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Heyy guys, this is my attempt at a 1500pt competitive and fluffy Thousand Sons list. As always, C&C are welcomed!

HQ - 165pts.

1. Chaos Sorcerer
w/ Mark of Tzeentch,Doombolt, Bolt of Change

Elites - 105pts.

2. Chaos Dreadnought
w/Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher

Troops - 927pts.

3. Thousand Sons (8 Rubric Marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer)
w/ Bolt of Change, Rhino; Dozer Blade

4. Thousand Sons (8 Rubric Marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer)
w/ Bolt of Change, Rhino; Dozer Blade

5.Thousand Sons (8 Rubric Marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer)
w/ Bolt of Change, Rhino; Dozer Blade

Heavy Support - 300pts.

6. Chaos Predator
w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons

7. Chaos Predator
w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons

8. Chaos Predator
w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Total = 1497pts.

Again, any C&Cs are appreciated!

MA.

I like this list a lot, its quite fluffy, has both anti-horde and anti-meq for an allround list, and enough mech targets to keep the opponents anti-tank split firing.

You may find that other mech lists and higher av tanks will be hard to crack, but you do have a lot of bolt of change.

One thing you could do is add Combi Meltas to your rhinos for more anti-tank power, but you would have to get rid of something, like one of your psychic powers on the lord.

Thanks Slanderbot, that was my goal, to create enough target saturation to get my Rubrics into position but also to handle hordes, mech and high toughness effectively.

I am worried about how this would fare against a hard-hitting alpha-stirke like DE. And I think many opponents would realise that the key to beating this list is essentially taking out my Rubric's rhinos.

Overall though I think it could perform well!

Thanks,

MA.

No other Comments?

Nice list, fluffy. Decent amount of troops and tanks.
Only problem you could come across, is you can't kill AV14 very easily. Glancing of a 6 with your Bolts, and MB on the sorcerer. You can't kill Monoliths if you ever face them...

Like you said DE could be very hard to face, as will Mech Eldar (fast armies). What range is Bolt? I have a feeling its only 18" which isn't very long range. But the only way you could really change that is replacing Preds with Obliterators, but you only get 4, and that takes away nearly half your armour...
I think keep it as it is, its a nice list.

Very well rounded list, with a lot of warm bodies - its nice to see a marine army with a high model count!

It would be great if there were a way around giving up a round of bolter fire to use the bolt of change against a vehicle, but I suppose it is a necessary evil.

My only really reccomendation would be to drop a predator for some obliterators to give you a little more flexibility, but that starts to comprimise your theme, which has been nicely executed. Although I have seen some really nice obliterators given a thousand sons feel by adding tomb king bitz.

Its a solid all around list, not much else to say really!

I'd take just 1 or 2 TS units and 2 CSM units w/ IoT.
Give the CSM units meltas for anti-tank.
Then the list will be a bit more balanced as it lacks anti-heavy-armour.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take just 1 or 2 TS units and 2 CSM units w/ IoT.
Give the CSM units meltas for anti-tank.
Then the list will be a bit more balanced as it lacks anti-heavy-armour.

I may consider this, my only worry (which isn't exactly important) is that according to fluff all "Normal" Thousand Sons marines became Rubrics?

You have to figure that in all this time they have had some time to get some roadies for the band.

The regular CSM would be newer additions converted via sorcery, trickery, until they were loyal and for the cause of the sorcerer leading this tzeenth band.

However : If you already have 32 rubrics and arnt playing in major competitive events, I'd just leave it with the rubrics, for the sake of coolness.

Another way to keep the theme and up the anti tank would be to switch one of the rubric squads for 2 chosen squad with meltas. For only 9 points more than one tson squad(281) in rhino you can get 2 chosen squads with 2 melta each and rhinos(145 each = 290). That would increase anti tankt and target saturation both at the same time.

You may have a small math problem though: I pointed the Tson squads at 281(or 304 if its 9 total) each the way you have them, which is 1124 for 4 squads. Looks like youforgot the rhino cost maybe? The cost for the four squads without rhinos is just over your tally of 976.

So a 1500 list might be sorc, 3 tsons, 2 chosen, 3 preds(and leaves about 82 points to spare)

Either way, good luck, and kudos for going the less travled path!

Mephistoles1 wrote:You have to figure that in all this time they have had some time to get some roadies for the band.

The regular CSM would be newer additions converted via sorcery, trickery, until they were loyal and for the cause of the sorcerer leading this tzeenth band.

