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1456pts

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HQ
Librarian - 235 pts
Mastery lv3
Pairs of nemesis falchion
teleport homer
Servo-skull
the summoning
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Troops

5 GK Terminator - 230 pts
5 Pair of nemesis falchions
1 Incinerator

5 GK Terminator - 230 pts
5 Pairs of nemesis falchions
1 Incinerator

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Heavy support

Nemesis dreadknight - 270 pts
Heavy psycannon
Nemesis greatsword
personal teleporter

Nemesis dreadknight - 270 pts
Heavy psycannon
Nemesis greatsword
personal teleporter

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Elite

Venerable Dreadknight - 221 pts
searchlight
extra armour
twin-lascannon

What do you think. Is it good or not

What is your battle plan? What's it with the Falchions? Is a Venerable Dread with TL-LC, EA & DCCW? What's your plan for that guy?

the falchion part well it for the extra atk. the venerable dread is with twin linked las cannon. I wrote twin las cannon but I meant twinlinked lascannon.

My battle plan is to use the librarian to use the summoning to bring my guy quick into melee while I have my dreadknight to protect the my guys.

It my first complete army. and I never played before. (well not a real match)

Well, I think there is room for improvement.

1. The Librarian cannot bring the guys forward, unless he is up front to begin with. Since you do not have many guys, he would presumbably deploy with the Terminators anyhow.

2. TL-LC is a waste on a Ven. Dread I think. The high BS goes unused. It is torn between standing back and shooting (LC-range) and going forward and punching things.

3. The Falchions ain't that great I think. At least not on all of them. A mix of halbeards (higher initiative) and swords (better inv. save in cc) will likely get you further. Especially on the Librarian, I would stick with a sword.

Is all-Terminator a "design-objective" in your army (e.g. no Power-Armour Grey Knights)?

First question. Where is your Grand Master?

You're running two Teleporting Dreadknights, and you're not giving them a facekicking scout-shunt?

I'll give you the short version - The GrandMaster's ability "Grand Strategy" Allows you to give the "Scout" special rule to 1d3 units. The Scout special rule allows units to make a scout move before the first turn begins. The Personal teleporter lets you jump 30" instead of making a normal movement. Therefore, your two dreadknights can leap into kill positions before the game even starts and start wrecking your enemy's most precious units.

Your 1500 point army consists of 14 models. That means every model you lose has to take 107 points worth of enemy with it in order to make sense. That's not going to happen. Your enemy's entire shooting rounds directed on your handful of models will force you to roll enough 1s to lose your terminators, assuming they're not just using meltas, plasma, or las.

Your scoring units are outfitted for CC and horde-breaking. Great, if you're playing against orks or nids, but really only good if you're up against 1000 points worth of them; the shooting rounds alone will take their toll on you.

Now, let's look at these choices one at a time.

1st problem:
HQ. Librarian: The librarian is an amazing support unit. His shrouding ability will keep a troop alive long after they should have normally expired. Might of Titan stacks with Hammerhand to make your ordinary S4 dudes into S6 beasts... Quicksilver makes your dual-wielding monsters unbeatable in CC...
But you don't need mastery level 3 if your only Power is 'the summoning' Considering the librarian is only moving 6+1d6 per turn anyway, you don't really need to keep calling your units over to it. Ditch mastery 3, pick up shrouding, and at least 1 offensive power. Smite is a good standby, but pretty much all of them rock.

Better yet, in this army, ditch the librarian and pick up a grand master, for the same price as your librarian, you could give him orbital relay... keep him safe in the back ranks of your army, use his grand strategy to make your Dreadknights Scouts, and never move him... just drop pie plates on your enemies every round to even out the vast difference between the 14 models you brought to the fight, and the 35-100 he brought.

