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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 07:10:59
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/862364-opening-up-the-world-of-warhammer
It seems impossible for any journalist to start a report involving role playing or video games without referencing darkened bedrooms, maladjusted teenagers or geeks in general.
A hobby such as Warhammer never gets a mention on TV or radio but that doesn’t stop it being massively popular. It’s definitely for nerds, or at least in its original form as a tabletop war game, where controlling the actions of elves and aliens via complex rule-sets and dice can hardly be described as rock’n’roll.
The principles have existed since Warhammer’s inception in 1983 – painting little lead figures allowing teenage boys to indulge their artistic tendencies within the comfort zone of fantasy and sci-fi.
Even if you’re not sure what goes on inside, you’ve probably passed one of the 130 Games Workshop stores across Europe, filled with people purchasing figures or playing games on giant dioramas. Part social club, part specialist retailer, the only thing like it is an Apple Store – except nobody is drawn to a Games Workshop to appear fashionable.
‘Everyone speaks the same language when you’re doing this and there’s a good atmosphere,’ says Sven, a 25-year-old student from Sweden and regular visitor to one north London store.
‘It can seem a little strange to people who don’t play but it’s just the same as people meeting up to play soccer and talking about it afterwards. There are different teams and a lot of tactics.’
There are two universes: the original Warhammer is heavily influenced by the figurine game of The Lord Of The Rings (which creator Games Workshop also now licenses). Since 1987, a spin-off sci-fi version of the concept has existed in Warhammer 40,000, where elves become eldars and orcs become, well, orcs.
Its success is not due to clever marketing or expensive advertising. In fact, Games Workshop has refused to be involved with this – a representative turning away the offer of free publicity in this article saying the company doesn’t do interviews.
It might seem a peculiar position to take, but the company has hardly been backwards in embracing other media or the internet. It has a publishing arm called the Black Library and from the earliest days has allowed its products to be adapted as video games. It recently released a straight-to-DVD movie called Ultramarines.
The 40K universe (as fans call it) has become a favourite of video game publisher THQ via its well-received Dawn Of War real-time strategy series. It shows none of Games Workshop’s reticence, and is preparing a marketing push for new action game Space Marine.
‘The way we look at it is the universe is really rich,’ says James McDermott of Canadian developer Relic Entertainment. ‘There are things in there that have influenced a lot of games and movies, so we try to focus on that.’
Space Marine abandons any pretence of simulating the gameplay of the tabletop originals, but remains devoted to the minutiae of the game’s fictional universe. It’s voiced almost solely by British actors, with Mark Strong capturing the right air of authority as the lead space marine. ‘It’s staying honest to the property,’ says McDermott. ‘According to the Warhammer 40,000 world, everyone in the future speaks with a British accent.’
That’s not a vision shared by other games - but Warhammer owes almost all its success to ignoring accepted wisdom and now, with THQ gently pushing things into the mainstream, that attitude remains.
Its success is not due to clever marketing or expensive advertising. In fact, Games Workshop has refused to be involved with this – a representative turning away the offer of free publicity in this article saying the company doesn’t do interviews.
I mean I know its true from past experience, but..  ... yeah.
I for one am glad my shares are being looked after so well.
except nobody is drawn to a Games Workshop to appear fashionable.
.. but.I *considers wardrobe* .. ahh....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/05 07:12:05
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 07:23:38
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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The mind really does boggle. I mean, I can sort of understand GW refusing to spend budget on advertising their product but refusing an interview when a (fairly major) tabloid newspaper is basically offering a free plug? Crazy.
On a sidenote, imagine life if GW and Warhammer somehow managed to shed its nerdly persona - truly utopia!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 07:28:50
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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'the original Warhammer is heavily influenced by the figurine game of The Lord Of The Rings'
I'm presuming they just made that up?
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 07:31:22
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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I don't think they mean the GW released LOTR game. I assume they are talking about a much earlier release.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 08:39:13
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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In fact, Games Workshop has refused to be involved with this – a representative turning away the offer of free publicity in this article saying the company doesn’t do interviews.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 09:15:33
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Norn Queen
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Anyone got a reasonable explanation for GW not wanting to do interviews and the like?
I'd hazard its to do with their early roots and trying to maintain a sort of indie, underground status but I actually dont believe that for a second.
They are so cash focused of late surely publicity like this only grows the userbase and €s?
