Draigo List 2000 pts.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**loota boy**

Before we start, I would like to say that Paladin hate is not allowed in this thread. I really, really want to feild a paladin army, so comments like "Paladins are terrible, use a purifier list," are not welcome. Now, on to the list.

HQ

Lord Kaldor Draigo
275 pts.

Librarian
shrouding, might of titan
160pts

Troops

10 paladins (draigo joins this squad)
paly 1- Psycannon, force sword
paly 2- Psycannon, daemon hammer
paly 3- Psycannon, halberd
paly 4- master-crafted Psycannon, Halberd
paly 5- brotherhood banner
paly 6- halberd
paly 7- daemon hammer
paly 8- Halberd (justicare)
paly 9- force sword
paly 10- Halberd, master-crafted.
665 pts

5 paladins
paly 1- Psycannon, halberd
paly 2- Psycannon, daemon hammer
paly 3- force sword
paly 4- daemon hammer
paly 5- halberd
315 pts.

5 paladins, like the above.
315 pts.

Heavy Support

Dreadnought, 2 auto cannons, psybolt ammo.
135 pts

Dreadnought, as above.
135 pts

2000 pts on the dot, if my math is correct.

Thoughts?

**kenshin620**

I worry about the dreads. They do bring in much needed long range firepower but they're just 2 dreads in 2k, easy pickings for any amount of anti tank weapons. Maybe drop them for some more paladins? Maybe a libby with some powers and servo skulls to help DS

**ph34r**

2 assault cannon dreads? Might want to read your codex better.

**kenshin620**

He probably meant Autocannons (got to admit, Mortis dreads with psycannons does sound tasty! if only they had a drop pod)

**loota boy**

Yes, Im sorry, I did mean auto cannons. I'll edit it as soon as I can. As for the dreads, even If I did shave them off, I couldn't make a full paladin squad. I was thinking about getting rid of the vindicare and making them venerable, which could jump their survivability a decent amount. What do you think?

**Wolf 11x**

I like the look of this list. I was wondering if you had played it yet and how it performed on the field.

**loota boy**

Wolf 11x wrote:I like the look of this list. I was wondering if you had played it yet and how it performed on the field.

As of yet, no. It is only a rough draft, and I haven't bought any models yet. But I have done exsessive mathhammering, and that ten man play squad can put out about 33 kills after shooting and charging MEQ. Gotta love brotherhood banners. Also, what say you on dropping vindicare to make the dreads venerable?

**Aldarionn**

I would say drop the Vindicare to add an Apothecary to the 10 man unit, and perhaps trade out the smaller units for normal Terminators in order to fit a Librarian in the list. Without FNP and the powers a Librarian brings to the table, your 10 model "Death Star" can more effectively killed by torrent of fire. I'd do something like this:

Draigo - 275
Librarian (Might, Quicksilver, Shrouding, Sanctuary) - 170
10 Paladins - 755
-Apothecary, Sword
-Banner, Psycannon
-MC Psycannon, Sword
-Psycannon, Sword
-Psycannon, Hammer
-MC Sword
-Sword
-MC Falchions
-Falchions
-Hammer
6 Terminators (Psycannon, 4x Halberd, Hammer) - 265
6 Terminators (Psycannon, 4x Halberd, Hammer) - 265
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannons, Psybolt) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannons, Psybolt) - 135
Total 2,000

You have more durable bodies on the field, a Death Star that can shrug off literally anything that's not Instant Death or AP2, and a pair of solid Terminator units and Dreadnoughts for support. The Paladins can also muster up a 3+ cover save if you use the regular Terminators as a screen or advance through cover. They can move and fire just as effectively as standing still, and they kill anything they touch before it gets to attack.

Just my thoughts anyway....

**loota boy**

I'm not really impressed with the Apothecary. 75 pts for fnp that I won't need often isn't my cup of tea. I may drop the vindicare and otherthings for a libby though.

**Aldarionn**

Do the math.....

With FNP that unit can take 360 S4 shots at BS4 before losing a single model, and that's JUST the Paladins, not including Draigo or the Librarian. Without FNP it's half that, which is reasonable for many gunline lists to put out in a few rounds of shooting while dodging a very slow unit with limited ranged abilities. Without FNP, reasonable gunline lists can torrent fire them to the ground. WITH FNP, they can ignore anything but Plasma, Melta, Ordnance and a few other nasty items, and make those a priority. Once your list drops anything that's not capable of ignoring the FNP rolls, or reduces the number enough that Draigo can reliably eat the shots, you can walk through the rest of your opponents list at your leisure. A single 75 point upgrade makes a tough unit into a nearly invulnerable unit, and trivializes some entire armies (Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Space Marines in general, Tau, Tyranids, Orks). Why would you NOT take it?

**Orock**

Any list that neuters the current metagame of missile launchers are king is ok with me. Also paladins are awesome in any game.

**loota boy**

Aldarionn wrote:Do the math.....

