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Im not seeing the point of complaining.
My lone Battlewagon has a KFF in it and ard case.

First they have to hit. Im going too use the lascannon as a demo since MM are short range and the unit inside will rip apart the squad.

Dev with Lascannon. 2/3 will hit.
1/6 will pen. 1/2 will get past KFF and 5 need to get past to always kill it. So in short you need around 60 too always kill it. Not bad really.

(Not including glancing at midnight you dont want too do much math.

The KFF has a 5+ cover so I don't see your logic in saying that 1/2 will get past the KFF. It should be 2/3 of the shots will get past the KFF.

I'm also not seeing what you're trying to get at.

Penguinmasterofdoom wrote:The KFF has a 5+ cover

With vehicles it counts as obscured so it's a 4+ cover if I'm understanding the rules correctly.

Huh that's a funny post yeah well is my topic.

Not really seeing the point of this thread, but if you are looking at the weaknesses of battlewagons you should remember they are AV12 on the side. Not every army is static and shooting on the front armour.

A KFF is a 4+ save on vehicles (since it makes them obscured).

'Ard case is probably the worst upgrade you can put on a Battlewagon unless your making it into a Gun Platform (i.e KillKannon, rokkits, etc) even then...

But uhh yah Battlewagons under a KFF are good.... am I missing something?

My mistake, it would get a 4+.

My point is lone battlewagons are still quite hard to pop. On AV 12 its 2/3 hit 1/2 Penetrate 1/2 get past KFF and 1/5 will kill it.

So you roughly need 34 Lascannons. Still quite durable.
Remembering this figure is too definitely kill it.

Excuse my Math early morning.

Just out of curiosity.. what exactly is the point of this thread?

You started your post with "I'm not seeing the point of complaining"... which was then followed by a bunch of math figures. I don't think any Ork players are complaining about KFF covered Battlewagons..

I believe this may be in response to something I posted yesterday in this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365374.page

My point was that in 1500 point list, having a single Battlewagon and no other vehicles guarantees that it will be a magnet for all enemy anti-tank weapons. The normally difficult decisions of "what to shoot at what?" have been handed on a plate to your opponent. That's just my advice, it certainly seems logical to me but you aren't under any obligation to listen.

I don't think applying 'mathhammer' to the survivability of Battlewagons works if it is simply assumed everybody uses Lascannons and always aims at the front armour. I know I'd be running Attack Bikes with Multimeltas round the side or sticking Melta Bombs to it. I'm not sure where you got the idea that "1/5 will kill it" either? Presumably 1/3 of penetrating hits destroy a vehicle? In addition, destroying a vehicle isn't the only way to stop it. A few good 'Crew Stunned' results will keep it quiet for the majority of the game.

Oh if it's a response to that, it's not the Lone battlewagon that sucks, its everything else. Sorry but that list is a bunch of fail.

A lone battlewagon without other targets is sure to get killed.

Now if you said "a lone battlewagon...and nine Killa Kans..." I would be apt to say it would be difficult to say the least what is the more pressing target.

Throw in a few Trukks and other such doodads, and you have yourself a greater opportunity to get a BW to do it's job before it gets popped.

1/5 Odds is not too bad.

If you are using your BW as a gun platform, then I don't it threatening enough to warrant all my energy and assets to pop it. BS 2, nuff said.

A Lone BW can not take/hold an objective, And even with and Ard Case, it isn't that hard to out maneuver a single vehicle.

Now a Battle Wagon with 18 Boys, Nob w/PK, Big Mek w/KFF, PK... that is a threat.

I actually use a lone battle wagon, I stick Ghaz, 9 nobs, and a painboy in it, and I do really well with it, 8/10 Ghaz gets out safely and starts krumpn' space puppies

"her her"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
though maybe sticking another 4 nobs with him would be a better idea

and I have a KFF, so it is, like Varon said...quite hard to take even a single one down

Your math would be correct in turn one, if the opponent has no lance weapons. From turn 2 onwards you'll be getting sideshots, and not only from one-shot weapons, but also from S6 and S7 weapons which can put out a lot more shots. Another danger are any long-range DS1 weapons like multi-meltas, which are almost guaranteed to destroy the weagon on a penetrate, and still have a good chance of glancing.

An 'ard cased KFF bunker might work for a trukk list, but not in any list where the opponent has the time and guns available to simply destroy it. It's not like lascannons are pointed at boyz unless there is nothing with an AV left. The BigMek is harder to kill if you put it with the same amount of points in boyz than inside a battlewagon, plus the boyz will kill more than the wagon.
If you need battlewagons after turn 2, be it for the deff rolla or for mobility, bring more than one.