However : If you already have 32 rubrics and arnt playing in major competitive events, I'd just leave it with the rubrics, for the sake of coolness.

Another way to keep the theme and up the anti tank would be to switch one of the rubric squads for 2 chosen squad with meltas. For only 9 points more than one tson squad(281) in rhino you can get 2 chosen squads with 2 melta each and rhinos(145 each = 290). That would increase anti tankt and target saturation both at the same time.

You may have a small math problem though: I pointed the Tson squads at 281(or 304 if its 9 total) each the way you have them, which is 1124 for 4 squads. Looks like youforgot the rhino cost maybe? The cost for the four squads without rhinos is just over your tally of 976.

So a 1500 list might be sorc, 3 tsons, 2 chosen, 3 preds(and leaves about 82 points to spare)

Either way, good luck, and kudos for going the less travled path!

I guess you're right with the CSM/Chosen could always just blame Tzeentch...

And regarding the math... you're right. I'm off. Because of the Aspiring Sorcerer being an additional 60pts. Which I missed. Thanks, I'll revamp.

List has been Re-done with correct points cost and a few additions and reductions!

MA.

If you drop the dread and the sorc, could you add two winged princes with Bolt? It would be a big help in the anti tank department.

I am thinking some rubric termicide squads would answer some of your anti-tank shortage. Say 3 termies with combi-melta and 1 chainfist pulling 2+/4++ saves. Just a thought but perhaps winds of chaos instead of bolt of change on the sorcerers this covers for the probably weakest aspect of a tzeentch list- poopy CC. I would definitely dump the dread as the weakest link in the army but that is okay.

DAaddict wrote:I am thinking some rubric termicide squads would answer some of your anti-tank shortage. Say 3 termies with combi-melta and 1 chainfist pulling 2+/4++ saves. Just a thought but perhaps winds of chaos instead of bolt of change on the sorcerers this covers for the probably weakest aspect of a tzeentch list- poopy CC. I would definitely dump the dread as the weakest link in the army but that is okay.

I agree with the termicide units. Chain Fists are not even necessary (although I like them).

I disagree with wind. Your goal should be to stay out of that close range as much as possible. So why would you give a 60pt sorc. a template weapon? T Sons are all around weak. Exploiting the strongest of the weak characteristics is the goal.

Deuce11 wrote:

DAaddict wrote:I am thinking some rubric termicide squads would answer some of your anti-tank shortage. Say 3 termies with combi-melta and 1 chainfist pulling 2+/4++ saves. Just a thought but perhaps winds of chaos instead of bolt of change on the sorcerers this covers for the probably weakest aspect of a tzeentch list- poopy CC. I would definitely dump the dread as the weakest link in the army but that is okay.

I agree with the termicide units. Chain Fists are not even necessary (although I like them).

I disagree with wind. Your goal should be to stay out of that close range as much as possible. So why would you give a 60pt sorc. a template weapon? T Sons are all around weak. Exploiting the strongest of the weak characteristics is the goal.

I agree with winds being weaker but as I recall it is somewhat cheaper. I am suggesting that give me 2 or 3 termicide units before I take a dreadnought and 3 or 4 bolts wielding sorcerers and aspiring sorcerers. The template weapons - especially when teamed up - give you some much needed hoard control. 2 or 3 units of rubric marines are not going to knock the winds out of the sails of ork hordes or bug hoards like a template weapon fired out of a rhino can do. Your marines however are going to dominate any power armored marine because of your doom bolts whether you have a bolt of change or a winds of chaos(or whatever) sorcerer in the unit.

Deuce11 wrote:If you drop the dread and the sorc, could you add two winged princes with Bolt? It would be a big help in the anti tank department.

While this sounds quite good to me, there is a few methods for my madness:

1. The Dread provides me with some anti-horde/light armour. I just have to keep him away from my rhinos!

2. I don't plan to be taking high armour (13+) front on, I'd try to line up side or rear shots with the speed of my rhinos from Bolt of Change.

3. The main reason these guys are in is for the fluff reasons....and that I hate DP's!

DAaddict wrote: I agree with winds being weaker but as I recall it is somewhat cheaper. I am suggesting that give me 2 or 3 termicide units before I take a dreadnought and 3 or 4 bolts wielding sorcerers and aspiring sorcerers. The template weapons - especially when teamed up - give you some much needed hoard control.

I think my predators will give me enough anti-horde when coupled with my dread and bolters.

Thanks,

MA.