With FNP that unit can take 360 S4 shots at BS4 before losing a single model, and that's JUST the Paladins, not including Draigo or the Librarian. Without FNP it's half that, which is reasonable for many gunline lists to put out in a few rounds of shooting while dodging a very slow unit with limited ranged abilities. Without FNP, reasonable gunline lists can torrent fire them to the ground. WITH FNP, they can ignore anything but Plasma, Melta, Ordnance and a few other nasty items, and make those a priority. Once your list drops anything that's not capable of ignoring the FNP rolls, or reduces the number enough that Draigo can reliably eat the shots, you can walk through the rest of your opponents list at your leisure. A single 75 point upgrade makes a tough unit into a nearly invulnerable unit, and trivializes some entire armies (Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Space Marines in general, Tau, Tyranids, Orks). Why would you NOT take it?

There's a thread somewhere in tactics forum descussing just this, and I think it's going to basicly become the thing that grey knight players will never agree on, like with gaurd players on wether you should put sponsons on your vendettas. Without fnp, under your mathhammer, I can take 180 bolter rounds before losing anybody, which i'm comfortable with. Also, it depends on your metagame. At my flgs, no-one plays gaurd or orks, there are only 2 nid players, and one of them does nidzilla. There arn't any horde armies besides myself when I use my orks, and I play ork meks. It's all marines, dark/non-dark eldar, and sprinklings of tau. I don't have too many opponants who can spit out 180 bolter shots a turn. I understand the draw towards the apothecary, but the 225 pts I would spend to get it almost buys me anouther paladin squad. We may just have to agree to disagree here.

**metalgear1313**

i have a question bout the 2 5-man squads. why not combine them into one 10-man unit? later on if you need to split them into the two that's what Combat Squads is for.
OR....... if you need the huge ten man unit you can keep them together for some Riot Control!!!

**Caboose**

Just wanted to point out that your brotherhood banner bearer is illegally equipped. He drops his force weapon for the banner, not his storm bolter.

**Aldarionn**

Caboose wrote:Just wanted to point out that your brotherhood banner bearer is illegally equipped. He drops his force weapon for the banner, not his storm bolter.

This is true, hence why I usually give the Brotherhood Banner a Psycannon, so I can differentiate the Psycannons without having to Master Craft another weapon unnecessarily.

**loota boy**

Sorry, I'll fix it right away. What is the banner treated as then? Just a ccw? Or is it still nemisis?

**Artemo**

normal ccw

**loota boy**

Ok. Thanks.

**Gracian**

I'm planning on building a Draigowing army that's very similar to yours, and I've done a couple of playtests on Vassal. Here's what I've come up with for how this army works.

1. This army needs a Librarian. Mostly for The Shrouding, 3++ cover keeps Paladins alive for the first couple of turns. Paladins are very slow, so the Summoning can help to shift forces around the battlefield. The Libby has so much utility, its like the toolbox of the list.

2. Master-crafted Psycannons. All of them.

3. Squads of 5 Paladins are enough. 10 Paladins are way overkill, unless you only play against deathstar lists. Four Psycannons usually have the same result as two, a wrecked tank. But to take full advantage of Draigo's Grand Strategy it is better to buy full squads when possible, then break into combat squads at deployment. If you run into a deathstar, you can always throw two squads at it.

4. Warding Stave yes, Banner no. The banner doesn't give a big boost to five man units. The Stave is a godsend in combat, say goodbye to Power Fist wounds.

5. Psyfleman Dreads are the key to killing tanks in the backfield. Stealth from the Librarian lets them survive longer, and Reinforced Aegis + Psychic Hood = laughing at enemy psykers.

The way I build the Paladin Squads:
MC Psycannon, Hammer
MC Psycannon, Halberd
Stormbolter, Warding Stave
Stormbolter, Hammer
Stormbolter, Halberd

I know you can only take one Warding Stave per FOC choice, so switch the Stave out for either a Sword or MC Falchions. Good luck with your army and don't get discouraged, it will take a lot of practice to master.

**mch21689**

Loota like you mentioned earlier, I agree with the idea on dropping on the vindicare and making the dreds venerable.

I run just 1 in my current, but definitely will expand to two and they are just nasty. In about 8 games, it has only died once after taking about 12 lascannon shots. Plus the BS5 with the TL makes it 4 hits everytime pretty much.

I use mine to shred stuff like devastator squads and transports or other dreds and they work very well.

Also not a fan of apothecary either, very expensive upgrade that helps only against small arms fire....which most units who are shooting at you with these weapons are wiped out in the next 1-2 turns.

Would also look at making 10 man units then combat squading them off. Most of the 1 item upgrades such as Staff/Banner aren't really needed in a 5man unit so no reason to field 5man squads when you can simply combat squad your 10. Also allows you to do stuff like CS off your 4 psycannons into one if you want a beefy shooting squad to hold down an objective etc. MCing and Hammers/Halberds/Swords give you plenty of ways to make all 10 unique to wrap wounds.

Librarians are also pretty awesome. Run mine with either Halberd or Staff then take Titan's Hand, Shrouding, Sanc, and Summoning.

**loota boy**

I would definantly disagree with the anit brotherhood banner. It's not great in small squads, yes, but that's why I have it in a large one. Auto-force weapons and extra attacks are invaluble. I was thinking of dropping the vindicare and all the falchions for a libby. I would like to get venerables, but I think that a libby may serve me better. Also, I can always combat squad the 10 man unit. I will try to mastercraft a few more psycannons too.