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The hunt for my next competitive army continues... Here's one of my highest considerations (next to my Crimson Fist Drop Pod Sternguard - ref: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/362449.page) It's a DSing MSU Shooty Dark Eldar force which employs small footprint models to basically DS in and wreak havoc the turn they arrive.

There are obviously certain things out there that can ruin my day, but not completely (GK with Warp Quake comes to mind). These guys don't HAVE to DS....they are fine driving on the board or deploying as well. With every vehicle on top of that having an invuln/ability to get 4+ cover, it's pretty hard to hit these things. Anyway...on to the list!



* HQ (150pts)

Duke Sliscus the Serpent - 150


* Elites (519pts)

4x Trueborn - 4x Blaster
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 173

4x Trueborn - 4x Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 173

4x Trueborn - 4x Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 173


* Troops (806pts)

9x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster;
Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Shock Prow - 181

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125


* Heavy Support (375pts)


Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield - 125

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield - 125

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield - 125

===============================================
Total 1850


There you have it folks. Constructive criticism is always appreciated as well as your general thoughts on how the list could perform (or not) against certain other armies. This army could possibly even be expanded to 2500 but that all depends on what I eventually decide to take to 'Ard Boyz (Orks or *new army*). Thanks!

Greetings,

Somebody loves deepstriking, hmmm? Okay, let's see what we can do about improving this list.

Erudog wrote:Duke Sliscus the Serpent - 150

For a DS list with no Wyches you can not really go wrong with this as your selection.

4x Trueborn - 4x Blaster
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 173

Trueblasters are never a bad thing.

9x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster;
Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Shock Prow - 181

I look slightly askance at this setup. First off, N.Shields are not as optimal for DS as they are for gunline builds - especially only on one vehicle, and that being a vehicle that wants to get into 12" range with its targets. The Shock Prow is also kind of a 'meh' for me - you don't have any templates, and you don't have any assault units. So short of trying a last minute shock to contest an objective or using your single most expensive unit to ram things...I don't get it.

Next, and this is a consideration, Trueborn are better with the Duke than Warriors because they can get S.Cannons into their mix while still having space for the Baron to ride. S.Cannons provide you more shots and better range to maximize the advantages of the Duke to the unit. This will cost you a Blaster Boat, but I'll discuss some thoughts with that towards the end.

5x Warriors - Blaster;
Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

One of my single favorite builds, no complaints.

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield - 125

Ravtastic.

Okay, so when I look at your list I see a lot of good things going for it, but I think where you're falling short is in your anti-tank. You've got enough S.Cannons to make a Green Horde quake in its booties, but a fully mechanized list is going to whether your initial drop pretty easily (you'll get 1.5 Ravagers and .5 Raiders on the first drop on average, and nothing else in your army can really affect armor without getting out of their vehicles (not optimal). The immediate solution I see is switching out some Venoms to make them Raiders - you need something to help dull your enemy's armored retaliation the instant you hit the ground, and that means more darklight on your vehicles. Other than that it's a very solid list and pretty close to one I've had a reasonable bit of success with while trying to make DSing work for DE - you're certainly on the right track in focusing on shooting and raw target saturation.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

Thanks for the valuable words of evil, spiky wisdom Thor!

Your suggestion of taking Duke and putting him in a Raider gunboat with Trueborn had crossed my mind, but I didn't think of the fact that they could capitalize on taking the S.Cannons.

I love the Duke, he seems so awesome BUT the one thing that kept picking at me in this list is I have no units I could reroll combat drugs for, except for the Duke himself (possibly giving the unit of Trueborn/Warriors a pain token at the start of the game) I originally tried to fit in a single tarpit Wych raider unit with a haemonculous so that they could benefit from the drug rerolls...but it seemed to detract too much from the list and its style. Admittedly I didn't test that, but just on paper it didn't seem right to me. I also tried Reaver jetbikes...that was a hard sell for me just to be able to use combat drugs...though they are decent AntiTank.

