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What is the reason for keeping them secret? It sounds like a lot of pointless trouble to do it; mindwipes, murders, exterminatus....

Also, do you guys think that it is worth it?

It's supposed to be about keeping the true scale of the threat Daemons pose secret from the masses, and to keep anyone from knowing about The Grey Knights use of sorcery.
Is it worth it? No, for several reasons. Firstly, Daemonic incursions are exceedingly rare. Secondly, the chances of seeing a battle, and a regular Space Marine is rare, what the chances of seeing The Grey Knights? Thirdly, it's a travesty that so many resources are spent killing a few IG, who will likely never have seen The Daemons, will never have contact with the populace, and will die in their next battle.

We ll pretty mush what iproxtaco said. But primary to hide the fact that whole Imperium could be consumed by daemon in a matter of months. And when people see GK they ask question, witch brngs more question, witch brings the truth to the surface. And Inquisition doesn't want that.

Dunno, why would people ask questions when seeing the GK.
Its not that the imperial citizen sees a grey astartes in battle and afterwards is full of suspicion.

How come people dont ask questions when they see Salamanders then, I mean coal black marines with re eyes would surely produce a lot of questions and worries about marines turning into deamon looking monsters etc.

How about a feral looking space wolf with fangs, wouldnt that too raise questions?

Blood angels covered in gore on a rampage?
Flesh tearers?

So what´s so difficult seeing a marine fighting a deamon on the battle field, arent the astartes, no matter the colour of their armour, supposed to bring death to the enemies of the Imperium?

Pyriel- wrote:Dunno, why would people ask questions when seeing the GK.
Its not that the imperial citizen sees a grey astartes in battle and afterwards is full of suspicion.

How come people dont ask questions when they see Salamanders then, I mean coal black marines with re eyes would surely produce a lot of questions and worries about marines turning into deamon looking monsters etc.

How about a feral looking space wolf with fangs, wouldnt that too raise questions?

Blood angels covered in gore on a rampage?
Flesh tearers?

So what´s so difficult seeing a marine fighting a deamon on the battle field, arent the astartes, no matter the colour of their armour, supposed to bring death to the enemies of the Imperium?

It's not about the marines themselves, it's what they do and what they fight, Daemons, and Chaos in general.

I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

People don't know half as much about the Inquisition as you believe. They're the bogeymen of the Imperium, everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

The fact of the matter is that it's a question of "knowing is believing". Simply knowing and speaking the names of Daemons can give them power.

Best that none know.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

Maybe they have some good damn reason to hide GK existence...
Maybe it has something to do with GK being Astartes?
Or psykers?

Anyway, they have something to hide, so big that even Astartes are being brainwashed.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

People don't know half as much about the Inquisition as you believe. They're the bogeymen of the Imperium, everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

The fact of the matter is that it's a question of "knowing is believing". Simply knowing and speaking the names of Daemons can give them power.

Best that none know.

It's not about knowing half of anything. They know it exists is what I'm saying.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

People don't know half as much about the Inquisition as you believe. They're the bogeymen of the Imperium, everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

The fact of the matter is that it's a question of "knowing is believing". Simply knowing and speaking the names of Daemons can give them power.

Best that none know.

It's not about knowing half of anything. They know it exists is what I'm saying.

You missed the point.

They know the Inquisition exists. They don't know what it does. They don't know that the Ordo Malleus protects the Imperium from the taint of the Daemon, they don't know that the Ordo Hereticus would burn them alive if they ever turned renegade, they don't know that the Ordo Xenos is hard at work in the Imperium trying to counteract the Tau's ideology, etc.

You seeing what I'm saying here, KC? The true nature of the Inquisition is not something the average Imperial citizen(or hell, even Guardsmen and nobility) will be aware of.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

People don't know half as much about the Inquisition as you believe. They're the bogeymen of the Imperium, everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

The fact of the matter is that it's a question of "knowing is believing". Simply knowing and speaking the names of Daemons can give them power.

Best that none know.

It's not about knowing half of anything. They know it exists is what I'm saying.

You missed the point.

They know the Inquisition exists. They don't know what it does. They don't know that the Ordo Malleus protects the Imperium from the taint of the Daemon, they don't know that the Ordo Hereticus would burn them alive if they ever turned renegade, they don't know that the Ordo Xenos is hard at work in the Imperium trying to counteract the Tau's ideology, etc.

You seeing what I'm saying here, KC? The true nature of the Inquisition is not something the average Imperial citizen(or hell, even Guardsmen and nobility) will be aware of.

Yeah, I'm saying the GKs could do that too. When an Inquisitor gets spotted he doesn't burn the planet from existence for the good of Humanity and all that crap. What works for the Inquisition should work for its Chamber Militant too.

