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Hello and thanks for reading

I'm currently playing around 1250 points (army is slowly growing)

My list is

2x dp's (1 lash, 1 warptime both wings)
2x Noise marines - rhino - doomsiren
1x Noise marines - blastmaster
and the defiler..

Now i've only played 3 games with my Defiler but each one he is incredibly lackluster - I find i cant assault because my opponents have monstrous creatures who attack first and are pretty much guaranteed to pop him and i've only managed to hit twice, in three games with my battlecannon (splatted a unit of kroot and hit, penetrated, rolled 2d6 on the damage table of a wave serpent and rolled 2 twice.....)

I keep thinking of replacing the amazing, beautiful model that i love so much with 2 obliterators as i feel they'll be more effective?

My current tactics are basically storm the Defiler up the map (away from MC's) and try to get close enough to assault a infantry squad (never happened yet) while blasting battle cannon fire at targets of opportunity. He's normally equipped with all CCW.

Soo, what am i doing wrong? How can I improve?

Noise marines are notoriously uncompetitive.

You could always stick a lash on the other DP, add some meltas to open transports, and lash things to the defiler to eat.

Well, one walker is an obvious target, especially in a list like yours. Two, or even three though, and you might start getting places. Sort of. It's not the most effective unit in the codex, or in the heavy support slot. People are always spamming obliterators for a reason, and it isn't the models.

Still, you have the right idea for your defiler. Defilers are combat units, more than they are anything else. Do a search on "Monster Mash" lists, and perhaps look for tricks for using chaos dreadnoughts without really terrible consequences. You might also think about ways of putting weapons in your lists that can hurt monstrous creatures and vehicles and support the walker advance. For example, a small squad of Raptors with meltaguns- capable of keeping up and even scooting ahead to nail an important vehicle. Agh, I feel like a GW sales rep talking like that. Don't look to the raptors first. Really you also want to consider more troops choices in rhinos, especially ones that can take meltaguns, or at least plasma weapons. Unfortunately I don't think Noise Marines are the greatest choice for a list based around defilers, since the walkers don't have very good anti-vehicle/MC capacities, and Noise Marines can't make up for that either.

Edit: search "CSM Monster Mash" as otherwise you'll get a lot of results on Skaven....

I have this dream of a fluffy army! Based as a Slaaneshi warband full of noise marines!

I used to have double lash but got told it was very, very cheesy (though i do love lash so!)

Embarassing as it may be.. i never thought about lashing things TO the defiler, i've always lashed them into pieplate shapes instead.

Do you think two obliterators (at that points level) would be more effective that the Defiler?

Not to be harsh, but they probably won't be less effective. By much, anyway. Two individual Obliterators- or a squad of 2- would have to be well-placed and kind of lucky to be really effective, though. They have the same problem as the Defiler, of being high-priority targets and moreover, they move slower than most infantry.

I understand the desire for a fluffy army! You might as well try double-lash, since an army full of Noise Marines is often going to face an uphill battle as it is. That's my reasoning, anyway.

If you're playing Noise marines just about anything else in your list will be higher priority than your troops. It gets even worse for large things like Defilers that can be killed with a single lucky shot.

I have found the most effective defiler is 2+ CCW and then multiples. I have seen a khorne list that goes 2 x DP ( or 1 + kharne), 1 GD and 3 defilers. The point of it is to overwhelm with MC and defilers and then toss in your CC troops to tip the scales. Past berzerkers, you have at your fingertips one of the most effective CC armies if you set them up that way. Noise marines w/o any noise weapons except the aspiring champion with doom siren. You doom siren a target and follow it up with 3 attacks per noise marine going off at I 5 and you will clean most marines. The problem here is taking noise marines w/o the sonic blasters or blastmasters.

I wouldn't say Lash is cheesy in an Emperors Children army what so ever.

Personally, I'd use Defilers as mobile covering fire. Just move the 6" forwards, firing the battle cannon and then charging/counter-charging when close enough. With fleet, walker and that laavely main gun, I'd say the Defiler's best for covering fire, then quickly charging the enemy.

As has been said though, they're a big target, so best taken in pairs...

When I was still running CSM I would normally use my defilers as CC beats. Run them across the field, with Dread CCW and assault. If you need the extra fire power you can always battle cannon for a turn and then keep the pressure on the enemy.

