If you are going to use him Please Please Please consider the following advice- Drop a Drednought and take Karamazov with your points. Using his 'By any means necessary' rule allows you to, when Crowe is in combat, Drop a Barrage bomb on him and blow the living hack out of your enemys. Crowes armour save should keep him alive, and it cant ID him. Its an effective anti-hoard como. Also, If you go p against an enemy Chracter, Use a lance strike. The likelyhod is the enemy will die, and even if he dosent, Crowes heroic sacrifice should kill the tattered remains of the enemy off- Almost certain Instant death, no amour save.

Also, I'd drop the Strike squad and the Razorback in favour of a vindicare Assasin. then the other 35 pts can be spent on either upgrades like truesilver armour or even good old Extra armour for the other razorback, or a LC for one of your Dreds. And fnaly, any leftover points After THAT...

Give a purifier squad an Incinerator.

OT: THX U 4 THE AWESOME STRATEHGEH

On topic now I would just try to make at least one of the dreadnoughts venerable or add EA I would also try to have full squads of 10 purifiers since with them you can get 4 psycannons or incinerators or psilencers in my list i have 4 squads of 10 making 2 squads with 4 psycannons another squad with 4 incinerators and a last with 4 pslinsers for variation I wouldnt take the techmarine either since bombardments arent very reliable



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:What does lance strike do?

Its a strike that is
str 10, ap1 , heavy 1, small pie plate , and unsurprisingly a lance weapon (take that de!)

It's not even that he's the "That Guy" of the purifiers, it's more that his sword is the most heinously evil Daemon Blade in creation with the possible exception of Abbadon's sword, and he cannot allow the taint of the blade to corrupt his fellow warriors. As such, he never gets near them, and they (wisely) stay clear. No Grey Knight has fallen to the taint of Chaos, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T happen by extraordinary means, and you can bet the farm that nobody wants to be the first. They respect his courage, devotion and purity......and they stay the hell out of his way.

As for the argument against taking psycannons....If you look at a model-by-model statistical analysis, each Halberd model will kill .96 MEQ's on a round it assaults and each Psycannon will kill .74 MEQ's. This means your units of 8 with no Psycannons will kill 6.72 MEQ's and with 2x Psycannons they would kill 6.28 (without Cleansing Flame or Hammerhand of course, and before the Daemon Hammer attacks). The difference against baseline infantry is .44 MEQ's, and the unit with the Psycannons can reasonably deal with vehicles as well. My point is that the loss you take on anti-infantry damage output is negligible, and the versatility against vehicles is huge.

Why would you limit yourself in the possibility to destroy any vehicle in the game, and then assault what comes out, for a measly .44 more dead Space Marines in combat? Against GEQ's the numbers are actually in favor of the Psycannons.

The math doesn't need to be treated as gospel, but you would be remiss if you didn't at least pay a bit of attention to it and use it as a guideline for what to reasonably expect from your units.

Crowe shouldn't get all the hate he is getting.

I actually think that he's the only character model with a proper profile that represents a brotherhood champion, which I think is tied with grandmaster (Librarian coming in a close second) for my favorite HQ choice based on fluff.

On that note, it seems this thread turned into more of a "How to use lance strike" than anything else. I think your army list is solid. I say play if out and see what happens.

Forum newb.... MEQs? GEQs?