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I found this list right here Dakka, I give all credit to Aldarionn for making it. It seems like a very solid list, and I'm starting up GKs very soon, I'm going to be buying the models that are on the list this upcoming Friday. Before I do though I want some opinions so I know this is a very good and competitive list..... Again all credit to Aldarionn for making it.

Crowe - 150
Venerable Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon) - 195
Venerable Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon) - 195
Vindicare Assassin - 145
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannon, 5x Halberd, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 335
10 Purifiers (4x Psycannon, 5x Halberd, Hammer, Rhino) - 335
5 Purifiers (2x Psycannon, 2x Halberd, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 194
5 Purifiers (2x Psycannon, 2x Halberd, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 194
Total 1,748

Nothing really to add if you like this list really.
Unless you want to go for another build that is.

When it comes to purifier lists, this one is one of the better ones.

It all comes down on how you want to play and what you think is "cool".
Playing an army made by someone else just because its good usually ends up in waste of time and money.

Hehehe I was gonna say, that looks familiar

I normally wouldn't field a Vindicare but I kinda like him in that list. There are enough threats, Crowe included, that he might be overlooked at first and he could potentially do some damage. At the very least he could strip the Invulnerable Save off an HQ and make him easier to kill, or knock off a few heavy/special weapon models.

Of course, since I helped design the list I won't give any further commentary except to defend my choices or elaborate on what others say

Aldarionn wrote:Hehehe I was gonna say, that looks familiar

I normally wouldn't field a Vindicare but I kinda like him in that list. There are enough threats, Crowe included, that he might be overlooked at first and he could potentially do some damage. At the very least he could strip the Invulnerable Save off an HQ and make him easier to kill, or knock off a few heavy/special weapon models.

Of course, since I helped design the list I won't give any further commentary except to defend my choices or elaborate on what others say

Well a question to you then (as I see you as one of the more active and knowledgeable GK writers here).
I have been thinking of an alternative setting for the van dread.
One assault cannon and of course one twin-linked auto cannon. Adding the psybolt of course.

Would this be less effective?
I figure that with the assault cannon it becomes more of a threat vs infantry as SMs if there are no transports to target.
Heck it could even try it's luck vs a Land raider.

Well, I'm primarily a Space Wolves player, but since the release of Codex:GK I've decided I want to give them a shot and have been playing test games with them recently

The issue I have with the Autocannon/Assault Cannon build is the mixed range. It costs the same as a Psyfleman Dread (195 for Venerable, 135 for standard) but one weapon has half the range of the other, which means in order for it to be effective you need to move forward with the Dread and potentially put it in harms way. 2x TL Autocannons is technically less dangerous when all weapons are able to fire, but you can keep them way in the back and still shoot everything. Venerable Dreadnoughts are durable, but moving into Melta range has a significant impact on their life expectancy.

Grey Knights have a general lack firepower over 24", so my stance is that anything you can take to increase long ranged anti-tank is going to be superior to shorter ranged options. Most of your infantry should have Psycannons firing on the move with the same range as their Storm Bolters, so there is no conflict, but putting one on a Dreadnought that's otherwise armed for long ranged firepower is a poor choice.

Now I DO think that if you are fielding Stormravens, it would be nice to take 2x Venerable Psyflemans and then 1 regular Dreadnought per Storm Raven armed with an Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer and Psybolt Ammo. The unfortunate part is that they are all so expensive you don't have a lot of room left over for troops and HQ.

Just my thoughts.

I run a similar crowe build. i personally would make the ven dreds into regular dreds and combat squad the purifier squads. it may just be me but i always am a sucker for a second hq so i run a GM or lib in addition to crowe and maybe a bodyguard if i can squeeze the points out of the list

That seems like a lot of excessive points for not much gain. What does a Grand Master gain you in a Purifier list, since Crowe already makes them scoring and they don't need much else. Rad Grenades are nice, but you could get them for much cheaper with an Ordo Xenos inquisitor.

As for the Venerable Dread - Regular Dread discussion, I'm now in the "Venerable Dread unless you absolutely can't fit them" camp, primarily because each Venerable Dread is 3x as durable against Missile fire and its equivalents than a standard Dread. 2x Venerable Dreads will last twice as long as 3x Regular Dreads and put out about the same or better firepower over 4-5 turns due to the extra accuracy. If you don't believe me, do the math. I was firmly on the "no Venerable Dreads" side until I ran the numbers, and it's pretty conclusive.