[quote=MaliceAngel

DAaddict wrote: I agree with winds being weaker but as I recall it is somewhat cheaper. I am suggesting that give me 2 or 3 termicide units before I take a dreadnought and 3 or 4 bolts wielding sorcerers and aspiring sorcerers. The template weapons - especially when teamed up - give you some much needed hoard control.

I think my predators will give me enough anti-horde when coupled with my dread and bolters.

Thanks,

MA.

DAaddict wrote:

Just thinking you are going to find yourself short of anti-armor and suggesting that 3 termicide unit might fit the bill. The bolt is fluffier but if push comes to shove I would take 2 termicide units over

1. the dreadnought
2. the bolts
3. perhaps 1 of the 3 preds.

I think you have a fun list but as it is foreign to me - (I do a dedicated Emp Children army and berzerkers and nurgle are obvious) you need to playtest it and see where your weaknesses are. Perhaps the dread and the 4 bolts will be enough AT backed up by the predator autocannons.

Well I'm going to play test it on friday, we'll see if it works out!

MA.

Here is the problems with Dreads... roll a 1 turn 1-3 and your unloading every shooty weapon you have on a friendly target... twice. Sure, you can be tricksy foxsy and just fire frag missiles, but the plasma cannon is going to get side or rear shots on all of your stuff... or your Sorc. Your missing any close combat, so the bloodrage is even wasted.

To be honest, I think you would be better off with Las-cannon sponsons on those Predators... or at least two. Expensive, yes... but you need the Anti Tank more than Anti Hoard.

For the hatred of all that is evil and unholy, ditch those dozer blades! Replace them with a combi melta or use the points for those las cannons. Though I am unsure on what your doing with this list... if your just sitting back or charging forward with the Rhinos.

That is a bad thing about a chaos Rhino... one fire point. You have all of these expensive marines... would be nice if they can actually fire those nifty bolters and use those saves.

I will also point out that a Demon Prince is the same cost as your Sorc, since a DP's MoT is 20pts and for the Sorc it is 30pts. Oh nos! You lose grenades and a bolt pistol! I suggest you seriously consider it. And Wings... he needs wings since they were crazy and made the mount of Tzeentch do the same thing but cost more (stupid Gav strikes again!).

Good luck!

This is said as a CSM player that has been fully hosed by my own dread, you may want to go multimelta and missle on the dread then just keep it >24" from the nearest rhino. That way you get a bad roll and all that hits your rhino is a couple frags and it will give you some heavy short range anti vehicle.

BlkTom wrote:Here is the problems with Dreads... roll a 1 turn 1-3 and your unloading every shooty weapon you have on a friendly target... twice. Sure, you can be tricksy foxsy and just fire frag missiles, but the plasma cannon is going to get side or rear shots on all of your stuff... or your Sorc. Your missing any close combat, so the bloodrage is even wasted.

To be honest, I think you would be better off with Las-cannon sponsons on those Predators... or at least two. Expensive, yes... but you need the Anti Tank more than Anti Hoard.

For the hatred of all that is evil and unholy, ditch those dozer blades! Replace them with a combi melta or use the points for those las cannons. Though I am unsure on what your doing with this list... if your just sitting back or charging forward with the Rhinos.

That is a bad thing about a chaos Rhino... one fire point. You have all of these expensive marines... would be nice if they can actually fire those nifty bolters and use those saves.

I will also point out that a Demon Prince is the same cost as your Sorc, since a DP's MoT is 20pts and for the Sorc it is 30pts. Oh nos! You lose grenades and a bolt pistol! I suggest you seriously consider it. And Wings... he needs wings since they were crazy and made the mount of Tzeentch do the same thing but cost more (stupid Gav strikes again!).

Good luck!

Fire Frenzy only works on the roll of a 1, 2-5 is a "Sane" result and a 6 is the blood rage thingy. Also, the sorc will be joined to one of the Thousand Sons squad

Even though they only have 1 fire point, the codex says that 2 models may fire out of it.

And Daemon Princes are really only good in pairs, one on its own is just asking to be shot to pieces.

MudgeBlack wrote: This is said as a CSM player that has been fully hosed by my own dread, you may want to go multimelta and missle on the dread then just keep it >24" from the nearest rhino. That way you get a bad roll and all that hits your rhino is a couple frags and it will give you some heavy short range anti vehicle.

I do plan to keep my Dread away from my rhinos, like, other side of the deployment far away!

Thanks,

MA.

MaliceAngel wrote: I do plan to keep my Dread away from my rhinos, like, other side of the deployment far away!

So it can be picked apart and then that area is a free flank?

