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So. I had this vampire lord who had taken two wounds from using the Crimson Gem. He was using Blood Drinker and fighting some high elf spearmen (he and his five blood knights had charged them).

He used the two dice from the gem to cast Vanhels on himself and his unit, giving them ASF.

Here's the problem. With ASF across the board, everything should happen simultaneously. So, we had the vampire lord swing first for convenience, and he did about six or seven wounds, healing up his two wounds and bringing back some dead knights.

However, swinging simultaneously by rule, the elf spearmen poked him with their spears, I failed my 1+ rerollable (!!) and took one wound.

Now.

Did the vamp lord die before he brought anything back? Or did he do his wounds first, blood-drink himself back to full health, and accordingly only lose one wound?

We played it that way, using the rule that when simultaneous events happen, the player whose turn it is chooses which takes precedence. However, I'm wondering what folks think.

It all happened simultaneously and therefore your vampire hangs in a sort of uncertain undeath.


In all seriousness, I believe you did it correctly.

Vampire should be alive. Swinging at the same Init does happen at the same time.
If that weren't the case, they would not have a rule that units do strike at the same time; they'd simply say whoevers turn it is goes first.

-Matt

Matt, I hear that, but the point here is that under the rules for simultaneous striking, and with the blood drinker, the vampire lost his last wound and recovered some new ones at precisely the same time.

Possible outcomes:

1) The vampire dies. His wounds go through and then he goes poof, since recovery of wounds comes afterward.
2) The vampire recovers two wounds and loses one, surviving with 2 wounds. He may regrow blood knights equal to the number of wounds he deals -2.
3) The vampire loses one wound and must therefore recover 3. He may regrow blood knights equal to the number of wounds he lost -3.

Does that make the question clearer? It's not just about whether he lives, but partly also about what else he does.

Before the vampire swings, he's down 2 wounds.
At the same time the vampire swings doing 7 damage, and with the blade healing 7 wounds: he loses 1.

I'd say option 2. He can't allocate 3 to heal himself because for him to know he needed the 3rd would, he'd have to take the wound before he was swinging, and the result of that would be he's dead.
Likewise, he should only be able to replace models that were lost prior to the elf attacks.

I don't see a good argument for #1 (no mention of delayed wound recovery in the rules), nor #3, which would require them to take the wounds prior to the vamp attacks; which all take place at the same time.

IMO, #2 is in the best spirit of attacking at the same time.

-Matt

2 seems good for me.

Everything is simultaneous, so take the net result.

you take the Net result as everything happened at the same time.

2 was what we did, and makes the most sense to me as well.

Of course, I can avoid this problem in the future by instructing my vamp lord's armor to go stand in the corner until it's ready to quit failing rerollable 1+ saves.

Thanks for the help everyone