Yeah the Shock Prow was a filler more than anything else. Figured in a game it might come in handy at some point.

Excellent so I'm going to try and make the Trueborn gunboat work and make all the warriors ride in venoms in groups of 5.

My main concern with this list is its execution/deployment. In your opinion is it wise to DS with something like this? Is it a waste if I don't? Is Duke's purpose and points being justified with no units in the list that have combat drugs? Can the list do well as an alpha strike if it has to? Basically I don't want to face a list that can screw my DS's over...and in turn I end up avoiding it and sort of gimping myself right off the bat by having to drive on. The list seems fast enough and shooty enough to saturate my opponent with so many targets that it becomes hard to prioritize. That can be an issue when i'm just coming in piecemeal via DS as well I think. What do you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay here's an updated list. I had another one up here but it was bad Here's a much better list. I'm still debating whether I should take out 1 Warrior venom squad to expand my third Trueborn into a raider with blaster/carbine as well. Not sure it's worth losing 1 troop but even 4 troops seems like it would be okay. In fact, scratching out one Warrior Venom to expand my third Trueborn squad into a duplicate of my existing 10 man Trueborn would put me at 1848. Seems like a tossup...though I'm leaning toward the third Raider. What do you all think?

* HQ (150pts)

Duke Sliscus the Serpent - 150


* Elites (726pts)

10x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster, 6x Shardcarbine; Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Splinter Racks - 300

9x Kabalite Trueborn - 2x Splinter Cannon, 7x Shardcarbine; Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Splinter Racks - 253 *(Duke goes in here)

4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 173


* Troops (625pts)


5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125


* Heavy Support (345pts)

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

I still think you're wasting points on those TB units. TB, IMO, are used for tank hunting and would not make use of the splinter weaponry as much. I'm not saying they cant be kitted out for some pure anti-infantry goodness. But, I am saying that they should be one or the other, not both. Maximize them for their given task. DE are too flimsy to try and make into Tactical Marines. They need to blast or stab something very very well. Your points are not used efficiently right now. I would almost say, if you're trying to stay with the DS theme, get some Scourges. Drop the TB units either to 4born-blasters with dubba-venom or 9born-carbine/cannon on a raider with Sliscus. Then fill the list in with Scourges. Haywire blasters are straight cool, it's practically auto glance. And the range is way better than I thought I was! 24" is nothing to joke about for the DE that plans on DSing. Just my two cents.

More and more I think about it, I think I should make the Trueborn all ride Raiders for the extra lance. Here's my latest list, and I think it should be the best version yet: *Though one note to consider: I think with a list like this, I should be going either all venom, or 3 raider, 4 venom as I am doing here...seems to be the best option of the two, though I need to do some testing to see how it works. *

* HQ (150pts)

Duke Sliscus the Serpent - 150


* Elites (853pts)

10x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster, 6x Shardcarbine; Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Splinter Racks - 300

10x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster, 6x Shardcarbine; Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Splinter Racks - 300

9x Kabalite Trueborn - 2x Splinter Cannon, 7x Shardcarbine; Raider - Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Nightshield, Splinter Racks - 253 *(Duke goes in here)


* Troops (500pts)

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125

5x Kabalite Warriors - Blaster; Venom - Splinter Cannon - 125


* Heavy Support (345pts)

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

Ravager - Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Flickerfield - 115

Do you have any points left over?

You know, I'm trying very hard to get the name "Darklight Storm" spread around for this kind of kabal army.

DE deserve their own "Leafblower" name.

Grim Smasha wrote:Do you have any points left over?

It's at 1848/1850 so it's pretty tight.

Dashofpepper wrote: You know, I'm trying very hard to get the name "Darklight Storm" spread around for this kind of kabal army.

DE deserve their own "Leafblower" name.

