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Most lists I see have something like this for the CCS
4x Meltaguns or Plasmaguns + Chimera

Basically you're running around like a tiny Vet squad looking to fry something important but is that the best thing to do with them?

minigun762 wrote:Most lists I see have something like this for the CCS
4x Meltaguns or Plasmaguns + Chimera

Basically you're running around like a tiny Vet squad looking to fry something important but is that the best thing to do with them?

for a Mech list, yes.

alarmingrick wrote:for a Mech list, yes.

Agreed.

minigun762 wrote:Most lists I see have something like this for the CCS
4x Meltaguns or Plasmaguns + Chimera

Basically you're running around like a tiny Vet squad looking to fry something important but is that the best thing to do with them?

Load them up with meltaguns, throw them in a Vendetta and blast the crap out of your opponent's most expensive vehicle on T1?

What about non-mech lists or hybrid/mixed lists?

Still the same idea?

In non mech list or hybrid lists, you'll actually want the CCS elsewhere. Orders are a godsend for heavy weapons teams and Guard blobs, so in more infantry focused lists, I'd prefer the CCS cheap with maybe a standard to keep the Ld7 HWTs around loner, and just have him issue orders to bolster my own fire power.

But yes, in mech vets it's better to use it as a mini Vets squad.

Right, in a mech list, they're a slightly cheap vet squad.

For foot horde, things get more complicated. If you have HWSs, the CCS is obviously useful. If you don't what do to with it is more troubling. The most use I've personally gotten out of it is with a lascannon and a master of ordnance, running the role of long-range support for the rest of your troops.

If you're not particularly partial to this loadout, then the honest truth is that a lord commissar may be more in line with what you should take for your HQ choice, as at least it's cheap/synergizes somewhat with blobs.

With a footslogging army thats light on HWS, what exactly does the L. Commissar give you thats better then the CCS? I guess this is assuming that you already have Commissar's buried in your blobs so the main benefit would have to be the LD10 for testing right because you're not going to risk him in CC as he's an IC.

Or did I miss something?

gives you another set of pw attacks. however it is an IC and thus can be targeted. still it may be better tha the ccs depending on the blob build.

if you a going to throw a CCS in a chimera, the melta/plasma is the way to go. however, if you use alot of foot infantry and hvy weapons team, you need a stationary unit to issue orders to other static units (hvy weapons teams).

a heavy weapon option of some sort is needed, anything but a mortar. so, go with lascannon, autocannon, or missle launcher, but, i would go with the las cannon. that leaves two more open upgrade slots. if you want to maybe throw a few more possible wounds on monstorous creatures, go with a sniper rifle. if you worry about your order going off to the infantry squad, go with a vox caster (to bad the heavy weapon squads cant have one).

if you have a static (non moving) CCS, plasma and meltas are about out of the question. however, I would go with the cammo cloak upgrade. another good option in the static CCS is the Master of Ordnance.

If you put a Lord Commissar in a blob then you could drop a PIS Commissar if you want to use the points elsewhere. If you don't need to drop the squads Commissar you could give the Lord a Power Fist and Carapace armour; he's got W3 and a 5++ so he should last you even if he is targeted and if you place him well for when you charge your opponent shouldn't be able to get many models in base contact with him (or use his Power Blob to flank assualt)

He works for Ogryns, where he's an easier target, so he should work with a Power Blob

Peace Out!
Jonny!

what does the lord commissar offer better than a ccs? lets see, to all those units he is in range of, leadership 10, stuborn.

give him a cammo cloak and then the unit he joins get stealth... not a bad little addition to a 31 man blob...

This is what I run for My hybrid list. Strakken with 2x bodyguards, everyone having las and ccw, and a medipack w/ priest packed in a chimera hasn't failed me not once, it's a disturbing amount of attacks with alot of re-rolls, and strakken is a beast in CC. They've killed about eight necrons, five marines and five termi's, and a number of different aspect warriors in the last five games, and it was all in one round of CC.

minigun762 wrote:With a footslogging army thats light on HWS, what exactly does the L. Commissar give you thats better then the CCS?

You get a WS5 W3 S6 Sv4+/5++ death machine that gives everyone nearby Ld10, and gives the squad he's attached to +1 to their cover saves for only 100 points - the same cost as a lascannon/MoO or a 2x melta 2x plasma CCS.

He doesn't add all that much that the blobs aren't doing, but he synergizes slightly better for the same price.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Load them up with meltaguns, throw them in a Vendetta and blast the crap out of your opponent's most expensive vehicle on T1?

I'll be honest, I hadn't thought about using a Vendetta/Valkyrie for my CCS, I always just took the Chimera.

Between Melta and Plasma, is there a strong preference? Plasma seems to benefit more from BID! as it acts as both a offensive and defensive bonus for more damage and to minimize overheats but 20 extra points for 4x Plasma isn't exactly cheap either.

On a related note, is it ever worth it to take Bodyguards just for the extra wounds in the squad?

I always run my Company Command Squad with 3-4 Meltas and Astropath in a Chimera with Multi laser and heavy flamer.

