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Hi all

As I started my Campaign to Free Warhammer Quest, I got to thinking about GW's OOP & Specialist Games and thought we could start a general discussion on these games, both supported and unsupported, and whether or not we would like to see such games get a 'Space Hulk' treatment. I know GW angered a lot of people in their 'Great Purge of 09' and wondered if any of you would care to share your thoughts on GW's OOP product & if you would support such product should it be re-released in a similar fashion to Space Hulk.

I apologise to the MODS (I hope you guys understand Warhammer Quest needs the exposure) but I would also like to take this opportunity to officially announce that the Campaign to Free Warhammer Quest is a go!

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/05/15/community-pimp-warhammer-quest/

Hopefully similar posts will be up on BOLS & Beasts of War soon. I have been very busy & have emailed every club on GW's Gaming Club Network here in the UK, as well as the Black Library, Gav Thorpe, Dan Abnett, Graham Mcneil, Mike Mcvey, Rankings HQ, the Bens at the Bad Dice Podcast, as well as Wayland Games et al & more and hope they will offer their signitures to the petition or else post a blog entry with the links. I have also composed a series of letters to GW and will be sending them in the next few days.

I am happy to report that Geoff Taylor (one of GW's most prolific and instrumental freelance artists and artist of the image below) has just signed the petition. I feel if we as a community pull together we may actually achieve something good for ourselves, GW and for the Warhammer/role playing communities in general.

Here's the new Wikipedia entry I've done for Warhammer Quest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Quest

I humply implore my fellow Dakka-ites to take a brief moment to back the Campaign and sign the petition regardless if you have played Quest or not:

http://www.petitiononline.com/warquest/petition.html
http://warhammerquestcampaign.blogspot.com/



For Sigmar!

UPDATE: Fantasy Flight do, indeed, not hold the rights to any miniature focused game. I emailed them and they kindly gave the following reply:

Richard:

Our license with GW is for board, card, and roleplaying games where miniatures are not the focus. While we do not comment on anything that we have not announced on the website, you will notice that, while we have done GW games such as Horus Heresy, Talisman, and Fury of Dracula, we have not done Space Hulk or Blood Bowl.

Best,

Jeremy Stomberg
Operations Associate
Fantasy Flight Games

UPDATE: Sent a message to GW's Chairman - Tom Kirby (he seems like a decent enough chap) & will hopefully hear something about GW's take on its Specialist Games soon. If I get anykind of answer I'll report back. Thanks

UPDATE: Beasts of War kindly covered my Quest Campaign on their Turn 8 Live show & the count is now above 100! Get in!

Still got this under my bed many years on, signed and hope to see other specialist games rereleased at a FAIR price and unlimted runs tbh.

I always thought Dark Future looked an interesting game and was sad I never got to play it.

Perhaps we need to also remind GW to keep the current specialist games alive, or to do the decent thing and hand over their production to Fantasy Flight or someone else for a license fee?

I would love to see Necromunda get the "Space Hulk" treatment. My wife would like to see Warhammer Quest.

I agree that more Specialist Games need to be championed. Not sure Warhammer Quest really needs the vocal support though; personally I would like to see Man O War and/or BFG get the 'Space Hulk' treatment. But then again, I always vote for Man O War since its one game I never really had much chance to play.

I think GW just doesn't have or want to devote the resources to give the specialist games the attention they deserve. it'd be great if they could hand off the games to other companies for a redo, like Fantasy Flight games.

Necros wrote:I think GW just doesn't have or want to devote the resources to give the specialist games the attention they deserve. it'd be great if they could hand off the games to other companies for a redo, like Fantasy Flight games.

IMO GW doesn't invest a great deal of energy into theses games as they don't see them as the "cash cows" 40K and WHFB are.
Games that can be played with a single (or limited) purchase don't seem to interest GW anymore.

Mad4Minis wrote:I would love to see Necromunda get the "Space Hulk" treatment.

Me too. Never played it but it looks a lot of fun.

IMO GW doesn't invest a great deal of energy into theses games as they don't see them as the "cash cows" 40K and WHFB are.
Games that can be played with a single (or limited) purchase don't seem to interest GW anymore.

I'm afraid you may well be right & can understand your realistic cynicism, but if we all demand them I feel this can change. I'm certain their employees would like to work on such games, if only the demand were there to enable them to have that opportunity.

lol @ another "petition GW and make a change" thread.