I was going for more of a "Sweep the leg" motif



Would love to hear your criticisms of the list as well Dash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should mention the one other thing I have considered for the list is making the other Trueborn in the boats (not the Duke Boat) only 4-5 man with Blasters to possibly open up more room instead of filling out the list like I have now with Trueborn and Shardcarbines when they're not carrying Blasters.

With the extra points I'd consider a 5th Warrior Venom, or I would see if I could fit a specialized Wych unit just for tarpitting things like Dreadnoughts and such with Shardnet, etc. Though it's tough....it's much easier to accomplish once you go into 2000/2500 realms. *Which I do plan to do with this list*

Splinter Racks don't affect Shardcarbines or Splinter Cannons. Only Splinter Pistols and Splinter Rifles.

I like your first list better with the following changes:

(-)Night Shields
(-)Shock Prowl

Giving you 15 points back, enough to trade three Troop Slot Venoms into Raiders with Flickerfields.

Duke

4 Trueborn w/ 4 Blasters and S.C. Venom
4 Trueborn w/ 4 Blasters and S.C. Venom
4 Trueborn w/ 4 Blasters and S.C. Venom

9 Warriors w/ Blaster and Flickerfield Raider (duke here)
5 Warriors w/ Blaster and Flickerfield Raider
5 Warriors w/ Blaster and Flickerfield Raider
5 Warriors w/ Blaster and Flickerfield Raider
5 Warriors w/ Blaster and S.C. Venom
5 Warriors w/ Blaster and S.C. Venom

Ravager w/ Flickerfied and Night Shields
Ravager w/ Flickerfied and Night Shields
Ravager w/ Flickerfied and Night Shields

13 Dark Lances
18 Blasters
10 Splinter Cannons
9 Splinter Rifles wounding on 3+

Oh, and if you lose the roll to go first you reserve everything and come in using Deep Strike if needed.

This ain't Retrofire jets, so after deep striking you may disembark and shoot.

I also like my HQs in troop slot units, dunno why.

Looks like a list Thor would promote. I think that's pretty solid.

I like that list a lot Tavitin. I must have misread the rules for Splinter Racks...being able to take the cannons and the carbines on trueborn is what originally drew me to that idea. You sure it doesn't affect ALL splinter weapons?

If not, then your list and the idea I had in my first list is the ideal option IMO. I feel the same way about the HQ in Troop slots as well...as evidenced by my first list.

Hmm...I need to take a closer look at the codex regarding the Splinter Racks...

The Duke changes all splinter weaponry to 3+ poison

The Racks are only for Pistols and Rifles.

the changed list posted by me was exactly what Thor said in his post, bu also said that you should get rid of the Duke's retinue.

I think you don't need to get rid of that, you can use that unit as an Objective holder more or less.

It's certainly a tough decision to make: Duke with 3+ Shardcarbines/Splinter Cannons or Duke with 3+ Splinter Rifles...the TB have a much longer effective range...the Warriors only have a 6" move with 12" rapid fire range or no move and 24" range. The Duke roaming with the one Splinter Trueborn seems a lot deadlier...hard decision to make though because as you said the warrior retinue is an objective holder and possibly more effective with the Splinter Racks and 3+ poison... HMMM...quite a headscratcher.

Thought I'd post an update of what my latest list iteration is. I this may be the most solid list yet - though more testing will be had.

The previous version with the Warrior boat, rather than the Trueborn boat for Duke, seemed to be giving up a single troop choice too easily to function how it does. Making the Trueborn join the Duke boat instead lets them benefit more from the pain tokens I believe, and the Shard Carbine/Shard Cannon setup with Duke is just brutal - far better than Shard Rifles because my effective shooting range within the boat is now 24" rather than 18". These guys wouldn't be completely horrible in close combat either after a pain token or two. Though this isn't set in stone, I think this may be the better approach - we'll see though...having the Aethersails and all (just filler mainly) would help claim last minute objectives quite far away were it a scoring raider...so it's almost a 50/50 thing...Warriors or Trueborn with Duke...only testing and mainly preference will tell I think.

