Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Besides a new model how could a Dwarf Gyrocopter be made better? It seems to me that alot of Dwarf players don't use Gyrocopters versus other Rare choices because the other choices are far more usefull. I doubt it could be made to compete with the other Rare choices but how could the Gyrocopter be made at least slightly more usefull? Any ideas?

It would be used alot more if it could fly 20 and still use the flame template and also hit everything with no partials like every other template weapon.

Ok so there are a few ideas as to how it could be improved. Personally I think it should have the bombing run brought back

Something similar to terradons drop rocks...

Once per game when you fly over an ememy unit you can elect to drop a bomb.

Center the small template and scatter it D6 inches. Models under the hole take a str10 hit D3 wounds, and models partially hit or covered by the template take a Str5 hit.

Any unit that takes a casualty must take a panic test (its scary to have bombs dropped on you!

That dosen't sound bad to me, also what about some differant weapon options instead of the steam gun?

definitely the no partials thing. It would be great if it became a possible "mount" for the engineer heroes. Different weapon mounts would be great as well.

I think if it was in plastic, that would get it on more tables, one issue with the dwarfs is that they are not very "conversion worthy". Alas

I'm actually working on some differant conversions with a friend including a Gyrocopter made entirely from plastic that takes alot of inspiration from the Dwarven concepts of WAR.

So anyway we have being able to march and shoot, no partials on the template, bombing run, alternative weapons. What about maybe taking more then one? like taking a unit of 1-3

Unit takes a wound and it forces a panic test from the steam gun. Hey if Skaven warp fire throwers can do it why not steam guns, I wouldn't want to stick around if my friend next to me just had his skin melt off.

You know alot of people think that the gun fires steam, it is a steam powered gun that fires bullets.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:You know alot of people think that the gun fires steam, it is a steam powered gun that fires bullets.

Yeah but the thought of a concentrated blast of steam cooking things alive is so much more awesome!

With the milage Red_Zeke gets out of his gyrocopter (from the bat reps) I kind of think the rest of the dwarf players are just missing out . That thing's really useful!

Just tell your opponent how much you like the model, and how much the steam cannon sucks (S3 roll for partials).
Then mention that it gets 2 crappy attacks and no stomp.
Finally, mention how you used to use it for march blocking, but that doesn't seem to work in 8th.

Once you've convinced your opponent to ignore it, move into the back field and use the ~19" charge to force fleeing enemies back toward the charging unit.

ANY flying thing is awesome for dwarves; a T5 flier is even better.

-Matt

That's not how to make it better that's just how to use it

I really think they should make it a mount choice for master engineers.

Bengrold Stonefist wrote:I really think they should make it a mount choice for master engineers.

What's the master engineer going to do on it that it can't do without him?
Only thing I can think of is master rune of challenge; then flee.

-Matt

First: the other Rares aren't that great either, ya' know. The Flame Cannon is the worst war machine in the game. The Organ gun is really only useful for blasting skirmishers; otherwise, the Grudge Thrower is overall a better tool.

Beyond that, though...:

The mount idea does sound cool. Master Engineers ought to have some options. Especially ones that expand them beyond a Gunline army.

I do not think that it should be able to march and shoot and ignore partials. All together, you'd have a war machine that can land a S3 flame template down on a unit with maximum effect and 100% accuracy, every turn. That's lame.
I'd support either change separately, but not both at once. The no partials thing would make it more streamline and simple, so I'd go with that.

That's really all I'd see as necessary to make it better. Engineers can have them as mounts for +140pts, no partials. Maybe offer extra armour plating for 20-30pts more.

I know this sounds a little crazy (and completely not dwarf-ish) but I have always been thinking of some sort of suicide-possibilities on a gyrocopter Just flying around, then aiming for a good spot to crash and devastate an entire block of enemies seems awesome

However, dwarf fluff says they will always be fighting till their death, unwilling to give up even in the worst cases. So a suicidal gyrocopter seems out of the question

As for the template/movement/mount, I think the biggest limitation is that you cannot move and shoot. If they change that rule the gyrocopter gains a lot of freedom, moving around steaming all that is in his sight To use it as a mount seems unnatural, and I have to agree with matt on that... A master engineer will not make the gyro better, so why would you use him as a pilot?

Thats about what I think of the gyro

ZOOM!



