Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So in most cases a glance will result in -2 on the vehicle damage chart, does this essentially mean that a 1 or 2 on a glance does nothing? I have seen people play it as it does nothing and seen people play it as normal shaken and stunned results.

All comments are read and appreciated
-E

Read page 61 of the BRB, the box that says "Vehicle Damage Table" and look at the first result.

Hint: It says "1 or less" under the D6 result that causes Shaken.

I've come across this with my 'crons, and yes it's on pg.61.

Ah ok, then sorry guys i dont have a brb at the moment.

Get the little Assault on Black Reach one from Ebay - usually about £6 for us UK buyers. It is exactly the same, ruleswise, as the larger book.

If in the next addition they do make the vehicle damge chart harsher I hope they balance that a little by making any result less than 1 "no effect"

Oh yeah, that would make open topped vehicles close to invincible against claw stompas (+4 to damage chart).

nosferatu1001 wrote:Get the little Assault on Black Reach one from Ebay - usually about £6 for us UK buyers. It is exactly the same, ruleswise, as the larger book.

^This.
The cheapest i could find was just about £10, but i got some dice and templates etc. so im happy. It is a really good idea to grab yourself a copy. Happy hunting

Deuce11 wrote:If in the next addition they do make the vehicle damge chart harsher I hope they balance that a little by making any result less than 1 "no effect"

A little OT, but what would they do to make it harsher?

It was already pretty harsh in 4th, hence why is slightly more forgiving now. I honestly think it's fine the way it is.

Jidmah wrote:Oh yeah, that would make open topped vehicles close to invincible against claw stompas (+4 to damage chart).

I just spent 15 minutes staring at this string of words trying to understand just what it was supposed to mean.

First off a Klawstompa hitting an open topped vehicle only has a total of +3 to the damage table(the usual +1 for a titan CCW is included per the Klawfrenzy rule).

Second: D6+3 can never = 1 or <. Hell the sum will always be >3.

And A Glance would still always damage an open-topped vehicle: d6+3-2 = D6+1 = >1.

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:It was already pretty harsh in 4th, hence why is slightly more forgiving now. I honestly think it's fine the way it is.

Vehicles in general, and transports specifically, are far more forgiving than in 4th or 3rd, which is one of the reasons why mechanized armies have become the norm in today's metagame, relative to previous editions where unmounted units were far more common. For those who weren't playing back then, in 4th, units embarked on a transport that was destroyed were auto-pinned in the next turn (fearless or not), and penetrating hits from ordnance weapons destroyed vehicles on a 4+, with the occupants being destroyed, as well, on a roll of 6. Additionally, it was much more difficult for vehicles to be considered "in cover," and that merely downgraded penetrating hits to glancing rather than giving a save to ignore the effect entirely. I also think that skimmers that moved more than 6" in their prior movement phase were wrecked on an Immobilized result, though fast skimmers moving over 6" could only be glanced.

Not quite Saldiven - you looked up on a chart, which was based on distance moved etc, to determine if you were Entangled or not.

Additionally if you got a penetrating result, the vehicle was stunned + something else (except on a 1, just stunned then) AND any occupents had to disembark.

Its why you tended to see people not embarking troops when deploying, but hiding behind. If you didnt get first turn it was far less devastating...

Saldiven wrote:Vehicles in general, and transports specifically, are far more forgiving than in 4th or 3rd, which is one of the reasons why mechanized armies have become the norm in today's metagame, relative to previous editions where unmounted units were far more common. For those who weren't playing back then, in 4th, units embarked on a transport that was destroyed were auto-pinned in the next turn (fearless or not), and penetrating hits from ordnance weapons destroyed vehicles on a 4+, with the occupants being destroyed, as well, on a roll of 6. Additionally, it was much more difficult for vehicles to be considered "in cover," and that merely downgraded penetrating hits to glancing rather than giving a save to ignore the effect entirely. I also think that skimmers that moved more than 6" in their prior movement phase were wrecked on an Immobilized result, though fast skimmers moving over 6" could only be glanced.

So...you're agreeing with me?

I think he was adding meat to the bones of your statement, is all.

I figured. Just wasn't completely sure.

Saldiven wrote:

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:It was already pretty harsh in 4th, hence why is slightly more forgiving now. I honestly think it's fine the way it is.

Vehicles in general, and transports specifically, are far more forgiving than in 4th or 3rd, which is one of the reasons why mechanized armies have become the norm in today's metagame, relative to previous editions where unmounted units were far more common.

Transports ruled 3rd edition. Move 12", disembark, rapid fire then charge? Way more powerful than the current edition.
4th swung too far the other away.
5th is about right, in my opinion.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:It was already pretty harsh in 4th, hence why is slightly more forgiving now. I honestly think it's fine the way it is.

Vehicles in general, and transports specifically, are far more forgiving than in 4th or 3rd, which is one of the reasons why mechanized armies have become the norm in today's metagame, relative to previous editions where unmounted units were far more common.