Why would you combat squad the purifiers? It seems like it would only serve to lessen the force of your attack in this type of list.

Don't get me wrong, if you have valid reasons for your advice I'm more than willing to listen, but I like to have an explanation behind the advice being given or I'm less inclined to take it seriously.

Question for Aldarionn: On my list where it says Psybolt ammo for the Razorbacks does that mean Lascannon with the Psybolt ammo, if that is even possible? Also about the Purifier squads what do the ones that don't have Psycannons, Halberds, or Hammers get? Do they get NFWs, because I don't want to build any of the models wrong. Also I'm getting the codex this Friday so that should help. Thanks guys!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Surfboard66 wrote:Question for Aldarionn: On my list where it says Psybolt ammo for the Razorbacks does that mean Lascannon with the Psybolt ammo, if that is even possible? Also about the Purifier squads what do the ones that don't have Psycannons, Halberds, or Hammers get? Do they get NFWs, because I don't want to build any of the models wrong. Next does the Assassin get the Extuis Rifle? Also I'm getting the codex this Friday so that should help. Thanks guys!

Surfboard66 wrote:Question for Aldarionn: On my list where it says Psybolt ammo for the Razorbacks does that mean Lascannon with the Psybolt ammo, if that is even possible?

No, it's not possible. Razorbacks have a Heavy Bolter as a base weapon. The Psybolt Ammo upgrade is to make this a S6 AP4 weapon. No other weapon upgrades are taken for the Razorbacks.

Surfboard66 wrote:Also about the Purifier squads what do the ones that don't have Psycannons, Halberds, or Hammers get? Do they get NFWs, because I don't want to build any of the models wrong.

Every model in the squad has one of the weapons lsited.

10 Purifiers have 4x Psycannons, 5x Halberds and 1x Daemon Hammer. That means 4 Purifiers each replace their Nemesis Force Sword and Storm Bolter with a Psycannon, 5 Purifiers each replace their Nemesis Force Sword with a Nemesis Force Halberd, and the Knight of the Flame replaces his Nemesis Force Sword with a Nemesis Daemon Hammer. This is the same for the smaller units as well, who have two models with Psycannons, two models with Halberds, and a Knight of the Flame with a Daemon Hammer.

Does that clarify the setup?

Thanks Aldarionn you cleared it up. You have been a huge help to me. Thank you very very much.

No problem! Good luck, and please let me know how the list performs. I'll be trying something like it over the next few weeks myself, but I'd love to hear how someone else does with it.

Aldarionn wrote:Well, I'm primarily a Space Wolves player, but since the release of Codex:GK I've decided I want to give them a shot and have been playing test games with them recently

The issue I have with the Autocannon/Assault Cannon build is the mixed range. It costs the same as a Psyfleman Dread (195 for Venerable, 135 for standard) but one weapon has half the range of the other, which means in order for it to be effective you need to move forward with the Dread and potentially put it in harms way. 2x TL Autocannons is technically less dangerous when all weapons are able to fire, but you can keep them way in the back and still shoot everything. Venerable Dreadnoughts are durable, but moving into Melta range has a significant impact on their life expectancy.

Grey Knights have a general lack firepower over 24", so my stance is that anything you can take to increase long ranged anti-tank is going to be superior to shorter ranged options. Most of your infantry should have Psycannons firing on the move with the same range as their Storm Bolters, so there is no conflict, but putting one on a Dreadnought that's otherwise armed for long ranged firepower is a poor choice.

Now I DO think that if you are fielding Stormravens, it would be nice to take 2x Venerable Psyflemans and then 1 regular Dreadnought per Storm Raven armed with an Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer and Psybolt Ammo. The unfortunate part is that they are all so expensive you don't have a lot of room left over for troops and HQ.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the info.
Some times you get blind from certain parts. Not playing as much as I did, I need to rely on what experts say basically
24" on the assault cannon I had totally forgotten, in the hunt for more power.
But it leaves me to think of what I would do vs Rifle dreads sitting in the back while the rest of the enemies army is moving forward.
Most likely I would focus my short range anti tank on the advancing units (melta weapons) and my las cannons on the support units rifle dreads.