I will say that I would LOVE to see this work. The games I love from GW are all oop Specialist games. Epic 40,000 (yes, 3rd ed.), BFG, Necromunda, and Blood Bowl. Unfortunately, it won't.




Ghidorah

[salt] I was told by customer support that all the resources that had been used for those games were currently being used to catch up the armies in 40k and keep fantasy rolling along. [/salt]

I cut my teeth playing Hero Quest, and would love to see Warhammer Quest come back (but not at the same mental price as Space Hulk) However I doubt GW will, and they hold on to their IP like their back teeth so I can't see them ever farming out/licencing a remake to any one, sigh I'll sign of course but I am a cynic.

Necros wrote:I think GW just doesn't have or want to devote the resources to give the specialist games the attention they deserve. it'd be great if they could hand off the games to other companies for a redo, like Fantasy Flight games.

Supposedly the licensing deal that FFG has with GW does give them rights to all of the Specialist Games.

I'd love to see Advanced Space Crusade. Just the idea of SM Scouts boarding a Tyranid ship shouts desperate battle to me.

Bring back epic, but closer to 2nd ed, I want the big battles with full companies back. 3rd ed was too much like mini 40K. I want a combo of both.

How exactly could Necromunda or BFG get the Space hulk treatment? They're not board games with fixed pieces like SH is.

lord_blackfang wrote:How exactly could Necromunda or BFG get the Space hulk treatment? They're not board games with fixed pieces like SH is.

I think they were meaning that they want to see a box with everything to play the game.

Man O War would be awesome (again) - Miss that system

I'd like to see Necromunda again. I never had the chance to play it previously, and it would be a nice addition to the rotation of games played amongst my group.

As for the contents of the Necromunda box that receives the SH treatment, do you believe they should create a new set of detailed card or just use the Cities of Death plastic terrain? They'd get another use of the molds and could probably sell more CoD sets if people wanted to expand the terrain options. And they wouldn't have to spend resources for the design of new card terrain, though I imagine that would be a pretty insignificant cost in the grand scheme.

lol @ another "petition GW and make a change" thread.
I will say that I would LOVE to see this work. The games I love from GW are all oop Specialist games. Epic 40,000 (yes, 3rd ed.), BFG, Necromunda, and Blood Bowl. Unfortunately, it won't.

Does that mean you signed the petition?

Even if Fantasy Flight Games has the license (I get confused as GW held onto Space Hulk) that changes little for the campaign to get Quest re-made.

I'm not surprised by the negative thoughts many have and will continue to show either by comments such as this or their silence, even though I sympathise with them. I realise my efforts may seem naive at best, crazy and futile at worse - yet this doesn't stop me from trying, nor should it any one of you who reads or lurks over this thread...

...That's right - I'm talking to you Lurker-people! You who spend your time listening, yet are ever-silent, like some necrotic breeze or semi-sentient primordial wind waiting to be given shape or form. You who would sit idly by whilst the reality around you continues to change at a rate you cannot fathom, or to a result you cannot grasp

I just feel it would take a concerted, positive & co-ordinated effort in order to make anything like this work. To do nothing and say it won't work anyway is an easy option that will most certainly result in nothing. The dome of pure, concentrated-evil slime at the end of Ghostbusters II did not break due to anger & resentment, but was formed by it!

If you post or lurk on here you clearly have a level of desire and commitment to the hobby, if you believe Games Workshop should make more of an effort on its Specialist Games then take a single moment to sign the petition. If you would like to see these Specialist Games supported by GW, then take them to your local GW and start playing them on their games nights.

The fault for the unsupported nature of Specialist Games doesn't lie with just GW, but also with us as gamers and customers. If all newcomers only see us playing Warhammer and 40k, why would they show an interest in anything else? If you believe Specialist Games deserve better, then lead by example.

I am not doing this because I hate GW or dislike how corporate they have become. I am doing this because I LOVE the games they produce and have produced in the past & want to see those games either re-made or supported so future and current hobbyists alike have the chance to play these wonderful games.

I would like to believe the internet war-gaming community, such as the one here on Dakka, and in general, is capable of agreeing to something beyond itself & capable of uniting for something it believes it deserves, no matter how unlikely any one of us may feel it would achieve its goal - in this case it would be the simple recognition of a desired product.

