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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 08:26:45
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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So rather than hijack one of the other myriad threads, I thought I would start my own (but as an aside, maybe it would be worth getting a sticky made; a sort of 'New to Warmachine FAQs' thing). Anyway, like many others, recent GW buggery has stopped me from buying from them and as part of my self-imposed boycott, I have decided to start inquiring about alternatives. I have ordered a copy of the rule book off Maelstrom (hey I'm serious about stopping playing GW!)
http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-wmc&sou=cat
I notice there are several rulebooks. Obviously, there is the hard/soft back (I assume that is the only difference) but what is the Wrath thing? Is that an expansion, similar to Apoc? Also, am I right in saying there are books for each faction too, similar to codexes?
Basically, what I want to know is, what rulebooks do I need as a first look. I am going to have a flick through the rules and get a feel of the background before plumping for a faction(s). Do I just need this main book that I have ordered?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 09:17:17
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Storm Lance
Poznan, Poland.
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"Prime Mk.II" is the main rulebook for Warmachine. "Primal Mk.II" is the same for Hordes. One of those is rather necessary.
"Forces of..." are the books containing all the previous incarnation of the system models/units updated to Mk.II for a given faction plus some additions (themed lists and an additional model) - not 100% necessary. Buy one if you like the fluff and want to have all stats & rules for your faction at hand.
Mk. II 2010 decks - new stat cards for all the Mk. I models/units for a given faction.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/19 09:18:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 09:18:15
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Umber Guard
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The core rulebook is either Prime MKII (Warmachine) or Primal MKII (Hordes).
Stuff like Wrath (the first MKII expansion) is the way PP expands the armies and continues the story. Those expansions introduce new Units, Warcasters, ´Jacks and so on.
The faction books are in the same vein a collection of the minis up to the point of release of that book.
Due to the fact, that every purchase is accompanied by the card with the rules neither book is necessary per se. They are nice to take a look at the rules in order to decide what to buy next, and they have quite awesome background stories and painting tips.
The main rulebook has a number of units, casters and so on for each faction (Retribution of Scyrrah is not included in Prime, though) and gives a summary of the background for the factions, so in the end that book is pretty much all you need in the beginning.
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Pledge 2011:
Bought - 81
Build/Converted - 121/1
Painted - 26 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 09:20:52
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Storm Lance
Poznan, Poland.
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Vimes wrote:Stuff like Wrath (the first MKII expansion) is the way PP expands the armies and continues the story. Those expansions introduce new Units, Warcasters, ´Jacks and so on.
Just to make it 100% precise - that expansion covers new stuff for ALL factions form a given system (Warmachine in that case) at once.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 12:27:06
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Infiltrating Broodlord
The Faye
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One nice thing about hordes and Warmachine is that they do not need an army book. Anything you buy will (or at least should) have a stat card with the rules for that model. So all you need is the Prime/Primal MK2 rulebook. There are other books but they're out of date. The army specific books have some nice fluff and also give you the tiered list (restricts what you take in the army in return for bonuses like cost reductions or advanced movements and so on) Just buy the Prime/Primal book and some models and you'll be ok to play. The basic rules are simple really, you just roll two dice, add the related stat, then if you beat the enemies stat it succeeds.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/19 12:28:38
We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.
Chaos Knights: 2000 PTS
Thousand Sons: 2000 PTS - In Progress
Tyranids: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Mechanicus: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Custodes: 2000 PTS - In Progress |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 13:47:55
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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So I have heard it said that Warmachine/Hordes are the same game? Again, apologies for the noobery but is this the case? And if so, why the difference in name? Are they flip sides to the same coin or something?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 14:09:10
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Commoragh-bound Peer
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filbert wrote:So I have heard it said that Warmachine/Hordes are the same game? Again, apologies for the noobery but is this the case? And if so, why the difference in name? Are they flip sides to the same coin or something?
As far as i can tell their like two sides of a coin just with a mechanic twist for each side. Warmachine has their warcasters have a set amount of focus points to spend on spells that "recharge" at the beginning of each turn. Hordes have warlock casters who generate their focus to spend (although i think its named differently) by performing actions or having their beasts perform actions rather than just being given the focus at the start of a turn. Draw backs to both, warcasters balance around the fact the can only have so much power, warlocks balance around the fact the can only generate so much.
That's the gist i got from reading around anyhow, you can download the quick start rules from the PP website though to get a better idea.
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500pts - Actually painted.... not so much |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 14:10:13
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Wicked Warp Spider
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filbert wrote:So I have heard it said that Warmachine/Hordes are the same game? Again, apologies for the noobery but is this the case? And if so, why the difference in name? Are they flip sides to the same coin or something?
They both share the same core rules the only major difference is the fury/focus mechanic. Focus you get a set amount each turn, fury is generated by your beasts. Both systems are meant to be played with/against each other.
From a fluff standpoint Warmachine has the "civilized" nations while Hordes is the "barbaric" races of the world.
