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I am trying to figure out where I saw it. Not sure. When you build a unit of chariots with FC does that take up the 3 models of the first rank?

For example if Wanted to includ characters and I was running my chariots 4 wide it would have to be deployed as such:

X Chariot
C Character
F command model

X X X C
F F C F

Is that unit deployed correctly?

SECOND QUESTION AND MORE IMPORTANT! (saw this on another forum)

Casting Cursed Blades on a charging chariot unit.

Do the impact hits get Killing Blow?

I think yes. As they are hits in combat and no faq rules against it.

yes, the command models will push excess characters into the rear rank.

said characters can make way when you get into Combat if you wish and they can then stay in the front rank, but when you deploy the command has to be in the front rank.

Posted more to question on chariots rather then make a new thread about it. Impact hits getting killing blow via spell.

No, Impact hits and Stomps are explicitly stated as not gaining any special rules which a model might have.

the only thing they can gain is str buffs because they are based solely on the models Str. anything which modifies that value will effect the impacts and stomps.

Grey Templar wrote:No, Impact hits and Stomps are explicitly stated as not gaining any special rules which a model might have.

the only thing they can gain is str buffs because they are based solely on the models Str. anything which modifies that value will effect the impacts and stomps.

It is not a special rule for the model. Impact hits are close combat attacks as stated on pg 71 BR.

Incantation of Cursed Blades is an augment spell with a range of 12". The target unit's close combat attacks gain the killing blow ability until the start of your next magic phase. If the target unit's attacks already have killing blow or heroic killing blow ability, these will take effect on any to wound rolls of a 5 or 6 whilst this spell is in play. The wizard can choose to extend the range of his spell to 24". If he does so, the casting value is increased to 10+.


Where does it state they cant benefit from this spell. Can I get a page number or reference?

Added the faq of where you might of got that. Unfortunately it only mentions stomp not impact hits.

Q: Do Stomps or Thunderstomps benefit from any other special
rules, equipment or magic items? Or vice versa? (p76)
A: No to both questions.

Its because these attacks are given a specific way they are resolved.


it says that impact hits are done at the Str of the model and are done before any blows are resolved(even ASF)


because of this, they arn't normal attacks and as such can't benifit from any bonuses.

Stomps are also like this. they are a special attack resolved ar the models Str and have the ASL special rule.

Grey Templar wrote:Its because these attacks are given a specific way they are resolved.


it says that impact hits are done at the Str of the model and are done before any blows are resolved(even ASF)


because of this, they arn't normal attacks and as such can't benifit from any bonuses.

Stomps are also like this. they are a special attack resolved ar the models Str and have the ASL special rule.

Again no pages. Do you have pages to reference to support that it does not work?

Page 71, the Impact Hit entry.


a better question is, do YOU have a page reference for them working on the Impact hits?

Impact hits are only CC attacks for the purposes of Combat res.

The spell listed above combined with the the page number you provided, and I qoute:

"Finally, as impact hits are close combat attacks"

Pg. 71 of the BR. last paragraph first sentence. It goes on to state they count towards combat resolution because they are close combat attacks, just as any more conventional close combat attacks would.

Seems pretty clear here.

I'm leaning against GT on this one - only stomp/tstomp are explicitly denied the benefit of any special rule or spell, impact hits are not.

perhaps, but it is shaky at best.


speak to your opponent, or TO, before hand as with all ambiguities.

Well they are close combat attacks, and the spell modifies all close combat attacks.

Not shaky rules wise.

RAW would indeed give the chariot KB. Thunderstomp and Impact hits should not be linked together.. they are not transitive.

As a TO I would rule that they do - currently. Unless GW FAQ's it.

without the army book or my rulebook in front of me I would have to say no, they don't receive killing blow. Going by the spell description you gave, the spell affects close combat attacks, not hits. Which to me, indicates anything that's an attack would benefit from it and I don't think Impact Hits count as they are "hits" not "attacks". But like I said, I don't have the rules on hand to make a 100% decision on the matter.

"Impact hits" are, according to the BRB, "close combat attacks", so they do count.

A model's special rules don't normally apply to impact hits, but the model isn't what's being offered Killing Blow here; it's the model's close combat attacks themselves.

Warpsolution wrote:A model's special rules don't normally apply to impact hits, but the model isn't what's being offered Killing Blow here; it's the model's close combat attacks themselves.

Does the spell specifically say that the close combat attacks are killing blow, or that the model gains the killing blow special rule?

The model's close combat attacks gain killing blow

ShivanAngel wrote:The model's close combat attacks gain killing blow

As Shivan says.

Scarecrow, the OP's quote in the 5th post is directly from the book. The spell grants KB to the attacks, NOT the model.

Clear - "The target unit's close combat Attacks gain the Killing Blow ability until the start of your next Magic phase."

I need to check the rules on casting multiple spells on a unit, but my first thought on this would be casting it twice on a unit would give them a 5+ KB.