With that said, the range the autocannon is neutralized. It will be shot.
Of course, by moving forward, meltaguns will be an issue, but since the rest of the army is advancing (perhaps faster since they are transports), the meltas would be more focused on the transports still (to make sure the contents inside fall out)?

My other issue is that I personally usually field suicide units who are vehicle hunters.
Lots of armies have them.
For my IG I have 2 Storm trooper units with meltaguns who deep strike (re-roll). Sure they cost 105 pts each, but they usually get the job done.
SM have tons of options to deal with it I think. Drop pods and what not.

Basically... range is not an issue I think... but that perhaps because where I play people tend to have surprises wherever we place our units.

Anyhow, I am not disagreeing with you. And thanks for the help.

Aldarionn - Dude. Why have you used razorbacks over rhinos for two of the squads. I see this disabling their psycannons until they get out.

Additionally, why ten man squads that will probably end up staying inside the rhino? why not another number... 8?

I am very much on the ven dread camp as well. However I only take them in 1500+ games, just due to their points.

My thoughts, I think this list could be enhanced by an interceptor sqd that can sit towards the rear, interdict enemy plans and also objective contest at the last turn. Even with random turns...it's hard to wipe them via shooting in a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my list:

Crowe: 150pts

Inquis: 49pts
(rad nades, 3 x servo)

Elites:

2 x Psy Ven Dread: (195pts ea)

Troops:

2 x 8 Purifiers: (265pts ea)
1 x hammer
4 x halberds
2 x psycannons
1 x rhino

1 x 7 purifiers: 234 pts
4 x halberds
2 x psycannons
1 x rhino

10 x strike sqd 250pts
1 x razorback (psy ammo)

FAST ATTACK:

5 x interceptors 130pts

TOTAL: 1735pts (still looking to spend the last 15)

Thoughts?

You should not put the hammer on the knight of flame. He dies first to a perils, and has the same number of attacks as every one else. Put the hammer on a regular dude. KoF gets a halberd

there is no difference in stats between the two (KoF and a Purifier). They advantage of the KoF having a hammer is that he can have it mastercrafted, allowing it to be re-rolled to wound. This is important, because it will then kill a model, or if they don't die, render them I1. Against vehs it is irrelevant.

Surfboard66,

I think this is a very solid list. I have been playing GK none stop since the "leaked" codex has come out. The Venerable dreds are fantastic, 8 str autocannons are brutal. And anyone that has played with the Pyscannons knows the potential. But also, think about having a couple Incinerators in your list. str 6 ap 4 flamer, that is basically wounding on a 2 on MOST armies, and many of the ones you are hitting on 2's are instantly dead, double their toughness.

Also what about this?

Crowe - 150
Dreadnought(2x TL Autocannon, Pysbolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought(2x TL Autocannon, Pysbolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought(2x TL Autocannon, Pysbolt Ammo) - 135

10 Purifiers (3x Psycannons, 1x Incinerator, 5x Halberd, MC Hammer) - 325
6 Purifiers (1x Pyscannon, 1x Incinerator, x3 Halberd, x1 MC Hammer) - 210
6 Purifiers (1x Pyscannon, 1x Incinerator, x3 Halberd, x1 MC Hammer) - 210
6 Purifiers (1x Pyscannon, 1x Incinerator, x3 Halberd, x1 MC Hammer) - 210

1510 atm.

Can add a lot of things at this point.
Vindicare
Another 6 man of Purifiers
Jump all of the Rhinos to Razorbacks






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eagleeye wrote:Aldarionn - Dude. Why have you used razorbacks over rhinos for two of the squads. I see this disabling their psycannons until they get out.

The reason is because both the unit and the razorback is a threat. Especially with Fortitude on the Razorback. You are forced to remove the vehicle and the unit. With Rhinos, after the unit gets out if it has to, the rhino is a waste of space. But it is a tose up on whether or not that is reason enough to spend another 40 points for a vehicle.

The only thing I'll add to this thread is that always think of your backfield and the enemies backfield. Most successful lists utilize a strong ability to disrupt the enemies backfield. As such you should also be expecting the same.