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"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sence, we couldn't react to a lot of life." - Calvin and Hobbes
DukeRustfield - There's nothing wrong with beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure they are the most important members of the food group. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 14:25:06
Subject: Re:Another Warmachine beginner
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Flameguard
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They are 100% compatible with each other. All of the combat rules for the two games are absolutely identical. The difference lies in their magic management mechanics. I'll try to explain the differences as best I can.
The biggest mechanical difference is how the army leaders (warcasters: WM; warlocks: Hordes) generate and manage their "magic points" (focus: WM; fury: Hordes).
In Warmachine, at the beginning of the game your warcaster starts with focus points equal to his focus stat. Then he allocates those point to his jacks (which they use to do power attacks or add dice to their attack and damage rolls), spends them on spells, uses them as an adder to his armor stat, and maybe a few other things. Then at the beginning of your next turn his focus refreshes and he begins again with focus points equal to his focus stat.
In Hordes the warlock begins the game with fury points equal to his fury stat. He spends them on spells, on animii (essentially they are spells that come native with a warbeast), and he can also use it to redirect damage he has taken to a warbeast in his battlegroup. Notice he does not allocate fury to warbeasts (like the warcaster in Warmachine does) and he does not refresh fury at the beginning of his turn. Instead what happens is when a warbeast makes a power attack, boosts attack/damage rolls, casts his own animus, etc. that beast will generate a fury point. At the beginning of the turn the warlock can leach the fury off his warbeasts until he again has fury points equal to his fury stat. Any beasts that have any fury remaining on them must make a check, failing this check causes them to frenzy. Also, a warlock may reave the fury off of one of his warbeasts as it's being destroyed.
I know without context that might not mean much, but I hope it helps.
The question about the differences between WM and Hordes comes up very often. Maybe this, or another, better explanation could get stickied?
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Points Painted
Legion: Locks 0
Menoth:33; Casters: 2
Retribution:27; Casters 2
Trollbloods:21; Locks: 2
Mercs/Minions: 2
Slow painter...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 17:52:59
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Wraith
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Warmachine's focus is based on resource management. You have a fixed allocation of focus and how well you use it by allocating to your jacks, casting spells, and boosting determine how well you will do. You will always get your full focus stat in 95% of cases (feats, effects, and whatnot withstanding).
Hordes fury mechanic is based on risk management. You create fury on your beasts to run, attack, boost damage, use animus, etc. up to their fury stat. The warlock then has to leech that fury off them to be able to boost, cast spells, etc. If the beast has fury left on them after leeching, they have to test to see if they frenzy. Leaving fury on a beast even if it passes will limit what it can do in that following turn since it has less fury available to generate.
The other side of this mechanic is the weakness that Hordes has is they DO NOT want to do attrition battles. Attrition costs them the ability to generate fury since as they lose warbeasts, they lose the ability to generate fury that does not injure the warlock. Warmachine does not have this downside since the power comes from the warcaster and loss of a warjack simply means they can't use it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/19 22:03:32
Subject: Re:Another Warmachine beginner
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Hacking Interventor
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As a Warmachine player, an analogy for the difference between focus and fury.....
Warmachine, you pay cash up front (focus) for your specials, when you are out thats usually it.
Hordes, they use credit cards, spend now then (possibly) pay for it later, but you can spend as you need it rather than pre allocation.
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Dennis
Damnant quod non intelegunt
"Sometimes at the most basic level, to be alive you must stop other people being alive. This is what we do. We are extremely good at it"
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
-from Prospero Burns
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/20 04:59:59
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Paingiver
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What the difference between the mechanics means on the gaming table is that warcaster for Warmachine usually has between 6 and 10 focus to spend each turn. Warlock from Hordes can easily have up to 20 fury to spend on one turn. Warcaster has no consequences of his focus spending on the next turn, but the warlock has to make the fury disappear from the warbeasts or he will loose control of them for the next turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/28 21:46:36
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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Bit of a bump for which I apologise but more questions:
I bought a battlegroup on a whim (I picked it up and it felt heavier than the others) and I wondered if it is any good as the beginnings of an army in its own right - Magnus the Traitor mercs.
Do people tend to run Merc armies? Or more of an adjunct to a faction?
I am also planning on gathering some Cryx as an opposing force - is it worth getting the faction card decks given that the minis come with the relevant cards anyway? Or am I better off getting the faction books? Or both?
Ta muchly,
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/28 22:46:34
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Bane Lord Tartar Sauce
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filbert wrote:Bit of a bump for which I apologise but more questions:
I bought a battlegroup on a whim (I picked it up and it felt heavier than the others) and I wondered if it is any good as the beginnings of an army in its own right - Magnus the Traitor mercs.
Do people tend to run Merc armies? Or more of an adjunct to a faction?
I am also planning on gathering some Cryx as an opposing force - is it worth getting the faction card decks given that the minis come with the relevant cards anyway? Or am I better off getting the faction books? Or both?