Thought the reason for all the secrecy was to stop the influence of corruption from causing another incursion. Ya' know, "The peasants have been exposed to the acts of horror. It''l spread and they'll be more war. They must be cleansed!" act. Or that's the impression I got from reading the codex.

everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

Except for half of them openly announcing they are coming with armies of henchmen to root out witches and heretics by fire causing dread and anxiety amongst the populace and thereby by default also questions.


Anyway...
If anything causes dangerous questions into forbidden things it is the inquisition itself and how it frequently operates and not what colour an astartes armour has.

People know of the inquisition and in part also what it does. People know the inquisition hunts heretics (people that deny or worship other things then what the church says which by itself does raise forbidden questions like "what"?) as well as witches (psychers) and also why since it is more or less public knowledge what can happen if a witch isnt reported.


As for knowing what the GK fight against, again, what is the problem?
Some persons see strange xenos (deamons but to the knowledge of the average citizen those would be xenos psychers) being fought by grey astartes, said people are killed afterwards = problem solved. Logical.

Whereas, some people have heard or grey astartes (as contrary to black, green, red etc astartes) so the whole planet they reside on must be burned just beacuse someone "might" ask the question: "what are they doing that the black/green/red astartes are not?". Illogical.

Simply knowing of or seeing a grey astartes doesnt mean people know or even question what they are doing and why.



I claim the very contrary would be true, that open knowledge of the grey knights would be of far more benefit then secrecy.
People dont need to be told what they combat, just that they are there. imagine the added stability and security in the general populace if they know that there is a chapter of marines in the Sol system.
Why, to guard terra and the Boss of course, what else reason could there possibly be other then a secondary line of defense so close to Cadia should chaos forces slip through the blocade.

It's to hide how many Gray Knights turn to Chaos and have to be put down by their former comrades, so they can keep up the "not one has fallen, we swear!" tagline.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't think it's neccesary. I think it's a holdover from The Emperor's day when everything possible was done to keep the true nature of the warp secret. i.e. there are bad things in the warp. People know about the Inquisition, what's the big deal about their Chamber Militant?
GKs secrecy policey has needlessly caused the death of billions of innocent people.

People don't know half as much about the Inquisition as you believe. They're the bogeymen of the Imperium, everyone thinks they would be able to spot an Inquisitor in the crowd when in reality Dave standing in the corner smoking his pipe is an Inquisitor and smirking at that idea.

The fact of the matter is that it's a question of "knowing is believing". Simply knowing and speaking the names of Daemons can give them power.

Best that none know.

It's not about knowing half of anything. They know it exists is what I'm saying.

You missed the point.

They know the Inquisition exists. They don't know what it does. They don't know that the Ordo Malleus protects the Imperium from the taint of the Daemon, they don't know that the Ordo Hereticus would burn them alive if they ever turned renegade, they don't know that the Ordo Xenos is hard at work in the Imperium trying to counteract the Tau's ideology, etc.

You seeing what I'm saying here, KC? The true nature of the Inquisition is not something the average Imperial citizen(or hell, even Guardsmen and nobility) will be aware of.

They watch dramas with Inquisitor stereotypes and caricatures of heretics for entertainment, they know what the Inquisition does in a way similar to how the average person knows what spies do from watching action movies: they don't know the actual details, but they know the general idea, albeit with a romantic tint to it.

Greyish wrote:Thought the reason for all the secrecy was to stop the influence of corruption from causing another incursion. Ya' know, "The peasants have been exposed to the acts of horror. It''l spread and they'll be more war. They must be cleansed!" act. Or that's the impression I got from reading the codex.

This is probably the most accurate; Chaos is a taint, or true Chaos is at least, and it poisons those who come into contact with it. Genuine cultists aren't just chanting gibberish and scribbling random patterns on things; their symbols have inherent meaning and powers, and can plant the seed of corruption in weak minds who witness them. It's the only threat where merely knowing more about it makes one dangerous.

Another thing.
The whole GK burning entire populations to be sure taint isnt spread, I mean talk about a missed opportunity. Why not let the taint run in the population whilst carefully monitoring it (pressing the end button if/before things go to bad). The people will be killed anyway so might as well do some use. From all the taint and fighting you can pretty easy locate centers of resistance and in the last minute rescue those few that didnt succumb to chaos.

From those further culling can find potential recruits and chapter serfs (or recruits for the inquisition) can be taken. Imagine if you could get a quick way to find the few individuals that are so to speak chaos-proof out of entire planetary populations, talk about valuable persons and talk about wasting it all by "just" burning things and leaving.

Pyriel- wrote:Another thing.
The whole GK burning entire populations to be sure taint isnt spread, I mean talk about a missed opportunity. Why not let the taint run in the population whilst carefully monitoring it (pressing the end button if/before things go to bad). The people will be killed anyway so might as well do some use. From all the taint and fighting you can pretty easy locate centers of resistance and in the last minute rescue those few that didnt succumb to chaos.