I think the Gyro's pretty good, actually. If I was improving its gun, I'd either let it shoot on the march or remove partials, but not both. Being able to position a breath weapon every single turn would be a bit too powerful. Right now, it's worth comes mostly from providing something the rest of the army completely lacks.

I think it would be *fun* to see options added to the gyro. Similar to how Warsphinx can be upgraded with a breath weapon or poison attacks, I think a gyro could have optional upgrades for bombs or other weapons to add some variation.

A Gyrocopter, when well used, is a perfectly fine weapon. Not like Dwafs are hard up for template weapons, or shooting of any kind, or combat. What they DO have problems with is a light cavalry type role or an elusive war-machine hunter.

Most players don't use light cavalry for the same reason: They don't understand what they do, because they typically have poor stats, poor saves, and can't bring the wood in combat.

Were I to improve the Gyrocopter? Vanguard, and feigned flight.

Vanguard would be cool (or maybe just straight-up Scout). I'm not sure if feigned flight would make sense, since take-off and all that would be rather time consuming.

Thanks for the backup there Zeke.
But as to what the Master Engineer would do, I figure that he could improve the gun, like he improves cannons and whatnot. Of course, I also think that these guys should improve core shooting you pop them in as well. They just cost...so much.

The 'copter can make a normal move and shoot, right? It just can't march 20"? That seems just fine, for the reasons stated.
But I'd get rid of partials, to make it easier, and slightly better. It'd be great at taking hunks out of big units, but each turn it does that, it won't be doing all of the great tricksy things that it--and only it--can do.

RiTides wrote:With the milage Red_Zeke gets out of his gyrocopter (from the bat reps) I kind of think the rest of the dwarf players are just missing out . That thing's really useful!

You know, thats exactly what i thought when i looked at the thread title

I couldnt use one...

I would make hellicopter noises every time I used the thing.

Given RZ's post above, apparently that's a common symptom (I know I would)

I'd use one if the model was updated and not such a *cuss too much* to make. Hence why I'm making my own, and I know it dosen't need to be said but I'm pretty sure a Gyrocopter would sound more like a airplane instead of a helicopter

I would probably halve it's cost. It is far too fragile right now to cost as much as it does. Or leave it at the current points cost and let it have thunderstomp attacks. IE: whirring helicoptor death blades. Then it could at least support the flanks a little bit. Right now I just see the thing die in a heart beat and that is way too many points wasted on something that has a painfully limited role.

First: half? 70pts for a flying turret?

I don't think that d6 more attacks will help the 'Copter in combat much; as Red Zeke said, its value really lies in its maneuverability. It offers something that the Dwarfen army doesn't have without it, and it supplements the shooting phase on top of that.

I don't think thinning down blocks, removing the "sweet spot" from fleeing distances, etc. should be considered a "painfully limited role".
It's just a little clunky, the way it is now.

Get rid of the ability to take leadership checks to ignore march block.

RiTides wrote:With the milage Red_Zeke gets out of his gyrocopter (from the bat reps) I kind of think the rest of the dwarf players are just missing out . That thing's really useful!

I think it's a solid unit with solid uses. It gets poo'd on a little bit because it's not a boomy cannon. You have to use it with a little more finesse I think, but it's decent.

Warpsolution wrote:First: half? 70pts for a flying turret?

I don't think that d6 more attacks will help the 'Copter in combat much; as Red Zeke said, its value really lies in its maneuverability. It offers something that the Dwarfen army doesn't have without it, and it supplements the shooting phase on top of that.

I don't think thinning down blocks, removing the "sweet spot" from fleeing distances, etc. should be considered a "painfully limited role".
It's just a little clunky, the way it is now.

For a flying turret that is easily taken out by one unit of small arms fire, can't reliably handle war machine crews, and whose best use is negated by the prevelance of rerollable leadership for rallying? It sees use when you charge but the enemy doesn't break till their turn, or when the enemy charges you, but breaks and runs. 140 points is way too much by far. I can buy a unit of heavy cav for most armies for that much that would be more versatile and more survivable.

4+ armor, T5, W3 doesn't exactly equate to "easily taken out by small arms".

Dwarfs don't have cav, so that's not a valid comparison. You compare with what the army already has, which GW gave them for balance and fluff reasons. Dwarf magic is inferior to WoC's too, but that's because they aren't WoC.