Ta muchly,
The reason it felt heavier is that it is all metal whereas the current battlegroups for the main factions are plastic (with some metal ones remaining in back rooms probably). Yep, you can use an army of mercs though it is seen as less competitive than the main factions and you may see people talk about a "merc tax" (a merc unit will cost more points than a faction unit that does the same job, or so the theory goes).
Personally I find merc armies competitive to play against and with.
As for the faction decks, I wouldn't bother. If you get a MkI card just email eumissingparts@privateerpress.com and say that you bought something with the old card inside, they'll send you the MkII version (will look like this). Faction decks only contain cards for the stuff that was released before MkII. So to look before you buy the best way is a "forces of ..." book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/29 04:43:12
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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filbert wrote:Bit of a bump for which I apologise but more questions:
I bought a battlegroup on a whim (I picked it up and it felt heavier than the others) and I wondered if it is any good as the beginnings of an army in its own right - Magnus the Traitor mercs.
Do people tend to run Merc armies? Or more of an adjunct to a faction?
I am also planning on gathering some Cryx as an opposing force - is it worth getting the faction card decks given that the minis come with the relevant cards anyway? Or am I better off getting the faction books? Or both?
Ta muchly,
Magnus is in the top 3 of Merc casters but he is not a top tier 'tournament' caster. I see people win with him in casual play but I rarely see him at the top table at tournaments.
So, it really depends on your play style. If you are very competitive and want to win tournaments then he isn't your 'go to' caster. If you refuse to follow the herd then he is a great caster.
If you always buy 'new' models then you don't need the faction deck as everything you buy will come with cards. I find the books to be a good value as they list the rules for each unit, a few rules for the faction, the faction's fluff, and have modelling/hobby tips.
J--
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/29 05:11:23
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Paingiver
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The merc battlegroups are out of production but the metal models are still current so congrats on the deal. Most people don't start with mercenaries, and their contracts can be confusing for new players, but they are much more competitive now in mk2 than they used to be. Magnus in particular is very strong now and he works in the contract that hires out to cryx so even if you go with them as a main faction you can use magnus on the side.
I would recommend the faction decks to anyone updating old models or buying second hand stuff but they are not really needed otherwise and, if you want model stats, the mercenary force book is probably the best of the six.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/29 19:06:39
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Druid Warder
SLC UT
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As a note on the Magnus battlebox, is that it was discontinued before MkII rolled-out You should check to see what edition of the cards you have. The MkII point costs are ag ood place to check. Manglers are PC 8 in MkII, whiel in MkI I think they were about 110, not sure.
As for building Magnus, he's my favorite Mercenary caster, but he's detrided a lot. But there are people who play Mercenaries primarily and the sort of force you can build for Magnus actually meshes well with other casters of their, such as McBane and the upcoming Cpt. Damiano.
And stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/30 09:27:47
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
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How can I tell from the cards themselves what version of Warmachine they are for? There isn't anything obvious on them or the box that says either MkI or MkII
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/30 09:45:29
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Master Tormentor
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The difference in cards is fairly obvious. They'll have a large square illustration, and the PC will be in the double or triple digits. Also, there are NO Magnus (or Gorten, for that matter) boxes with Mk2 cards in them, as they're shipped shrink-wrapped and Privateer stopped producing them before the new edition dropped. You'll either have to order cards from Privateer or pick up a deck.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/30 09:45:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/30 09:56:47
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Bane Lord Tartar Sauce
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yastobaal wrote:they'll send you the MkII version (will look like this)
Laughing Man wrote:The difference in cards is fairly obvious. They'll have a large square illustration, and the PC will be in the double or triple digits.
Also, there are NO Magnus (or Gorten, for that matter) boxes with Mk2 cards in them, as they're shipped shrink-wrapped and Privateer stopped producing them before the new edition dropped. You'll either have to order cards from Privateer or pick up a deck.
I received a Magus box sent through the post last week with MkII cards inside. However, I can't remember if the box was shrink wrapped or not. So what could have happened was that the retailer replaced the cards themselves (as they could swap cards via PP for all their stock).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/05/30 12:59:56
Subject: Another Warmachine beginner
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Pyg Bushwacker
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filbert wrote:I bought a battlegroup on a whim (I picked it up and it felt heavier than the others) and I wondered if it is any good as the beginnings of an army in its own right - Magnus the Traitor mercs.
Do people tend to run Merc armies? Or more of an adjunct to a faction?
YEAH YOU DID. (Merc player here!) Mercs run in a variety of Contracts or Theme Lists that specify which models can take part. You'll need to pick up the Forces of Warmachine: Mercenaries book for this or use an army builder like iBodger or Forward Kommander (google em!). I started Mercs with pirates (Talion Charter Contract) but have been moving into using Magnus (Four Star Syndicate) and am currently assembling a ton of Steelheads.
For future players considering if Warmachine is worth the switch, try reading this post: Why Play Warmachine
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