2nd Problem: Troops.... You want to play terminators, awesome, I'm not going to discourage you from doing that... but lets look at how they're outfitted. Falchions are great, 2 extra attacks with force weapons, that's really nice, considering your low model count, you need to be able to end those CCs quickly - the general consensus, however, is that halberds are almost always preferable; you must be used to playing hordes, because you gave them 10 extra attacks and an incinerator. I might suggest, maybe losing the incinerators for Psycannons - They're going to lay out 20 attacks with power weapons on a charge... the template may just be gratuitous at this point; where as the psycannon is still going to be great against hordes (4 shots at S7) it will also give you the ability to blow up light vehicles pretty reliably.

Now I know I said I wouldn't discourage you from using terminators, but I would like to present this one little suggestion. You can increase your model count by swapping those terminators out for strike squads (saving 200 points) and use those 200 points to add a purifier squad, (for great close combat results against hordes) an interceptor squad (for more teleportation), or a third strike squad and 2 rhinos (to get to your objectives faster). You could even, and I know it seems weird, run a 3 man paladin squad with falchions as an elite choice, and let them tie up a horde in CC for a few rounds (they'll probably win) - the paladins don't need an incinerator because they have the Holocaust ability.

Heavy Support -

I love dreadknights, they're beasts, each one is going to kill something, especially if you drop them right into your enemy's precious back ranks, but you need to SHAVE POINTS like crazy. Ditch the greatsword, the doomfists do just fine. In higher point games, I'd say keep the greatsword, or use a demon hammer, but at 1500 I think the extra attack you get from the pair of doomfists is a little better than rerolls, not in practice, but in value. Those points your saving = more guys with guns.

Elite -
Venerable Dreadnought. No.
1st. it's too expensive for an AV12 lascannon, I mean look... it costs nearly as much as a landraider and more than a stormraven, both of which are more useful to an army with terminators as troop choices, both of which have more firepower and more mobility. So Definitely not.

Instead, consider taking those points you saved and either adding more guys with guns or freeing up a few more points and replacing it with 2 135 point dreadnoughts armed with dual AC and Psybolt ammo.

Now... unfortunately, the grey knights epithet is true "Always Outnumbered"; building a GK army is all about how well your few troops work together.

Play the army you want to play, but make sure it's the best version of that army you can make.

ok thank

yes all are terminator armour

Right, is that the goal?

I have a question about the grand master. Is there a specific model for it or I just buy grey knight terminator an custom one

So with what you have suggest. I did some change it look like this

HQ

Grand master -225 pts
orbital strike relay

Troop

5 GK terminator - 230
pairs of nemesis falchion
Incinerator

5 GK terminator - 230
pairs of nemesis falchion
Incinerator

Heavy support

Nemesis dreadknight - 270
Heavy psycannon
Nemesis greatsword
personal teleporter

Nemesis dreadknight - 245
Heavy psycannon
personal teleporter

For a total of 1200 pts

so I have 300 pts to spare or I can even remove 1 termi group (+230pts)

let say for 530 pts should I go for 2 strike squads + 1 purifier

Well, just playing with the 300 points you have left, I'd say you want to get another scoring squad in there, so I'd stick a 5 man strike squad in a rhino, give them a psycannon, and use your remaining 135 points to put in a dreadnought with 2 x AC and Psybolt ammo.

For 530 points, I'd say...
2x Strike Squad with Psycannon, Razorbacks with your choice of gun, and either something fun like an assassin, or that dreadnought, or, if you can shave a few more points, an interceptor squad with 1xpsycannon or a purifier squad with 2xPsycannons in a rhino.

Although, lets see if Svendrex weighs in, he tends to comment on GK lists and he always has good advice.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more guns you bring with you, the more likely you are to win back your points. The Grey Knights do really well in close combat because every single one of them has a force weapon, so the most helpful thing you can do is whittle down your enemy before the CC starts.

HQ
GK Grand Master
+ Daemon Hammer, Orbital, 2x Servoskull (= 240)

Elite
1x Paladin
+ Halberd (=55)

Troops
10x Grey Knight Terminators
+ Psybolts, 2x Psycannon (= 470) 1x Daemon Hammer, 1x Halberd optional

5x Grey Knight Terminators
+ Incinerator, 3x Falchions (= 220) 1x Daemon hammer or 1x Halberd optional

Heavy Support
Dreadknight
+ Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter (= 245)

Dreadknight
+ Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter, Big Sword (= 270)
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Maybe something more like this. It's not high-end competitive, but I think this keeps the spirit of what you are aiming for. Of course, opening the selection to Strike Squads, Razorbacks, etc.. , changes things more thoroughly.