The dread brings you nothing. It's not even a "fluff required" choice. So why burden yourself with it? Only CC CSM dreads make any competitive sense.

Deuce11 wrote:
So it can be picked apart and then that area is a free flank?

The dread brings you nothing. It's not even a "fluff required" choice. So why burden yourself with it? Only CC CSM dreads make any competitive sense.

It's a personal thing really; I just like dreads.

Also, the chance of me "Fire Frenzy"-ing or "Blood Rage"-ing is relatively slim so I don't believe that it will be too much of a problem.

Finally, I don't plan to leave him un-supported, 2 of the Preds will be there with him to draw anti-tank fire from the rhinos.

Thanks,

MA.

Step 1 buy the new GK codex

Step 2 run counts as GK

Step 3 profit

Seriously this list is bad in all sorts of ways. You have poor anti-tank, poor mobility, poor anti-horde and at best mediocre anti-meq (really if you think your opponent will just leave his marines out in the open rather than taking a 4+ cover save then there's nothing special about you winning against someone who is bad at the game.)

And if you really want to moan about counts as then I'd like to see a codex that more accurately represents what really SHOULD be the 1k sons. I mean really they can't even get a hood and who thinks that the chaos legion with the greatest master of the warp wouldn't be able to stop any of the psychic powers from an opposing army. Run your current squads as GK strike squads with a psycannon and psybolt ammo and you go from sucking terribly in CC to people not wanting to charge you as much, and costing more than 200 points less.

Running fluffy armies using chaos rules is a lot more difficult when other armies' rules represent actual fluff better than the current chaos codex.

Just don't be under any illusions that your list is competitive in any way.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Step 1 buy the new GK codex

Step 2 run counts as GK

Step 3 profit

Seriously this list is bad in all sorts of ways. You have poor anti-tank, poor mobility, poor anti-horde and at best mediocre anti-meq (really if you think your opponent will just leave his marines out in the open rather than taking a 4+ cover save then there's nothing special about you winning against someone who is bad at the game.)

And if you really want to moan about counts as then I'd like to see a codex that more accurately represents what really SHOULD be the 1k sons. I mean really they can't even get a hood and who thinks that the chaos legion with the greatest master of the warp wouldn't be able to stop any of the psychic powers from an opposing army. Run your current squads as GK strike squads with a psycannon and psybolt ammo and you go from sucking terribly in CC to people not wanting to charge you as much, and costing more than 200 points less.

Running fluffy armies using chaos rules is a lot more difficult when other armies' rules represent actual fluff better than the current chaos codex.

Just don't be under any illusions that your list is competitive in any way.

I have ben trying to do this however the HQ slots make running fluffy "thousand sons" builds a difficult task. Definitely the way to go however.

A librarian doesn't work as a sorcerer of Tzeench?

MrDrumMachine wrote:Step 1 buy the new GK codex

Step 2 run counts as GK

Step 3 profit

Seriously this list is bad in all sorts of ways. You have poor anti-tank, poor mobility, poor anti-horde and at best mediocre anti-meq (really if you think your opponent will just leave his marines out in the open rather than taking a 4+ cover save then there's nothing special about you winning against someone who is bad at the game.)

And if you really want to moan about counts as then I'd like to see a codex that more accurately represents what really SHOULD be the 1k sons. I mean really they can't even get a hood and who thinks that the chaos legion with the greatest master of the warp wouldn't be able to stop any of the psychic powers from an opposing army. Run your current squads as GK strike squads with a psycannon and psybolt ammo and you go from sucking terribly in CC to people not wanting to charge you as much, and costing more than 200 points less.

Running fluffy armies using chaos rules is a lot more difficult when other armies' rules represent actual fluff better than the current chaos codex.

Just don't be under any illusions that your list is competitive in any way.

Well....where to begin....

First of all, I actually own Grey Knights, a 1500pts. Purifier spam.

Second, if you think I'm silly enough to shoot at marines - or anything for that matter- who have a 4+ cover with AP3 bolters then you are the one who's silly. Also, since when are rhinos poor mobility?

Regarding Grey Knights more accurately representing Thousand Sons.... just no. The brotherhood of psykers, and powerful psychic powers I get but how do you explain the HUNTING DAEMONS 'CUZ THEY'S EVIL part?

Especially when the other armies fluff isn't actually representing your army, it's representing their own.

Oh I'm not, I know the current power-lists and quite honestly, I'm sick of them. Very few people can make a fluffy army competitive, I intended to be one of those few.

