Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I must have lucked out because my shop and friends still play the way its supposed ta. No proxies, no i cant paint, no tool(overpowered or broke) lists. Just wysiwyg fun, Take it from me this is the way to play. No my rolls sucked or i could have won if. Some of my favorite moments came in the midst of a lose. Like a Fire Warrior beating a ork in cc and living!! Then wounding a nob and dying( special paint job for that). Play win lose or draw till the end, no conceding. How bout this fun: Loseing badly , bring it back at the end. On 6 there was Gazgul? and one Gun drone left on the table. We had more fun from there out than the rest of the game( we threw turns out of the equation.

To end: There is too much fun to be had in the gray area inbetween winning or loseing to worry about what your record is


Automatically Appended Next Post:
by the way paint ur army, good or not its yours


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also dont be a strickler on some rules. If some one forgets a deep strike let them still have it. No biggie you want to win with them at full force. A couple rules should stay like failed assaults, terrain stuff, but once again let stuff slide. Much better than tourney play

That attitude is fine, and endorsed by most gamers for friendly games.

At tournaments, where you've paid money to enter, potentially shelled out for plane tickets, hotel reservations and more to participate in a large-scale organized event (where people care about whether they win or lose), it would be a bad thing to not be a stickler about the rules. It would be a bad thing to not care if you win or lose - those folks generally don't shell out the big bucks to travel to events.

In short, your attitude is fine. It is appropriate for friends playing amongst each other. However, I would encourage you not to blanket the entire hobby withing your sweepingly limited advice.

Finally, this is an internet forum. Welcome to Dakka! By your typing, I'm guessing that you're probably a rather young teenager. txtspk isn't very well received in forums, and your thoughts and opinions are likely to be better received if what you type is legible. Shy away from shorthand, use sentences, phrase your thoughts into a coherent structure. I've seen plenty of 11-13 year olds communicate exceptionally well and have their thoughts and opinions valued...and plenty of 18-25 year old folks get dismissed as a 10 year old too young to have anything worthwhile to say because they were illiterate.

I hope you enjoy the website and take my advice.

The problem is those people don't post on the internet, because they're not looking for advice on how to tool up their army for maximum efficiency, they're not math hammering lists so they can take out the next tournament. They're just playing the game in their spare time. It's called beer and pretzels gaming. Generally, you're drinking beer and having a few laughs while playing as well.

The internet is full of people doing the opposite. They are posting lists, getting advice on how to make them better, finding out the statistical chance of beating x unit with y unit. They play, too, but they post a lot more on the net to get advice. Very few um, 'traditional' gamers do this. The most they do is discuss general topics.

The reason you seem to think the GW community is full of statistic obsessed tournament players is caused by this. Basically, signal from what you call traditional gamers is being drowed out simply because they don't discuss things as much outside of whoever they play games with.

I beg to differ, those people do exist and they do post on Dakka. They are the people who are frustrated by the people who only want to power game and rules lawyers, rather than embracing the point of playing a game. They are the same people who are frustrated b the amount of work they put into their hobby, then see people come in with proxy armies, partially assembled armies, or unpainted minis.

None of these things are critical to the enjoyment of the game, but there are some of us, like my gaming group, who figure that the time wasted playing games-in-a-bottle and mathhammering the stats could have been spent in painting, modelling, and (gasp!) actual game play.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:They are the same people who are frustrated b the amount of work they put into their hobby, then see people come in with proxy armies, partially assembled armies, or unpainted minis.

See, I'm what you guys are classing as a 'traditional gamer', but I've got no problem with these, to an extent. My brother and I, and one of my friends, take a lot of time and put effort into painting out armies, but out other friends don't, and we don't hold it against them. I mean, I draw the line when the Ultramarines player says 'that base with legs and a plasmagun is that squads meltagun guy', but I don't hold unpainted armies or partially assembled units against anyone. I personally use partially assembled units if I'm having a game before a unit is finished, since I paint models without arms, then paint the arms and atatch them later. I have a friend who just doesn't have the time to sit there and paint, since he works full time and has 3 kids. But if there's an effort to get stuff done even at a snails pace, I don't mind. As long as they're not like that for years.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I beg to differ, those people do exist and they do post on Dakka. They are the people who are frustrated by the people who only want to power game and rules lawyers, rather than embracing the point of playing a game. They are the same people who are frustrated b the amount of work they put into their hobby, then see people come in with proxy armies, partially assembled armies, or unpainted minis.

None of these things are critical to the enjoyment of the game, but there are some of us, like my gaming group, who figure that the time wasted playing games-in-a-bottle and mathhammering the stats could have been spent in painting, modelling, and (gasp!) actual game play.

Dude, I could not agree more. I have been at this hobby for nearly 20 years now, on and off. And I can honestly say that I'm much more of a beer and pretzel gamer than a stat obsessed math's guy.

Consequently I enjoy the game that much more. I play regularly at my local GW and with my bro at my flat. And out of those two I always have more fun at Home.