Grandmaster Scouts the 2 Dreadknights and, if you get 3 Scouts, the 5-man Terminators with the Incinerator/Falchions that will try to get into close combat.

The 10-men Terminator Squad will usually Combat-Squad, stay midfield and throws down S5/S8 Psybolt surpression fire.

Paladin deepstrikes perhaps on the Servo Skulls and does some Holocaust/Distraction/kill SM Scouts, Kroot, stuff like that...

I do love a 1 man paladin squad, the Jack Bauer of 40k.

Shunt scout doesn't work. Read the rules under scout movement, which states that scout movement must be a normal movement, "shunt" isn't a normal movement. Sorry to burst that for you.

then what about flat out?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or turbo boosting? you can do those in a scout move, turbo boosting is a special move

I think you got the wrong rules dispute.

The "shunt" supstitutes a movement "once per game". It is most certainly a "normal move" (for which there is no definition anyhow). The only caveat I am aware of is different. It's that scout moves occur, to some peoples interpretation, before the game has started. This could lead to two interpretations that are likely not RAI. 1.) You cannot "scout-shunt" because the "once per game" rule excludes a move "before the game has started". 2.) You can actually make two "shunts", one during a scout-move "before the game" and one "in the game" as the rule says once per game and scout-moves do not count as part of the game.

However, everywhere I saw it played (which wasn't that often I admit), people tend to go with shunting as a scout-move is ok, but also counts as being the one move you get per game.

Likewise, "sensible" people generally keep Dreadknights as MCs even with teleporters.

From what i understand the Dreadknight is most effective with doomfists and maybe an incinerator (if you have the points) and the shunt

Also the dreadknight is not as good as the psyflemen dreadnought (dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolts 130pts) at ranged support and its cheaper points wise to

@Kreedos:
The Scout Shunt, while currently a controversial rule, is still allowed for 2 reasons: a. Precident: GW ruled that TurboBoost is allowed as a scout move, the wording on TB is comparable to Personal Teleport, and is most certainly not a 'normal' move. b. General Rules: unless specifically disallowed or clarified by faq, the codex > rulebook. Scout says normal move, teleport says "whenever you could move", you can certainly move during a normal move, therefore, you can shunt.


@Slaam Re: Walt - The personal Teleporter pushes the dreadknight into the 200-300 category. One dreadknight has to wipe out either a landraider, a squad of obliterators, a team of 3 crisis suits, a devastator squad, etc... to make back its points. Doomfists work really well - first turn you're going to want to assault a heavy squad (usually 5 models) or a Heavy Support Vehicle (usually high armor) or an HQ (usually great in CC) - Against a squad, the doomfists assault will eliminate 3 or 4 models on your assault, meaning that on your opponent's turn, unless he brings another squad in to join the assault, you win it on his assault, freeing up your DK to assault again on turn 2. Against a vehicle, +1 attack means 1 more chance to roll that 5-6, or second 4, to wreck it. But against an enemy HQ, who most likely has an invulnerable save, you need the extra ST10 attack to try to slip past his invul and cause ID. I'd say if you're running 2 dreadknights, at least one of them should be rocking the fists. The greatsword becomes the second best choice, because re-rolling everything means 3 guaranteed wounds, vs. 4 potential ones. Also, the psyfleman dreadnought is more cost effective that the Dreadknight, but it is not 'better', it's different, it has a different function. The dreadknight has a massive psychological impact on your opponent, and two of them are even worse. It takes a long time to put 4 wounds on one of those those things, because they spend so much time in CC, especially if they both teleport into your deployment zone. Considering Slaam has opted for minimal troops, that's the kind of distraction his footslogging troops need in order to get cover and reach objectives.