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Alright so I have a problem, the problem is that I have gotten the point where I don't know what to do with my Ork army. I have a pretty nice list put together but I want to pull it up to the next level but I don't know what to do or buy as my next models to add to the list. I was thinking about adding 6 more Deffkoptas and having Wing of them, 3 with Buzzsaws and Big shootas,and 6 with just rokkits. Furthermore I was thinking about getting a Boom Wagon or a Shokk Attack gun for more Heavy Support. I really don't know what kind of tactics I should be pulling either, I mean I don't really want to do the very so original KKF Kan wall. My list is below, I would like to know how you guys would improve on it or what kind of tactics you would pull. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this topic, if it isn't Moderators please move it to the right place. Thanks guys
Sorry for the format, not sure how to fix it.

2000 Point list

HQ- Ghazghkull Thraka 225 Points

HQ- Warboss 60 Points
- Power Klaw +25 Points
- Boss Pole +5 Points
‘Eavy Armor +5 Points
Cybork Body +10 Points
- Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon +5 Points

Elites- 10 Nobz 200 Points
-Waaagh Banner +15 Points
-4 Power Klaws +100 Points
- 2 Big Choppa’s +10 Points
-Shoota/Rokkit Kombi Weapon +5 Points
-Shoota/Skorcha Kombi Weapon +5 Points
-All ‘Eavy Armor +50 Points
-All Cybork Bodies +50 Points
-Painboy +30 Points
- Grot Orderly +5 Points
- Ammo Grot +5 Points

Elites: 12 Loota’s
- 1 Mek with Big Shoota

Elites: 11 Kommandos 110 Points
- 2 Burnas +30 Points
- Led by Boss Sninkrot +85 Points

Troops- 30 Boyz 180 Points
-All Sluggas and Choppas
-1 Rokkit Launcha’s +10 Points
-Nob Leader +10 Points
-Power Klaw +25 Points
-Boss Pole +5 Points
-2 Big Shoota +10 Points

Troops- 30 Boyz 180 Points
-All Sluggas and Choppas
-Nob Leader +10 Points
-Power Klaw +25 Points
-Boss Pole +5 Points
-3 Big Shoota’s +15 Points


Heavy Support- 1 Battle Wagon 90 Points

- 1 Big Shoota +5 Points
- Reinforced Ram +5 Points
- Grot Riggers +5 Points
- Red Paint Job +5 Points

Fast Attack- 3 DeffKoptas 105 Points
- All twin-linked rokkits +30 points

Total: 2000 Points

Uhhh I'm new myself but this needs some work.

1 battle wagon is bad news, why take a ram and not a deff roller"

Deffkoptas should all be in their own unit

I really don't get having cyborg and 'eavy armor

Too many Pks between the war boss and ghaz and the nobs, never thought I'd say that

Lootas are best in units of 5 or 15 for leadership reasons, never take meks

Boyz mobs with shootas should take big shootas, sluggas should not take rokkits or big shootas

You are running a green tide with an all eggs in a battlewagon but no KFF in sight back to the drawing board on this one I'm afraid

Hargus56 wrote:Uhhh I'm new myself but this needs some work.

1 battle wagon is bad news, why take a ram and not a deff roller"

Deffkoptas should all be in their own unit

I really don't get having cyborg and 'eavy armor

Too many Pks between the war boss and ghaz and the nobs, never thought I'd say that

Lootas are best in units of 5 or 15 for leadership reasons, never take meks

Boyz mobs with shootas should take big shootas, sluggas should not take rokkits or big shootas

You are running a green tide with an all eggs in a battlewagon but no KFF in sight back to the drawing board on this one I'm afraid

I agree with most of that, although having Cybork bodies and eavy armour i personally see a must. Also with the lootas I only have so many models of lootas. Finnally this list is made for a kill points game thats why the deffkoptas are in one unit. Lol, lastly there isnt a deffrolla on the Battle Wagon because my case cant fit it, also I didn't know of it at the time I really wish I got it though.

Hargus56 delivered you good advice.

If you have 12 Lootas, then make them two units of 5.
Battlewagons are not versatile enough to be taken solo. Either mechanize your army, or lose the battlewagon and go for a foot-slogging theme. Here's some Orky advice I wrote some time ago:

*EDIT* Here it is.

I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
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Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian.

*edited out inappropriate joke about the acronym for Fighter Archer Guardian*




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.

Nothing to add

Once again I am about to say something profound and dash says most everything that needs to be said.

Um wow...I only clicked on this thread because I have started putting together a small army of orks to do something in between painting chimera's and rhinos but that is a seriously good response there Dash, its made me rethink my own choices already! Any advice for someone that is leaning heavily towards mechanised assault?

Jihadnik wrote:Um wow...I only clicked on this thread because I have started putting together a small army of orks to do something in between painting chimera's and rhinos but that is a seriously good response there Dash, its made me rethink my own choices already! Any advice for someone that is leaning heavily towards mechanised assault?

Check the (ork) battle reports in his signature, they should be exactly what you are looking for.

Yes....if you check out some of the battle reports in my signature, you can find picture intensive battle reports of my own Mechanized Orks, how I use them, what tactics I employ, tactical analysis of my games...all the tools that I could think of to help other Ork players replicate what I've done.

... Well Dash you've really taken the cake now. And here I thought your ego was what lurked on here My mistake.

Dash is right on the whole, the list has little theme or concept behind it. Since KPs are a relevant issue then you want to make the most out of your choices. And since you've expressed little interested in Kan Wall, I think your list can go to Green Tide. Lots and lots of boyz. Toss out the PK boss for Zogwort, A warphead or an SAG big mek if you want fire support. More support would be required so I think perhaps ditching the Nobz and getting more Lootas would do you good. The Battlewagon is a mismatch and should be sidelined too. I'd drop the koptas since they make tasty KPs to easily throw away - not ideal. For Heavy Support I'd suggest Boomwagons or Big Gun batteries, and Fast Attack I think Stormboyz have their place.

People only think my ego is posting because they cannot accept good advice without prescribing an ulterior selfish motive for trying to help people.