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Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 09:16:46
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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Maybe they think the printed media is a passing fad, in much the same manner as they believe the internet to be?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 09:19:23
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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How many other companies turn down interviews except when they are being set up for a hatchet job? WHich clearly isn't the case here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 09:31:25
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Hi all.
I recon GW plc has built up its 'fortress walls' so high , and pulled up the drawbridge for so long , they have become agrophobic!
TTFN
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/05 09:31:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 10:41:38
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Dakka Veteran
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This has left me a little confused but I may be able to provide an explanation, if people are willing to read it
I understand why people would think GW not doing interviews in mighty strange, however TBH they don't need to do they?
This article in-itself IS advertisement. Many of us come into the hobby from sibblings or friends or else through a game like DOW. Many a time I've seen people, tourists etc, wander into a store, look around in total bemusement for a few moments and walk out again (although that could just be the smell  )...
I feel to become involved in the hobby is to be of a certain imaginary disposition which the vast majority of people lack, it's almost like something about the look of it or its themes has to register with you on some buried cultural level or instinct - yet I have never regarded it as strange myself because I was brought up with it & felt an affinity for it when I saw my first model. I can see why many people will think it's weird and down-right geek-laden (which TBH it is) - however nobody seemed to have batted an eye when LOTR was released in cinema's - many people loved it instead of treating it like a social geek-infection
GW don't need to do advertising for their products because our wonderful "leaked" photo's and rumour-mills do that for them - or because of them  If someone feels an affinity toward the models or fiction then they'll either go into a store or type 'warhammer forum' on their Google machine and they're started.
I can almost understand the not doing interviews thing. Imagine having to explain the fictional mythology to a reporter & why you might the feel the need to collect and paint representative figures from within it in order to simulate a fictional battle, using an abstract set of rules to determine said mythology's representation  The idea seems totally absurd doesn't it? Even when put to someone at a base level it seems ridiculous & many 'normal' people I've spoken to regard GW as almost like a cultural taboo, even with the rising popularity of computer games & geek-marked cinematic releases - it's weird. I don't feel GW is deliberately trying to be a 'cult' underground type-thing, but it may be due to its very nature.
Why waste money trying to override a popular cultural perception of the hobby - to 'make it cool' to the masses - when this will never be the case?
I feel GW is a hobby that is almost like an absurd parody of an esoteric secret society - only the initiated may truly enter & to become initiated means going through certain trials, the gathering of knowledge & skills, as well as a certain test of faith - in committing oneself and one's time to a fictional/artistic pursuit, which foums like our beloved dakka help to provide.
I wonder if any scientists have found the 'geek' gene yet? It's not our fault damn it! Our very genetics compels us
Part social club, part specialist retailer, the only thing like it is an Apple Store – except nobody is drawn to a Games Workshop to appear fashionable.
I'm genetically anathema to technology & materialistic 'bandwagon' fanaticism, so you can keep your  iApple-techno-fap products, Nike  shoes &  designer jeans. I'd rather have a couple of pints, a decent meal & a 1,000pt army any day
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 10:48:06
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Norn Queen
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Very good post Warpspawned.
However there is a differnce between user sites feeding the rumour mill and GW doing "proper" advertising.
The rumour mill will very rarely imo generate new players because people who have no knowledge of the hobby dont care if the Necrons are getting a fast skimmer transport.
GWs basic goal is to make a profit, to do that they need to mantain and or grow their user base so why not utilise all possible mediums when doing so?
I do take your point overall, if someone wants to get into the hobby they can and will very easily but GW seem to block off certain avenues of advertising and Im not sure why.
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Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 11:28:56
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Dakka Veteran
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I do take your point overall, if someone wants to get into the hobby they can and will very easily but GW seem to block off certain avenues of advertising and Im not sure why.
I think they're doing all they can. They are a big company, but within a very small-niche market - they don't have millions to spend in a mass advertising campaign despite what many people may think. They often include flyers in their certified Computer Games & most people into roleplay games, or fantasy/sci-fi fiction, or else historical wargames, will of at least heard of them, so there's no reason to advertise in other war-gaming publications. They've done alternative board games with Fantasy Flight, CCG's etc - explored those avenues already as well.
As for the mass media, like Newspapers, Men's magazines, TV/Radio etc I don't see them fitting in anywhere and it will be a waste of money to attempt it. No one who picks up the Metro is likely going to be persuaded to get into the hobby in a mere 100 or so words, no matter how well conceived/written, nor will they be with a 30 second TV ad. They sell a selection of their products in most independent Toy Stores - and all it takes is for someone or a child with their parent to look & ask 'what is that about?' This is why the visual themes & mythology are so key to their success IMO. I still maintain one has to be of a certain disposition to be attracted to the imagery enough to become financially involved.