From those further culling can find potential recruits and chapter serfs (or recruits for the inquisition) can be taken. Imagine if you could get a quick way to find the few individuals that are so to speak chaos-proof out of entire planetary populations, talk about valuable persons and talk about wasting it all by "just" burning things and leaving.

Meh, just burn 'em all.

Pyriel- wrote:Another thing.
The whole GK burning entire populations to be sure taint isnt spread, I mean talk about a missed opportunity. Why not let the taint run in the population whilst carefully monitoring it (pressing the end button if/before things go to bad). The people will be killed anyway so might as well do some use. From all the taint and fighting you can pretty easy locate centers of resistance and in the last minute rescue those few that didnt succumb to chaos.

Or you could accidentally wait too long and end up with another daemon world on your hands.

Besides, the Sororitas story shows us what Grey Knights do with people who are "resistant" to Chaos...

Eumerin wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:Another thing.
The whole GK burning entire populations to be sure taint isnt spread, I mean talk about a missed opportunity. Why not let the taint run in the population whilst carefully monitoring it (pressing the end button if/before things go to bad). The people will be killed anyway so might as well do some use. From all the taint and fighting you can pretty easy locate centers of resistance and in the last minute rescue those few that didnt succumb to chaos.

Or you could accidentally wait too long and end up with another daemon world on your hands.

Besides, the Sororitas story shows us what Grey Knights do with people who are "resistant" to Chaos...

A habitable world that is able to sustain a population is probably becoming more rare by the year. Im not so sure the Imperium wants to study the stages of a deamon outbreak and lose a perfectly good planet to exterminatus or chaos when they can save the planet (not the people but the rock they live on)

Beside that is not logical, with that they are only feeding the chaos gods + they have an oath to the Emperor that they will protect his people, killing billions of people who have nothing to do with Chaos is just not them.

It's totally worth it. If there is a 0.01% chance of Chaos corruption, it's better to just kill them now and save yourself the trouble later. There are always more mooks where those came from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:Some persons see strange xenos (deamons but to the knowledge of the average citizen those would be xenos psychers

Err... no, there is no mistaking a daemon with a Xenos, psyker or otherwise. Seeing or even hearing one is a mind-shattering experience for most folks, especially with the ever more common occurrence of latent psychic talent. The populations are exterminated not because they saw the Grey Knights, but because when the GK are deployed the situation is usually way out of hand already.

I would think that if an Imperial citizen or even an Imperial guard witnessed a GK operation that they would have no idea who they were. Just Grey Astartes, if NOBODY outside of the inquisition knows who they are there aren't even rumors of these mysterious grey warriors.

Well the GK have collected and safeguarded a great deal of forbidden knowledge over 10,000 years. Not that they'd be able to but it may encourage the Imperium's enemies to double their efforts in order to acquire said knowledge (especially enemies like Ahriman). But other than that i'd say its just a precaution.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I would think that if an Imperial citizen or even an Imperial guard witnessed a GK operation that they would have no idea who they were. Just Grey Astartes, if NOBODY outside of the inquisition knows who they are there aren't even rumors of these mysterious grey warriors.

That's true. That's why they don't kill people for seeing them. They kill people for being having contact with Daemons, which have a tendency to corrupt as well reveal certain truths most people aren't supposed to know about.

They kill people for seeing them aswell, to keep everything secret, EVERYTHING! Like some excentric chinese monarch.

They do indeed. They are wacky that way.

My guess is for the same reason as the US Gov will not be releasing the Bin Laden operation videos. The less any potential opponent knows about the capabilities and tactics of the operatives the better.

That's not the reason, but at least it's what America wants you to think.

the GKs stay secretive because the nature of their fight must be hidden.


a GK, in and of himself, would just be seen by the Imperium's citizens as an Astartes so that is no harm in and of itself.


the problem is in this. where a GK is, a Deamonic taint is also. he wouldn't be there otherwise.

and Deamoinc Taints require extreme cleansing. anyone who had even the slightest chance of exposure(the taint can spread through indirect contact, much like a disease. especially with Nurgle)


when a virilant disease breaks out amoung livestock, they usually will destroy all animals of the species within a certain distance and then put up a quarintine zone.

think of it like that. the GKs deal with the threat, destroy any human who had any possability of exposure, and then put up a cordon.



if people like Government figureheads knew about GKs and their fight that could cause problems.

1. panic. like the politicians they are, they might try to escape or possably even "help". this could cause massive problems with security.

2. If the politicians were involved with the activities the GKs are prosecuting then they might alet their comrades to the danger. regular Space marines are bad enough, but might just be passing through, Deamon Hunting specilists would be a dead give away.

^ Good point.

Burning everything after a Nurglish event makes sense. After a Khonate event, not so much, that taint somewhat unsubtle. Slaaneshi, Tzeentchish or Undivided, given that Warp can be as morally infectious as Nurgle is physically, mind wipe or put down everyone.

Khorne tends to bring other problems.


Khorne infestations will usually end up in a burned planet anyway so it basically ends up like that, one way or another.