The rules lawyers and math's dudes can really put newbies off, with their constant picking and insistence on reading and re-reading every little thing. I really need to reiterate myself here: it's a hobby, please please please don't take it too seriously peeps, you end ruining the game for the rest of us who are more than happy to let little rules slips go.

And to all you WAAC guys out there, keep it at the tournaments. Do not bring it into your FLGS or GW. Nothing ruins a game quicker.
Thankyou.

People play, and enjoy, the hobby for a multitude of reasons.

Aren't you a little presumptuous to assume that somehow you and your ideals are those of a "traditional gamer"?

Troll thread.

I really liked reading this actually, I havent played one match yet but im preping up and making and army and it's cool to know im not going to get drilled about the rules over and over and over again. I like knowing that there are paople willing to let things slide.

It all depends on what everyone considers a traditional gamer. Gamers come in all sizes and styles. I enjoy the role playing aspects of the game. I like the warhammer 40k universe and the fluff of it. I also have decided I want to play in a few tournaments and enjoy all the aspects of the hobby. does that mean when i am down at the flgs that I can't enjoy playing with custom rules or variations? I don't think one has anything to do with the other.

What I would like to see more of is people running campaigns and crafting story's around the game. It is a war game but it doesn't have to be all about winning at tournaments. Can't we have a competitive environment mixed with the more enjoyable aspects of classic gaming? I am fairly new to the hobby only having started painting and collecting 40k last year/ So maybe it is naive of me to think that a role player and a war gamer can sit down and enjoy a fun narrative game with the rule set to help facilitate the battle.

Now when I do go to a tournament I am going to be playing more competitively and with a mathhammered list. I don't have issues with other people playing less competitively if they want to but I understand I am walking into a completive environment. I have only played in one tournament and it was enjoyable. Did I win some big prize no. Was I hoping I would sure but it isn't about taking home the big prize for all of us. Some people want to go have three or four good games and see how well they can do. I for one don't think you can't be a classic role playing gamer and enjoy yourself in this hobby. The novels and forge world books are great aspects to the game and add depth for me. The in depth and detail on some of the write ups just add to the enjoyment. I love seeing well painted models fighting against other well painted models.

I am really putting effort into learning to paint. For one I enjoy watching my painted guys tell the story of the battle as I role dice to see the outcome. It adds to the flavor of the game if the guy across from me also has his models painted I will enjoy the game more. Do I want to look across and see a all primer army not really. I want to see the battle play out like a story and having a well painted army crafts that narrative better for me.

So to finish my rambling I think there are classic gamers out there. I would like to think of myself as one

My way of playing is better than yours. This is an objective fact. Your way of approaching a hobby makes you morally defunct and I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be the next Fritzl, because anyone who would like to play a game the way you do is clearly one step away from molesting a child.

For anyone unfamiliar with the concept of sarcasm or irony, the above post is entirely composed of it. Please be sure not to make the mistake of believe it is sincere. It is instead an ironic statement about how judging others and condemning them as bad people for their differing way of enjoying a game is entirely inappropriate and rude.

Flaming other posters is never appropriate.

you MIGHT be jumping to conclusions.


I sense a slight sarcastic bend to Corrode's post, but, irregardless, it was inappropriate.

Isn't this like calling someone "normal" when you can't really define 'normal" in the first place??
Its just the gaming environment you "grew up" in. I started in a play for the fun and play till the end kinda game group. Then different people started showing up, and these guys had more fun "tooling" their lists out, and it sparked a more competitive nature in some of us, and we rose to the challenge. Before I moved, we had a good mix of players that can play competitive tooled tournament lists or just for fun on a friday night list. Because both side had to adapt to the other.... this might be a great argument for evolution of a gamer. Basically it worked out to where everyone had two or three lists ready to go on any given night, a tooled list and a fun list, so depending on who showed up and what they felt like playing everyone had a list to play. So, i guess this makes us...... gamers.
end 2 cents.

Grey Templar wrote:you MIGHT be jumping to conclusions.


I sense a slight sarcastic bend to Corrode's post, but, irregardless, it was inappropriate.

Slight as in Ben Nevis is a slight bump, yeah. I dunno, sometimes it seems like this kind of thread attributes for about 50% of the 40K forum world. We might as well get straight into the inevitable ad hominem brutality right from the start.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:And to all you WAAC guys out there, keep it at the tournaments. Do not bring it into your FLGS or GW. Nothing ruins a game quicker.
Thankyou.

To all you hobby nazis out there who don't know what WAAC means and throw it around because it makes them feel superior, keep your "better than thou" and "holier than thou" attitute at home. Do not bring it to your FLGS or GW. Do not bring it into community discussion on a 40k forum. Nothing ruins a game or a thread faster.

Oh...I'm too late again.

The problem I have with this thread, whilst I agree with some of what the OP is saying, is that he has started with the assumption that there is a right way and a wrong way to participate in the hobby.

Personally, I like painted, WYSIWYG armies and I like a friendly laid back environment. However, I also like hard lists and well-fought game following the rules tightly. These things are not mutually incompatible.