Thanks (I guess.)

MA.

3 rhino's doesn't make an army mobile. It makes it easy to dismount and laugh as you slowly and purposefully walk to whatever objective. It's worse when any decent mech IG/space wolf/GK army will do it turn 1 in your deployment zone. If you want a competitive army it has to stack up to the other ones out there.

As far as shooting is concerned what do you do if your opponent is on an objective? What's the point of paying for AP3 bolters if you never plan on using them? What do you do when you run into terminators? What answers do you have for mech IG? OOOOH 4 missiles and 3 autocannons, vs 4-6 chimeras, a couple vendettas and a pair of manticores? Or against even your own purifier list, 4 rhinos/razorbacks, 2-3 psyifleman dreads and 8-12 psycannons you think this list could stand up? Even my 1500 tau list would laugh this army off the table it's shooting is so bad.

You want to justify the daemon thing? Fine, how about because of their millennia of experience within the warp they've developed ways to deal with daemons that become unruly? If that doesn't work for you then just ignore it? One rule that doesn't make sense vs a chaos book with no rules that make any sense ? You're taking one of the most overcosted worthless troops in the game x3 and pretending that and some mediocre fire support makes a competitive army is laughable.

Besides the only thing "fluffy" about your list is the inclusion of a sorc and some 1k sons. How a dread and some predators = 1k sons doesn't make much sense. At least with GK you get psychic dreads, psychic vehicles and the ability to field an army that can bring the tools needed to actually be competitive.

The alternative would be to wait until Chaos has an actual competitive codex or they bring actual legions back.

MrDrumMachine wrote:3 rhino's doesn't make an army mobile. It makes it easy to dismount and laugh as you slowly and purposefully walk to whatever objective. It's worse when any decent mech IG/space wolf/GK army will do it turn 1 in your deployment zone. If you want a competitive army it has to stack up to the other ones out there.

As far as shooting is concerned what do you do if your opponent is on an objective? What's the point of paying for AP3 bolters if you never plan on using them? What do you do when you run into terminators? What answers do you have for mech IG? OOOOH 4 missiles and 3 autocannons, vs 4-6 chimeras, a couple vendettas and a pair of manticores? Or against even your own purifier list, 4 rhinos/razorbacks, 2-3 psyifleman dreads and 8-12 psycannons you think this list could stand up? Even my 1500 tau list would laugh this army off the table it's shooting is so bad.

You want to justify the daemon thing? Fine, how about because of their millennia of experience within the warp they've developed ways to deal with daemons that become unruly? If that doesn't work for you then just ignore it? One rule that doesn't make sense vs a chaos book with no rules that make any sense ? You're taking one of the most overcosted worthless troops in the game x3 and pretending that and some mediocre fire support makes a competitive army is laughable.

Besides the only thing "fluffy" about your list is the inclusion of a sorc and some 1k sons. How a dread and some predators = 1k sons doesn't make much sense. At least with GK you get psychic dreads, psychic vehicles and the ability to field an army that can bring the tools needed to actually be competitive.

The alternative would be to wait until Chaos has an actual competitive codex or they bring actual legions back.

An all-vehicle army is a mobile one, regardless of size. And why would I walk to an objective if I could help it? surely I'd park the rhino next to it and then dismount?

If my opponent is on an objective I'll obviously shoot at them - depending on the stage of the game I may just drive up and contest. Terminators are evil... I'd block them off with one of the vehicles (prefferibly a rhino) to give my Thousand Sons time to drive into position and Rapid-fire them to death. Mech IG is non-existent in my meta. Again, Grey Knights = non existent (barring me.) however, I'd do my best to disable the rhinos which hold the purifiers to get them out on foot.

So now the Thousand Sons wish to purge all daemons from the Imperium because they're "unruly"?....

And I think you'll find that I didn't state that this was competitive, there's a question mark after "competitive and fluffy" implying that I didn't know the answer to that.

Simple, Every legion have dreads which date back to the Horus Heresy. And the same goes for their preds.

GK psychic dreads extend to Fortitude. That's it. No offensive or support powers. Just Fortitude. (Which in itself isn't too shabby.)

Overall I believe I could make this work. I may be wrong, I may be right. I'll find out in 2 days regardless.

MA.

More power to you brother! I too love the Thousand Sons and play them in spite of their short comings (codex wise). I friend and I have a Prospero rematch coming up some time soon. Good luck with the game and with the sanity rolls (so far my lowest total of 1's for sanity rolls in a game is 3 turns.....go figure).