Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I want to make a second army so I can keep it where I live while my more competitve and larger force stays near the FLGS. I already have 2xTL Auto Can Dreads, 1x Termi Libbi, vindicare. So to make a cheap, fun, and decently competitive GK army i figured Draigo-Wing.

here it goes:

HQ:
Draigo - 275
Libbi (standard net load out) - 175

Elite:
Vindicare - 145

Troops:
5x Paladins: 3x Halbred; MC Hammer; 2x Psycann. - 325
5x Paladins: 3x Halbred; MC Hammer; 2x Psycann. - 325

Fast:
5x Interceptor: Psybolt, Psycann, MC Hammer - 175

Heavy:
Psyfledread - 135
Psyfledread - 135
-----------
1690
60 points remaining


Closing thoughts:
Is 60 points enough to make the dreads venerable? (I'm at work so no access to codex).
Should I consider Brotherhood Banners?
Am I gunna get crushed by everything?


Thanks in advance


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By cross referencing another thread it seems that 60 points can upgrade one Psyfledread to "Venerable." 1750 on the nose. Good?

60 points is enough to make ONE of them venerable, ven dreads are expensive for grey knights but seeing as how your army is the way it is, it would be a good idea to make him venerable.

Is this list horrible? It does not have to be 'ard boys ready but, let's face it, 40K IS a competitive hobby. At least in my area. And I want to win a few games against TWC.

A few things have occurred which make me want to revisit this list before making purchases.

1) I played my first game AGAINST GKs and all I have to say is... WOW PSYFLEDREADS ROCK AND VEN PSYFLEDREADS ROCK HARDER!

2) According to some bat reps and furthercontemplation on the matter I think the Libbi may be a waste of 170ish points. Its is simply too many just to buff a single squad. I am highly considering dropping him (which is a shame cause it is my favorite model i my range)

3) 5xInterceptors is simply not good enough. My goal is to use these as a harassment unit. Something that should reliably kill 3+MEQ from 24".

Where do I go from here?

Having played a similar list at 2000 points, I can confidently remark on the following.

With great dissapointment, I have learned that while paladins are incredible units, running 10 paladins is an elite choice, and shouldn't be used as a mainstay troop force. You still need bodies with guns; the only thing protecting the paladins from instant death is that librarian with shrouding.

I know, I bought, assembled, and painted draigo with the intention of running around the map with 20 paladins and not much else... realistically, at this point level, ap2 weapons are abundant and turn your multi-wound paladins into dead terminators.

1 Librarian attatched to 1 elite paladin squad is more cost effective than draigo, and the 275 points your saving is almost 2 5xGKSS with psycannons in rhinos; which, as we've learned by know, is a fantastic troop choice.

However, if you're hard set on Draigo and paladin troops, then you need something else to draw fire away from them, because they're either footslogging or mounted in a stormraven/landraider. You could run a cheap Inquisitor and a chimera, and just get your paladins into that thing; but as it's not an assault vehicles, you can't 'protect' your paladins by locking them in CC.

Once you start losing paladins, it's a hard game to win; they are both your scoring units and your primary offensive force.

I really don't know at what point level draigo and paladin's make sense... I have trouble at 2500 with 15-20 paladins.

I really want them to be awesome, but in order for that to happen, they need toughness 5, barring that, the 3+ cover save from the librarian is the only thing that helps against ID.

Draigo reigns in the points at 1000 point games to 1500 point games, where there is 1 to 2 possible threats to the paladins, this is because there are enough targets for the enemy to worry about to take up there time but not enough models to always fire at the right enemies.

The biggest benefit is that so few players run terminators currently in competitive play that ap 2 weaponry is not seen until 1500+ point games.

I would suggest taking out the librarian and making another psyfle dread, yes the librarian is useful but he is not necessary.

I would not worry about making the dreads venerable as it stands, they will not benefit enough for their point cost in this point bracket

alternatively to the additional psyfle dread, use this template to get a power hitting all-purpose death machine that will either SLAUGHTER your opponent or take serious flak away from your paladins

1 OM inquisitor (40)
::hellrifle
Henchman Warband: 195
8 psykers
3 servitors (with 3 plasma cannons)
Chimera transport

this is the standard attack for this vehicle

2 attacks at str 4 ap 5 shots at 24"
1 attack at str 6 ap 1 shot at 36" (with rending)
1 attack at str 10 ap 1 large blast at 36"
3 attacks at str 7 ap 2 blast at 36"

as you can see launching 4 templates a turn will ensure destruction on those that you choose, overkill even. this will show your enemy that this is your "ace in the hole" allowing your paladins to close the distance and do as they do best.

I guarantee this will make up for its point cost EASILY and swallow whatever it goes up against whole.

but ultimately it is your choice. I cost-appropriate the Inquisitor death group at roughly 100$$ admittably a little steep, but just look at it o.O lol (that is including everything I mentioned, the inquisitor, his retinue, and the chimera)

you MIGHT need to customize the servitors for they will probably not come standard with psycannons and they are metal models...

making psyfle dreads costs roughly 55-60 dollars each (to buy the dreadnought and the items needed to customize them)

using your current army list and modding it as I showed, you will have 0 points after putting turning the librarian into the kill-chimera change into effect or you will have 100 points if you turn the librarian into a psyfle dread.

Thanks guys. Good info here. I am going to take it all in consideration. If and when I make the jump i'll report back.

My Draigowing seems to do pretty well at 2000pts with about 12 Paladins, Draigo, Lib, Dreadknight x2, Ven dread, and Vindicare.

If you're smart with where your paladins go, they won't really get ID'd much (shrouding/Draigo-save). Once you get them onto an objective w/ cover, they are pretty immovable.

I was running my Paladins in LRs, but you give up a lot of good shooting if you do that... not to mention LRs cost a huge amount of points and are giant targets.

Daedalus, I'd like to see that list laid out.

Do you run that in 2x6 paladins or 2x5 and a unit of 2?
I'm experimenting now with running 3x5 paladins now, and I was considering a 4th squad of just a solo paladin held in reserve and kept there as long as possible with psychic communion, with the intention he'd drop in to hold an objective I've already secured while the scoring units get back to work elsewhere in the battle.

The bitch about paladins is since they cost so much, you don't really want 'dead' rounds with them... they're meant, as far as I can tell, to be offensive units. Making them scoring units means you'll be temped to play them defensively; which they're great at, but it keeps them from getting out there and causing pain.

What are your experiences with Holocaust against hordes (nids, orks, IG blob)? It looks helpful on paper, covering a major GK drawback. But is it in practice?

Holocaust does its job. I love it, and it makes the incinerator a totally pointless weapon upgrade.