The problem is one of expectations. If everyone is playing low-power lists then that's what you're expected to bring but if everyone is playing full-on then don't bring a weak list and complain about it. The exact same applies to painting and WYSIWYG standards.

Dashofpepper wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:And to all you WAAC guys out there, keep it at the tournaments. Do not bring it into your FLGS or GW. Nothing ruins a game quicker.
Thankyou.

To all you hobby nazis out there who don't know what WAAC means and throw it around because it makes them feel superior, keep your "better than thou" and "holier than thou" attitute at home. Do not bring it to your FLGS or GW. Do not bring it into community discussion on a 40k forum. Nothing ruins a game or a thread faster.

Oh...I'm too late again.

You weren't, really, you were right in there with a well reasoned response. It just didn't work, is all.

Ahhh Dash, I missed you! I don't use the term WAAC to feel superior. It's just there is a time and place for that kind of game. And a quick 1500pts knockabout is not it!

And if my opinion upsets you then maybe you should start throwing around the sort of disgusting comparisons that Corrode just made to make yourself heard.

Thou I respect you as a tournament player and have no doubt that you are very good at what you do, there is no need to bring that 'must win must win' attitude to every game.

Sometimes it's more fun just to rock up and play, bollocks to the rules, just have a good time.
And if you can't see that then I pity you.......

Do you know what I hate? When people enjoy things for different reasons than me.

I mean, I don't run into them, or have to interact with them. And all of the people I hang out with like things for the appropriate reasons and enjoy them in the appropriate way.

But just the though that there are people out there enjoying something for the wrong reasons, and in a wrong way... it makes me sick.

Polonius wrote:Do you know what I hate? When people enjoy things for different reasons than me.

I mean, I don't run into them, or have to interact with them. And all of the people I hang out with like things for the appropriate reasons and enjoy them in the appropriate way.

But just the though that there are people out there enjoying something for the wrong reasons, and in a wrong way... it makes me sick.

HOW DARE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGG!

Polonius wrote:Do you know what I hate? When people enjoy things for different reasons than me.
I mean, I don't run into them, or have to interact with them. And all of the people I hang out with like things for the appropriate reasons and enjoy them in the appropriate way.
But just the though that there are people out there enjoying something for the wrong reasons, and in a wrong way... it makes me sick.

Regardless, this argument is pointless and counterproductive. People are always going to have differing opinions. Tis what makes the world go round.
If you can't post them and let other people know them how are we ever going to grow as people?
And if you had even bothered to read my earlier posts i was making that exact point. The win at all costs attitude is necessary, if not essential at tournaments, and if that's how you get your rocks off then all well and good. But really, sometimes it's better to just play the game for the games sake and not yours.

Can't we all just get along?!

Project2501 wrote:Troll thread.

This is online discussion, not what a ugly thing uses to sew.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The guy who start this thread pays the game what my club conisders the right way to play warhammer.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Regardless, this argument is pointless and counterproductive. People are always going to have differing opinions. Tis what makes the world go round.
If you can't post them and let other people know them how are we ever going to grow as people?
And if you had even bothered to read my earlier posts i was making that exact point. The win at all costs attitude is necessary, if not essential at tournaments, and if that's how you get your rocks off then all well and good. But really, sometimes it's better to just play the game for the games sake and not yours.
Can't we all just get along?!

Not while you're still making assumptions that one way is better or more appropriate than the others.

The only standard that matters is the standard held to by the community within which you play. I'm fortunate to play at a club where the standard of play is extremely high - I've never seen anyone there complain of a list being too-powerful, for example, and painted + WYSIWYG is the default standard.

In the past I've played at clubs where the standard of play was lower and I took suitable lists.


Also, if by WAAC attitude you mean "be a rules lawyer and a git" then it's not appropriate anywhere, even at tournaments. If, on the other hand, you mean "take good lists and follow the rules" then I would say that can be appropriate anywhere, providing that it's what everyone is expecting.

Let's drop the fight, okay?

Props also to Polonius who encapsulated my feelings on this exactly.

Obviously there isn't a 'traditional gamer' much like there isn't a traditional human...
Everyone is different.
Some people want to win.
Some people want to win and be a d**k about it.
Some people simply want to enjoy all aspects o the hobby.
Some people want to enjoy all aspects of the hobby and be a d**k about it.
Basically do what you want but don't force others to or look down on them if they don't do the same as you.

Corrode wrote:Props also to Polonius who encapsulated my feelings on this exactly.

But note that I could be even more mocking, while not being needlessly offensive.

Wow, you mean..... You.... You were not serious!



Your grasp of sarcasm is just off the scale Corrode!
But to compare someone to Josef Fritzl and a child molester is just not funny. I ...apparently think that two wrongs make a right.

Sarcasm is all fine and dandy, but there are things that just should not be said. Especially to people you have never met, and are never going to meet. Lucky them.

Do your parents know how you talk to people? They would be ashamed.....lol

I'm not sure there are things that shouldn't be said. I mean, comparing Pol Pot to Hitler is at least somewhat acceptable, right?

Rather, there are appropriate levels of reaction. It's the old don't bring a gun to knife fight rule.