This way helps me preserve my troops, because let's face it my troops are quite fragile - if they're gone in an objective game, then I can't make my last minute objective claim moves and try to win...I can at best draw. So though I won't change the playstyle of the vehicles getting up in range and spamming Darklight weapons, this should draw some fire away from my troop slot and into my elite slot more often.



HQ - 150

Duke Sliscus - 150


Elites - 584

9x Kabalite Trueborn - 7x Shardcarbine, 2x S. Cannon; Raider - FlickerField, Aethersails - 238
4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster; Venom - Dual S. Cannon - 173
4x Kabalite Trueborn - 4x Blaster; Venom - Dual S. Cannon - 173


Troops - 770

5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Raider - FlickerField - 130
5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Raider - FlickerField - 130
5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Raider - FlickerField - 130
5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Raider - FlickerField - 130
5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Venom - Dual S. Cannon - 125
5x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Blaster; Venom - Dual S. Cannon - 125


Heavy Support - 345

Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, FlickerField - 115
Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, FlickerField - 115
Ravager - 3x Dark Lance, FlickerField - 115

========================================

1849

Looks like it could be a pretty pesky list. You are definitely fast enough to avoid C/C all together. Something thats really going to hurt you is going to be when your vehicles explode your units are going to fallback and never be able to regroup and trust me - open-top vehicles explode.

I think the better build for the true-born would be 2 blaster 2 splinter cannon - or if you must have all blasters take just 3 - they are all going at the same target - save some points and try to get some more mods in your troops squads.

I also don't think the duke is the correct HQ choice for this kind of build but I know you like him so i guess you can make it work. I highly advise against Deep Striking your whole force because you give your opponent the entire table which is almost always an auto loss. The Dukes actual usefulness comes from his 2 roles on the combat drug chart and you have - let me count them - 0 witches.

Last list looks pretty much perfect. Totally streamlined and nothing wasted.

RinesofGlory wrote:Looks like it could be a pretty pesky list. You are definitely fast enough to avoid C/C all together. Something thats really going to hurt you is going to be when your vehicles explode your units are going to fallback and never be able to regroup and trust me - open-top vehicles explode.

I think the better build for the true-born would be 2 blaster 2 splinter cannon - or if you must have all blasters take just 3 - they are all going at the same target - save some points and try to get some more mods in your troops squads.

I also don't think the duke is the correct HQ choice for this kind of build but I know you like him so i guess you can make it work. I highly advise against Deep Striking your whole force because you give your opponent the entire table which is almost always an auto loss. The Dukes actual usefulness comes from his 2 roles on the combat drug chart and you have - let me count them - 0 witches.

The point about Duke is a valid one, and I wouldn't Deepstrike most of my units in most cases...but also remember as DE...Deep Striking is not so bad as you can shoot 1 weapon always from your vehicle, and if you so choose you can disembark in your movement phase and shoot with your passengers as well. It's not the greatest option, but it's a decent option with benefits over other run-of-the-mill DSers.

Also don't overlook the poison upgrade. Being able to pump 29 3+ poison shots at an effective range of 24" is pretty disgusting. It makes the boat a big target, which is fine because there are so many other targets to deal with as well if you're my opponent.

The other reason I really like the Duke is because since I do plan on expanding this army up to 2500; my next additions would be a rock-solid unit or two of 9 Reaver Jet Bikes with an Agonizer and 3 Heat Lances - which would benefit greatly from the Duke's Contraband.

FlingitNow wrote:Last list looks pretty much perfect. Totally streamlined and nothing wasted.

Thanks!
It's liable to change, but for now I think it's really good as well. Still have to test it out some more as I said. And I still would love to hear more criticisms of the list as that will help me understand my weaknesses and strengths even further.