"If the target unit's Attacks already have the Killing Blow or Heroic Killing Blow ability, these will take effect on any Toughness Wound rolls of 5 or 6 whilst this spell is in play."

It does not specify if the MODEL has the KB rule, it specifies if the ATTACK has the KB rule - which it would after the first casting. I don't have the book with me at work, so I would need to check the rules on magic.

Yes - you can cast it twice and the effects would "stack" to 5+

maaksel wrote:Clear - "The target unit's close combat Attacks gain the Killing Blow ability until the start of your next Magic phase."

I need to check the rules on casting multiple spells on a unit, but my first thought on this would be casting it twice on a unit would give them a 5+ KB.

"If the target unit's Attacks already have the Killing Blow or Heroic Killing Blow ability, these will take effect on any Toughness Wound rolls of 5 or 6 whilst this spell is in play."

It does not specify if the MODEL has the KB rule, it specifies if the ATTACK has the KB rule - which it would after the first casting. I don't have the book with me at work, so I would need to check the rules on magic.

It would stack but the only way to do so is to have khatep with lore master and another wizard of nehekara and roll that spell. As there is not other way to take the same spell that is available to the tomb kings.

Hmm 5+ KB skelespear horde... It might just be worth the investment to have the spell twice.

It's a tough call, actually. The FAQs kind of wish-wash on it. Lizardman War-Spear impact hits are deemed magical, which says they can be modified. But Daemon spell Miasma of Pestilence doesn't affect Impact hits which seems to say they can't be modified.

The page you all keep quoting in the BRB you're only partially quoting. The subject of the paragraph is that Impact Hits count toward combat resolution. Not that Impact hits may be modified by augment spells--OH, and they affect combat resolution.

But.......from the FAQ:

Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as
Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks?
(p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed
as a shooting attack.

The paragraph still defines Impact Hits as close comabt attacks

You then have a spell stating it modifies close combat attacks

Thats the proof there.

You now need something that states they are not explicitly close combat attacks - and that FAQ answer does not explicitly cover Impact hits.

What abot wildform, mindrazor or the AP spell, where do we draw the line?

BTW i would love it if mindrazor worked, it's no advantage to my stegs (maybe for the babies but kinda meh), but sounds funny as hell

DukeRustfield:
from which faq did you find that?

nosferatu1001:
Doesn't the faq trump the rulebook anyway, as it's similar to an update to the rulebook?

In general the special rules are not close combat attacks
Specifically impact hits, while being special rules, ARE cllose combat attacks

FAQ isnt trumping the rulebook here, as it lacks the specificity required.

It's obviously a special rule. That's where it's located, otherwise you'd have no idea how they work. The FAQ explicitly states they are distributed as a shooting attack and don't count as close combat attacks. It's pretty simple, because p. 46 has how Close Combat works, including striking order, roll to hit. Those aren't done with Impact Hits.

Anyway, p42 the box "Resolving Unusual Attacks" defines Impact Hits specificially as "unusual attacks" (per the box heading)
p66 the title Special Rules, which lists Impact Hits and how to use them
p. 71 bottom, impact hits are close combat "of an unusual type"
p. 86 Chariots definition, "they have the Impact Hits (D6) special rule"

Then the BRB FAQ on the GW website which lists:

Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as
Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks?
(p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed
as a shooting attack.

It's been stated repeatedly it's a special rule and it's an unusual attack (twice on each count). It therefore doesn't count as a close combat attack per this FAQ. Not sure what more you want. The FAQ itself mentions "in close combat" doesn't count as a "close combat attack."

Considering pg 71 specifically states the are close combat attacks, what more do you want? They may be "unusual", but it clearly says they are close combat attacks. Not just that they occur "in close combat", but black and white "as Impact Hits are close combat attacks".

The FAQ does not contradict this, or specifically change how impact hits work.

Let's go over this again:

Q: Do special rules that can inflict hits in close combat, such as
Stomp and Breath Weapons, count as close combat attacks?
(p42)
A: No they count as an unusual attack and will be distributed
as a shooting attack.

It's listed under special rules. It IS a special rule. You have no idea how they work otherwise.

It inflicts hits in close combat. "Impact Hits are resolved at the very beginning of close combat"

Even the definition of Stomp says "model...can make a Stomp in addition to its OTHER close combat attacks." "Other" implies Stomp is a close combat attack--or it would have ommitted other. Cuz it is. It takes place close.

Fortunately, the FAQ has stated that Special Rules, that inflict hits in close combat, "SUCH AS" Stomp and Breath Weapons are not close combat attacks. They said "such as," knowing us smart people would know that also includes Thunderstomp and Impact Hits--the only other things that are special rules that inflict hits in close combat. (Stuff like Extra Attacks actually modifying the unit characteristics.)

But just to take the socratic method:

-Do you agree Impact Hits are a special rule? Y/N
-Do you agree that they inflict hits in close combat? Y/N
-Do you agree that a FAQ on the BRB superceeds the BRB? Y/N