There's always the option of hiding the Defiler behind cover and blasting away with the cannon. AV12 in cover that ignores shaken and stunned with such good CC is incredibly difficult to shut up, especially so if there's more than one of them. You've got 72" range, make sure you abuse it as much as possible.

In an all-comers list, 2x Obliterators will probably be more effective due to the smaller size and flexible weapons.
That being said, I run with 2-3 Defilers and I have no plans of changing it up anytime soon.

Battlecannons are simply awesome weapons but with BS3 you gotta think like IG and take multiples. I also take the RAC as a backup weapons as well as +1 DCCW mostly because the Reaper is a Chaos-only weapon and its pretty decent at busting open light transports like Raiders.

Tactically I use my Defilers as bullet magnets for my Rhinos usually walking them behind my Rhinos dropping pie plates until we get into knife fighting range and then its fleets/assault/squish.
Don't go after MCs or I4 Dreadnoughts, send your Berzerkers/CSMs/DPs etc after those. Go after shooty units you can tarpit or start tearing apart tanks. It really helps to run them alongside your infantry as mutual support.

Personally I'd put another more threatening unit out there to distract your opponent from the Defilers. I run two defilers with my thousand sons, and run a giant squad of Terminators, which I walk toward to the enemy line. The Terminators i made bare bones to avoid making the unit too costly. (outside of mark of Tzn, cause i wanted to stay fluffy) Most games, my opponent spends their first to shooting phases focus firing everything on my Terminators. Leaving my defilers to shoot un-harassed. This might not work against all opponents, and i your case, you'll have 2+/5+ vs my 2+/4+) however if your opponent makes the mistake then of ignoring your terminators you'll suddenly be hitting his troops with I6 power weapons. (assuming you want to use MoS on your termies) This might be a nice way to build up to 1,500pnts. It's what I would try anyways.

minigun762 wrote:In an all-comers list, 2x Obliterators will probably be more effective due to the smaller size and flexible weapons.
That being said, I run with 2-3 Defilers and I have no plans of changing it up anytime soon.

Battlecannons are simply awesome weapons but with BS3 you gotta think like IG and take multiples. I also take the RAC as a backup weapons as well as +1 DCCW mostly because the Reaper is a Chaos-only weapon and its pretty decent at busting open light transports like Raiders.

Tactically I use my Defilers as bullet magnets for my Rhinos usually walking them behind my Rhinos dropping pie plates until we get into knife fighting range and then its fleets/assault/squish.
Don't go after MCs or I4 Dreadnoughts, send your Berzerkers/CSMs/DPs etc after those. Go after shooty units you can tarpit or start tearing apart tanks. It really helps to run them alongside your infantry as mutual support.

I second this advice. I wouldn't underestimate the armour saturation of Defilers either; more shots at them means less at your precious rhinos, which is something Obliterators don't really provide...

Correction, you'll have I5 power weapons.

You need to run them in multiples for them to survive in 5th. Until you can field 2 of them I would go with Obliterators instead, at 1250 I'd run a single prince and try to get more bodies on the board.

Treat the defiler like a Basilisk and hide it behind a building for a 4+ cover save. The beast is just tall enough that it's head and gun only will stick over the roof of most GW buildings.

Thanks for the advice people, i'll try some of this on sunday!

As a walker is a vehicle, if its in close combat is it protected from being shot at or not ?

Incurus wrote:Thanks for the advice people, i'll try some of this on sunday!

As a walker is a vehicle, if its in close combat is it protected from being shot at or not ?

Yes, it is safe from shooting in CC.

Beautiful, so more practice for me in the hiding my huge clawed monstrostity by nomming tasty squishies!

Incurus wrote:I have this dream of a fluffy army! Based as a Slaaneshi warband full of noise marines!

I used to have double lash but got told it was very, very cheesy (though i do love lash so!)

Embarassing as it may be.. i never thought about lashing things TO the defiler, i've always lashed them into pieplate shapes instead.

Do you think two obliterators (at that points level) would be more effective that the Defiler?

double lash is a little cheesy, but if you have a noise marine army all is forgiven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:I wouldn't say Lash is cheesy in an Emperors Children army what so ever.
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+1