Wolf scouts, drop pod Dreads, BA deepstrikes, Vandettas all have the ability to be in your deployment causing issues. You equally should consider ways to do the same to the enemy.

From all the games I've played (and they've all been Crowe builds as well) Ive come to the realization that I needed something to hit the backlines and hit it hard. I tried Interceptors and while nice shooting, they arent super durable and will die to sustatined fire. I opted for a teleporting DK with the sword. It's a huge chunk of points but draws fire from your transports/dreads and can absolutely decimate the opponents backline.

Otherwise, the lists look pretty standard Crowe builds and all should work well enough. I do feel that if you're fielding Puri's go 5 men, 6men, or 10 nothing in between. 5 or 6 for Psybacks, 10 for Rhinos and if you go 10 it also tends to be worthwhile to pop Psybolt ammo on the squad since they become long range Tau guns at BS4 and it amounts to 2ish pts per model.

Incinerator's are a no no. Keep in mind GK's are still just basic marines. We lost WS5, Str6, and True Grit. Incinerator's mean you are in assault range which is not where the PAGK wants to be. In the end you will be hitting on 4's mostly and wounding on 4's mostly unless you Hammerhand. Even so you are looking at statistically half your attacks missing to even hit and another half or 1/3 not even wounding. Add in that nearly half of each squad isnt even carrying a power weapon (Incinerator/Psycannon) it means you will be killing 2-4 models in CC. Stick to midfield shooting with PAGK's and you will have more success then trying to get into Incinerator range.

The only thing I don't like about the list is the Vindicare honestly. Assassins tend to do things in a somewhat gimmicky way and epitomize glass cannons. I honestly feel like you'd be better kept to have a naked Dreadknight or another Psyrifleman Dread depending on how you would rather play.

Dreadknight is a fire draw that can mess up HQs or AV14 if he's not killed by the time he slogs across the table and he'll be running during shooting phases without any armament. Can take more fire than Vindicare easily.

PR Dread will do what a PR Does, shoot and can keep flank with the enemy, now you'll have 3 major fire lines Running S8/AP4 shots. Will be weaker than the Vens but can put out almost the same fire (Losing BS5 but keeping TL...) but not nearly as weak as vindicare and more reliable.

Personally my Crowe Build goes one of two ways. I keep a base army list of Crowe plus 4x 5man Purifier Units kitted with 2x psycannon, 3x halberd in a rhino. (894 HQ+Troops Base) That gives me 4 targets for psycannons per turn in pillboxes. From here I've got a few different builds that I'm starting to enjoy.

One is 2x Venerable PR Dreads, 1x Reg PR Dread, 1x Hammer Purifier, 2x Halberd Purifiers to toss into different squads. 1500 Points
This my pretty standard cover fire assault list, move purifiers under the cover of PR dreads. I generally like to have one dread walk with the Assault and the other two take flank shots.

One is 2x Teleporter/Heavy Incinerator DK, 1x Reg PR Dread. 1499 Points
This is my punk list. Shunt ASAP and keep their backlines busy while purifiers move towards objectives. Generally run in 2 2x Squad Packs towards stuff.

therwise, the lists look pretty standard Crowe builds and all should work well enough. I do feel that if you're fielding Puri's go 5 men, 6men, or 10 nothing in between. 5 or 6 for Psybacks, 10 for Rhinos and if you go 10 it also tends to be worthwhile to pop Psybolt ammo on the squad since they become long range Tau guns at BS4 and it amounts to 2ish pts per model.

What is the reasoning behind 5,6 or 10 model units? Is there a science/art behind the disadvantages a 7,8 or 9 model unit brings?

Is there a significant difference between 5 and 6 model units?

I ask this because, I do not think 5 model marine units are effective - whilst you save points, you have a very fragile unit - enough fire power will see them wiped pretty early (fire warriors, guard, scouts and even orks!) Whilst there are obvious advantages to a ten model units (extra weapon options and combat squading), I only see this as significantly beneficial over a nine model unit not an 8 or 7, which is where I like to play -

IMO - 7/8 are the optimum, there are enough models to take casualties - then there are also enough to withstand an assault and do some damage and they can put out quite alot of fire as required.

Eagle