I think the push for more of their 'one man stores' in smaller towns across the U.K is an experiment in advertising in-itself. To have a greater High Street presence in more places with low rental/staffing costs is a good idea, given the amount of kids who come and go, perhaps stay, to the hobby.
The only other type of advertising would be through a movie. Although I liked Ultramarines (given the clear financial constraints involved I think Codex did well, the sound in particular is very good) To do a GW film and to do it well would take $100,000,000 + and then what story do you tell? Fantasy, 40k? Vlad's assent & siege of Altdorf? The Heresy in 3hrs? The Battle for Mcragge? Sadly I don't think the mythology will ever be presented to such a high level, so that's mass popular culture on the level of Star Wars & LOTR written off. I still think GW are in need of a computer game masterpiece akin to Halo, the average COD game or Gears etc in order for such a possibility to even be conceived.
This only leaves advertising within the fantasy wargaming community itself & we, by and large, do it for them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/05 11:42:41
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Norn Queen
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All valid points!
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Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 15:03:34
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Brigadier General
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As to granting interviews:
Why would GW want to do an interview with a writer who already believes that wargaming is only for nerds, unfasionable and not cool ("rock n roll"). I don't for a moment believe that granting an interview would have changed the authors slant.
"It seems impossible for any journalist to start a report involving role playing or video games without referencing darkened bedrooms, maladjusted teenagers or geeks in general. "
No actually, it would be easy, just don't pander to stereotypes by putting "darkened bedrooms, maladjusted teenagers or geeks " in the first sentence of your article.
All that asside, the real issue is simply that it's a poorly written article. The author (purposefully not using the term journalist here) hasn't done enough research to really discuss the public conception view of GW, GW in video games, The history of GW, or it's business practices -any of which could have filled an article as short as this one- so he just mashed what little he had together into this content-farm-quality tribute to mediocrity.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/05/06 15:12:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 16:24:47
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Maybe if GW had granted an interview they could have assisted him in writing a piece that wasn't full of misinformation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 18:10:55
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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The only way GW and 'The Hobby' will ever shift the nerdly stigma is by getting out into the light, as it were, and into the public consciousness. The Dawn of War PC games go some way towards this but it is infuriating to think that GW could do just a little bit more to make gaming a bit more mainstream.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 18:33:12
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Thing is, even if GW shoved someone forward to represent the company, who would it be? Uncle Jervis maybe?
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 18:34:23
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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BrookM wrote:Thing is, even if GW shoved someone forward to represent the company, who would it be? Uncle Jervis maybe?
*Shudder*
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 19:18:11
Subject: Re:opening up the world of warhammer...
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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Part social club, part specialist retailer, the only thing like it is an Apple Store – except nobody is drawn to a Games Workshop to appear fashionable.
They also forgot to add that with unusual exception it's not full of elitist snobs (*speaks as a mac user*)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/06 19:53:23
Subject: opening up the world of warhammer...
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Eilif wrote:As to granting interviews:
Why would GW want to do an interview with a writer who already believes that wargaming is only for nerds, unfasionable and not cool ("rock n roll"). I don't for a moment believe that granting an interview would have changed the authors slant.
"It seems impossible for any journalist to start a report involving role playing or video games without referencing darkened bedrooms, maladjusted teenagers or geeks in general. "
No actually, it would be easy, just don't pander to stereotypes by putting "darkened bedrooms, maladjusted teenagers or geeks " in the first sentence of your article.
All that asside, the real issue is simply that it's a poorly written article. The author (purposefully not using the term journalist here) hasn't done enough research to really discuss the public conception view of GW, GW in video games, The history of GW, or it's business practices -any of which could have filled an article as short as this one- so he just mashed what little he had together into this content-farm-quality tribute to mediocrity.
I think this is exactly it.
The "article" was a hiding for nothing and probably written by a junior writer to fill space.
If someone was rooled out as a spokes person I bet they would have received the "Matt walked in - not your typical geek but....."
Apart from anything else who reading the metro is going to uddenly have an epithany and start 40K.
For their part GW goes mainstream with the computer games, short of a proper film I can really see what else the could do, print agvertising would be a waste of money.
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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