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A friend of mine referred to orks as heretics, then backed it up with "space marines call them heretics." Has anyone got an example of fluff to back this up? I don't remember it happening in any fluff I've read. She claims it happens in Eisenhorn and Ravenor, I've only read Ravenor but don't remember Space Marines or Orks featuring.

Oh, and please no C.S. Goto.

Well...
They are heretics...
They don't believe the Emperor is a god or anything like that.
Actually i think they are heathens rather than heretics but i'm not sure on the difference so it might be nothing.

I know the meaning of "heretic" as someone who has significantly changed their beliefs, whereas a heathen would never have held them.

Then Orks are heathens rather than heretics.

Orks are Xenos.

I belive orks are all of the above. /\ /\

I don't remember any Orks in either the Eisenhorn or Ravenor series. There was only a handful of Space Marines as well.

If an author did write it like that, I 'd dismiss is as a lapse.

Orks are in a category of their own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orks are in a category of their own.

Space Marines call anything that isn't human nor Space Marine, Abomination's that must be purged from the Galaxy.

But they aren't Heretics for the reasons described above. If anything they are fun guys .... get it? .. fun guys? ... fungi? ... yeah? ... no? ... Fine, be like that then!

Alan Davies makes that joke so much funnier..

Good for Alan Davies, I'll give him a cookie when i next see him.

I'm sure he would like that...

They aren't heretics. Their religion is heretical if anyone converts to it (and I would have no doubt that some humans have), but they themselves are merely xenos rather than heretics.

Xeno heathens?
Or are all xenos heathens by default?

Xenos.

purplefood wrote:Xeno heathens?
Or are all xenos heathens by default?

Yes. They are all heathens by default. Orks and any other race, are just Xenos scum.

purplefood wrote:Xeno heathens?
Or are all xenos heathens by default?

I'd assume that yes they are, xeno's describe race/aliens or whathaveyou, heathen's describe a lack of belief in what you yourself believe. By context, or rather judging from the scene of 40K as real life is not always a good comparison, all xeno's in the 40K universe have their own beliefs and therefore would be classed as Heathens, as far as I'm aware, Chaos are the only ones who are Heretics because they turned their back on the religon they once had.

Thats my take on it anyhow.

As already mentioned, Orks are not heretics. They are Xenos scum that needs to wiped from the galaxy.

HellsGuardian316 wrote:Space Marines call anything that isn't human nor Space Marine, Abomination's that must be purged from the Galaxy.

Unless of course, they are Space Apes that make their weapons better...

You're buddy is probably referring to the Dawn of War game where some of the Space Marines will sometimes shout "Heretics" when they come into contact with an alien or chaos unit.

Although amusing, it isn't accurate. An ork is a "Xenos scum!" or a "Green-Skinned Heathen!"

But Heretic is right out. Unless the Ork grew up in a human foster house hold, was taught to embrace the Emperor as his personal lord and saviour, and then started wearing black, stopped going to school, began drinking tomatoe juice and calling it blood, yells things like "Stop repressing me, you conformists!" to his parents, and then began wearing Gork or Mork pendants and t-shirts.

Then, and only then, would he be a heretic.

Xenos are Xenos.
Heretics may be Xenos.
Orcs are Xenos but not Heretics but they generally kill humans.
Space Apes are Xenos but they generally do not kill humans.


Edit: what am I saying? After flipping through both books, I can't seem to find orcs, so your friend either misquoted or made a fundamentally wrong statement about Orks.

Thats not an ape, thats just an Adeptus Mechanicus who hasn't shaved in a while.

Counterquestion: Would a Catholic call a cow or earth worm a heathen or heretic?

Kroothawk wrote:Counterquestion: Would a Catholic call a cow or earth worm a heathen or heretic?

A heathen since they aren't expected to believe it in the first place...
If they did believe in God then decided Islam was more for them they would technically be heretics... i think.

Oh! But you never know, nobody asked the Cows or Earthworms what they believed in.

Next time i am in the situation of questioning a cow's beliefs i'll ask it...

Heretics are exclusively humans who don't follow the Imperial Creed.

Orks are xenos.

Blasphemy is saying things about a religion, heresy is acting against a religion, heathenism is beliveing in other gods. Xenos are always heathens, Heretic is usually used in 40k for traitors.

Thanks guys, seems I was utterly right and being silly to doubt my awesome rightness.

The Emperor Protects.