Transports ruled 3rd edition. Move 12", disembark, rapid fire then charge? Way more powerful than the current edition.
4th swung too far the other away.
5th is about right, in my opinion.

The only thing I don't like is you can not get that lucky shot with a glance and destroy the vehicle.

Revenent Reiko wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Get the little Assault on Black Reach one from Ebay - usually about £6 for us UK buyers. It is exactly the same, ruleswise, as the larger book.

^This.
The cheapest i could find was just about £10, but i got some dice and templates etc. so im happy. It is a really good idea to grab yourself a copy. Happy hunting

Jealous I couldn't find a mini-book for sale...I had to fork out $57 USD for the regular one

jbunny wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:It was already pretty harsh in 4th, hence why is slightly more forgiving now. I honestly think it's fine the way it is.

Vehicles in general, and transports specifically, are far more forgiving than in 4th or 3rd, which is one of the reasons why mechanized armies have become the norm in today's metagame, relative to previous editions where unmounted units were far more common.

Transports ruled 3rd edition. Move 12", disembark, rapid fire then charge? Way more powerful than the current edition.
4th swung too far the other away.
5th is about right, in my opinion.

The only thing I don't like is you can not get that lucky shot with a glance and destroy the vehicle.

Yeah but you can still glance things to death by getting rid of its guns + immobilize. Always fun rapid firing/charging AV10 with STR4 and rolling heaps of dice, hoping to get enough 5's and 6's to blow the thing up!

3rd was all about transports and assault(the general theory was that 12 turns of assault was better than 6 turns of shooting); Vehicles were still death-traps but the ability to get into assault quickly was considered worth the risk.

mega_bassist wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Get the little Assault on Black Reach one from Ebay - usually about £6 for us UK buyers. It is exactly the same, ruleswise, as the larger book.

^This.
The cheapest i could find was just about £10, but i got some dice and templates etc. so im happy. It is a really good idea to grab yourself a copy. Happy hunting

Jealous I couldn't find a mini-book for sale...I had to fork out $57 USD for the regular one

Ouch, i think i got fairly lucky, but i normally see at least a couple for sale

Saldiven's basic point is correct.

Vehicles are forgiving in the sense that destroyed and exploded results have relatively little effect on the passengers.

That's not a flaw of the vehicle damage chart so much as of the effects on passengers chart.

Kommissar Kel wrote:3rd was all about transports and assault(the general theory was that 12 turns of assault was better than 6 turns of shooting); Vehicles were still death-traps but the ability to get into assault quickly was considered worth the risk.

My rhinos were never death traps for me. Of course I was only in them at the start of the turn. Nothing like a good 26" assault on first turn, and up to 32". God I miss my 3rd ed Blood Angels.

1s or 2s become a 1, as it is the lowest on the damage chart.

Kilkrazy wrote:Saldiven's basic point is correct.

Vehicles are forgiving in the sense that destroyed and exploded results have relatively little effect on the passengers.

That's not a flaw of the vehicle damage chart so much as of the effects on passengers chart.

Yup.

I think the vehicle rules need to be somewhere between 4th and 5th edition's rules. They need to die less easily than they did in 4th, but need to be less of a complete no-brainer choice when it comes to either running Mech or Footslogging armies.

Saldiven wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Saldiven's basic point is correct.

Vehicles are forgiving in the sense that destroyed and exploded results have relatively little effect on the passengers.

That's not a flaw of the vehicle damage chart so much as of the effects on passengers chart.

Yup.

I think the vehicle rules need to be somewhere between 4th and 5th edition's rules. They need to die less easily than they did in 4th, but need to be less of a complete no-brainer choice when it comes to either running Mech or Footslogging armies.

I play IG and I don't think all-Mech IG are autowin; quite the opposite. For example, a Green Tide Ork Army with Power Klaw Nob "taxis" is brutal. All Mech IG lists just can't kill enough orks and 29 Slugga Boyz plus a Nob with Power Klaw always results in a wrecked/exploded Chimera and up to 4 or 5 dead veterans and/or pinned survivors. Sometimes the Boyz get to multi-assault several Chimeras in the same charge. Enough S4 attacks versus AV10 rear armor stops Chimeras quickly. Horde Tyrannid lists pose similar problems.

Other armies field enough S7 shooting and/or lots of S8 close combat attacks to make vets in Chimeras nervous about moving forward.

So I think the choice isn't a no-brainer between Mech and Footslogging for the IG. Best to compromise somewhere in between in order to guarantee enough protection for the vehicles and plenty of firepower to thin down the enemy BEFORE the Chimeras or Vendettas/Valkyries head for the objectives.

I can't speak to the other armies. Mech may very well be a no-brainer choice for them.

Edit: Forgot to say that I like the vehicle rules the way they are now. 3rd Edition was too much "Rhino Rush" and 4th Edition made vehicles nearly useless to me. Good players kill my vehicles pretty darn quick if I take too many of them and I don't see mech IG winning all of the tournaments. In fact, I usually see other armies take the top spots. IG seems to be highly competitive but the top tier players have answers in their lists to beat the guard.