I believe that it is my right as a loyal hobbyist and Warhammer fan to be heard & listened to. We support GW by buying their products, right? That means we pay their wages, material costs, distribution costs - everything. We as a community ARE Games Workshop. It's about time we realised this through positive thought & action. If we each bought a single share in the company next time we walked into our bank, then we would have a more (albeit small) legitimate & legal role to play - so why don't we instead of feeling constantly in the side lines, like some foul-smelling mime trying to gain social acceptance!

I am doing everything I can to spread the word to the far reaches of the internet and won't stop until I've posted on every Warhammer or RPG related forum, I will continue to message people across the internet until I'm the proverbial 'Blue in the Face' or until I get told to off. If some of you believe that GW isn't treating you right, then why not protest? Unleash your anger and disillusion, nerd-rage against the machine and make something happen instead of using sites like Dakka as your immortal agony aunt

At the end of the day GW is like any other company that supplies products. If you start asking them to stock a product and keep doing so - they will. I know they are going to be forever playing the game of Armies and Codex book catch up - yet that didn't stop them taking the time to release Space Hulk did it?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I always thought Dark Future looked an interesting game and was sad I never got to play it.

I had Dark Future.
As a turn-based Scalextric with guns, it was a great couple of hours per game.
Throw in campaign rules from WD, and it made for a summer break of Mad-Max gangs and Interceptors.
Not sure what I did with it. The bin probably :(

Skinnereal wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I always thought Dark Future looked an interesting game and was sad I never got to play it.

I had Dark Future.
As a turn-based Scalextric with guns, it was a great couple of hours per game.
Throw in campaign rules from WD, and it made for a summer break of Mad-Max gangs and Interceptors.
Not sure what I did with it. The bin probably :(

Remember seeing the adverts for it in WD of yore and thought it looked awesome. Very Mad Max - ish, dystopian stuff. Plus, there were excellent conversion opportunities with matchbox cars. WD used to run articles on converting your own cars (back when WD used to do stuff like that)

warspawned wrote: A whole bunch of stuff, and want's your love. ( Problem is that GW doesn't love you anymore...)

Basicly? Yes.

!@#$ GW. I don't care if they ever put out another game, I've pulled the plug on thier BS and won't give them another dime until someone there decides to stop the !@#$ing madness.

You protest with your $$$, and let them continue thier downward spiral.

As to the games in question? Those games are still out there. If you want them, go out there and hunt them down and pick yourself up a copy.

You want a reprint?... After what they did to Necromunda? No thanks.


!@$^ them and thier so called "Idea" of what they think we should have, by stomping it down our throats. They've demonstrated time and again that they are incompitent, don't give a gak, and thier continued disrespect for the fans is there to be seen.

Then to top that off, you are sitting there like an abuse victim, asking for another beating. No thanks, I'm off the ride. Too many games out there to stick with a sinking ship of thier own making.

I have enough of thier stuff to hold me over, either until I get through painting it, or just arbitrarily selling it all and getting into the countless other game systems out there that are 10X the product that GW had, and deserve my attention, support, and $$$.

At the end of the day, my petition will do better then sitting there begging like oliver for more price increases, inferior product, and the chance to spend more for less.


They cut thier own throats, let them die off and keep the game that gave you the fond memories. Being out of production means they can't mess with it, anymore.




!@#$ You, GW.

filbert wrote:

Skinnereal wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I always thought Dark Future looked an interesting game and was sad I never got to play it.

I had Dark Future.
As a turn-based Scalextric with guns, it was a great couple of hours per game.
Throw in campaign rules from WD, and it made for a summer break of Mad-Max gangs and Interceptors.
Not sure what I did with it. The bin probably :(

Remember seeing the adverts for it in WD of yore and thought it looked awesome. Very Mad Max - ish, dystopian stuff. Plus, there were excellent conversion opportunities with matchbox cars. WD used to run articles on converting your own cars (back when WD used to do stuff like that)

This is precisely what I did. Many hours spent trying to copy what they did in white dwarf and failing miserably when I found that I could't paint over the shiney paint jobs on the matchbox cars very well (whats primer?). Great days, soon got passed over for Necromunda.

I still have it in fact on the shelf with Space Marine and Adeptus Titanicus.

I would like to see Epic redone, the scope for the differant armies is vast now, but I fear that it would clash with Apocalypse too much.