Meltas for killing vehicles and bring it down if you really need something dead because getting out is bad. Astropath for if you go second against a shooty army you have the option of reserving and coming on a 3+ with reroll to outflanks. Chimera for protection and you can fire out the fire points.

Personally, I run two types of CCSs.

One is a high mobility squad in a Chimera with 4 GL. I can reach out and put krak grenades on targets, while still issuing orders to the blobs.

The other is a stationary unit. Camo cloaks, MoO, and a heavy weapon. Their job is to stay with the HWS to issue orders and bombard the living crap out of anything that gets to close.

I tend to use the Stationary CCS on vets lists to add to the firepower. The extra pie plate usually doesn't hit perfectly, but it does do quite a bit for pinning and keeping the riff raff down. It's also a handy distraction, as people tend to get bent out of shape when you're dropping templates and lascannon fire from some jerk with a 3+ cover save.

The mobile CCS goes with the blob lists, and generally uses the blobs as screening tool to provide cover. It issues orders to those blobs and softens targets up for the blob's attack. I have kraked open a transport with the CCS (7 S6 attacks generally nets you a glance and a penetrate vs 11 armor) to have the blob rush in and pummel the occupants.

I run mine with a lascannon and regimental standard, adding a medic and MoO as points go up.

The CCS can't order itself if it's inside a Chimera. It can order OUT of the Chimera, but it can't order units inside transports, and that includes itself.

ChrisWWII wrote:The CCS can't order itself if it's inside a Chimera. It can order OUT of the Chimera, but it can't order units inside transports, and that includes itself.

Which has always seemed counter productive to the idea of packing it in a Chimera as ordering itself seems the best/easiest use of both the CCS and its orders as 4x BS4 special weapons are quite likely to fry something important. That being said its only 5 guys so you really want to be hiding in that Chimera.

ChrisWWII wrote:The CCS can't order itself if it's inside a Chimera. It can order OUT of the Chimera, but it can't order units inside transports, and that includes itself.

All the more reason to take a Lord Commissar

Based on one of your other Topics you maybe looking at taking Lascannon HWS(s); if this is the case it might be an idea to take a CCS with a Lascannon (and anything else you may need/can afford), set up a gunline at the back and use your orders on your HWS(s)

Peace Out!
Jonny!

RubberJonny wrote:

Based on one of your other Topics you maybe looking at taking Lascannon HWS(s); if this is the case it might be an idea to take a CCS with a Lascannon (and anything else you may need/can afford), set up a gunline at the back and use your orders on your HWS(s)

Peace Out!
Jonny!

I was thinking of trying to use the CCS in a more "traditional" way instead of the suicide Vet replacement.
In that light, is it a total waste of time/points to go with 4x Sniper Rifles? There is something kinda cool to me about slowly taking out MCs from across the board with BID and BS4 Snipers but I'm sure its lacking in competitive punch. I'll have to compare its effectiveness against a Lascannon as they cost the same and would do the same basic job.

Sniper rifles are generally considered one of the less effective special weapons...if you want to use them for fluf or rule of cool purposes, go ahead, but I would take the lascannon in a competitive list.

Snipers suck but as Chris said field what you feel fits your army
If you have two Lascannon HWS with the potential benefit of orders you are already going to put the hurt on MCs and one extra Lascannon at BS4 will not only help put wounds on MCs but when there aren't any to target you can pop tanks. You could even drop a Terminator for the lulz

Peace!

What's the consensus opinion on running Vox Casters in a CCS?

Go big or go home. If you're running infantry heavy armies with HWS in the platoons then maybe...

Usually though, Commissars take care of order reliability. You're rolling at Ld 9, and the only real problem with units are the HWS that can't take voxes anyway. Overall, I'd say Commissars are a better buy that voxes, but if you want them for added reliability, go ahead.

Vox-Casters are great! The best place for them are in low point games and with a stationary Gun Line; they are cheaper to run than Commissars, in the lower point games armies that don't have assualt units as their core will field very few, if any, assualt units so you won't need your Blobs to be Stubborn, it's difficult for armies to match the fire power the guard offer at this point level and the points you save on Commissars you can spend on more shooty!
In my experience you can get away with this upto about 1250pts but after that you are going to need Commissars in your blobs and then you should drop the Vox-Casters. When the point level starts to climb again then you could use both Commissars and Vox-Casters because as easy as it is to make Ld9 on 2D6 it's never a certainty and it's heart breaking when you get but not when you can reroll it

If you are playing against armies with Assualt units as their core Commissars are always a must and Power Weapons wouldn't go a miss if you can fit them in.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

Curses, It seems I've been doing it all wrong, I go with a CCS with Powerfist, vox, standard, special weapon, usually plasma/sniper, medic, 2 bodyguards, master of ordinance,camo cloaks and carapace armour... Just 'cos.
I find the bodyguards pretty useful, especially with carapace armour, but from the stuff said in this thread I may have to get a lord commissar.
Not that thats a bad thing, i like the commissar models and fluff anyway.

a lord commissar in a chimera with a penial legion squad is alot of fun. especial if you get the knife fighting rules. just move them to some unit, hop out and get into an assault.