BTW FFG didn't do Spacehulk as their licence does not extend to making miniatures only tokens or their games IIRC, so there is no hope of them getting any specialist games anytime soon.

lord_blackfang wrote:How exactly could Necromunda or BFG get the Space hulk treatment? They're not board games with fixed pieces like SH is.

Basically a new version of the starter set with new and better minis, terrain, books, etc...essentially everything they did to Space Hulk.


If GW isnt interested in doing it I see no problem with FFG taking up the project. Necromunda would be the easiest of them as there were only 10 gangs total, with the original game having only 6 before the expansions. FFG could produce new plastic gang boxes pretty easy.

BFG and MoW would be best left to just a new box set, as trying to redo the entire game and all the fleets would be extremely ambitious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scott wrote:I'd like to see Necromunda again. I never had the chance to play it previously, and it would be a nice addition to the rotation of games played amongst my group.

I would say Necromunda was easily GWs best and most popular "specialist" game. The only thing that limited it in GWs eyes was you only needed a limited number of minis to play. Once you sold a person a starter set, a gang box, and a few blisters to flesh out the gang, the customer was likely done. Some had multiple gangs, but not all. Each customer was in for maybe $200. In GWs mind if they cant milk you for several thousand $$ then its not worth it. FFG on the other hand, being a board game company, doesnt think a game that pulls a couple hundred $$ per customer is a bad thing.

M4M - I think Epic was GWs "3rd" system before LotRs came along, but I agree Necro was the best.

I think that they are really missing out on a massive opportunity here as the way that they have developed their kits, it is no longer a case of just having the 10 gangs to choose since they can also do big/good terrain sets as well.

So there could be a hive basic set (the bulkheads that there is already), plus further sets for shanties or even particular buildings up or down hive (basically the settlement/turf options you can have).

Thus the game would move past the bit that GW don't like (you only buy 10-20 gangers), and turns onto collecting the terrain sets in place of more units (customise your territory so to speak!). Which if they were good enough I'm sure peeps would keep coming back for. Bonus being that 40K players would get it to (especially if it was CoD compatible).

I think it would work, but then I'm no Tom Kirby.

Grot 6 wrote:

warspawned wrote: A whole bunch of stuff, and want's your love. ( Problem is that GW doesn't love you anymore...)

Basicly? Yes.

!@#$ GW. I don't care if they ever put out another game, I've pulled the plug on thier BS and won't give them another dime until someone there decides to stop the !@#$ing madness.

You protest with your $$$, and let them continue thier downward spiral.

As to the games in question? Those games are still out there. If you want them, go out there and hunt them down and pick yourself up a copy.

You want a reprint?... After what they did to Necromunda? No thanks.


!@$^ them and thier so called "Idea" of what they think we should have, by stomping it down our throats. They've demonstrated time and again that they are incompitent, don't give a gak, and thier continued disrespect for the fans is there to be seen.

Then to top that off, you are sitting there like an abuse victim, asking for another beating. No thanks, I'm off the ride. Too many games out there to stick with a sinking ship of thier own making.

I have enough of thier stuff to hold me over, either until I get through painting it, or just arbitrarily selling it all and getting into the countless other game systems out there that are 10X the product that GW had, and deserve my attention, support, and $$$.

At the end of the day, my petition will do better then sitting there begging like oliver for more price increases, inferior product, and the chance to spend more for less.


They cut thier own throats, let them die off and keep the game that gave you the fond memories. Being out of production means they can't mess with it, anymore.




!@#$ You, GW.

Wow, bad day at the office? putting aside the negativity (don't get me wrong I agree GW are mental and really are there to hit us all in the face) that made me laugh so much I cried. Thanks dude for making me smile, if nothing else this petition idea has produced the above which really did make my day.

I would like to play epic 40k. That is all.

I would really like to see them "hulk" Necromunda. A great set of rules that I recently had a chance to try again and really enjoyed.

I've still got the box set, Outlanders, and my half painted Van Saar.

I'm watching this thread, and I really need to ask. What's actually stopping you people from playing Epic, Necromunda or BFG if you love them so much? It's not like GW doesn't sell the models. It's not like the rules aren't freakin' free to download. So what's the problem?

I can understand wanting Warhammer Quest since it's a board game and needs a board. Everything else is playable with the resources GW and/or the fan community provides as long as you don't need to be spoon-fed.

I played 6 games of Necromunda this Saturday using only materials currently in production. Just saying.