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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/09 17:02:18
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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I have been planning on a foot-guard list for quite a long time. I have seen many 'blobs with artillery' and 'blobs with russes' armies, and I wanted to have some input.
Would a no-tank (including artillery) army even work? If not, could anyone recommend what the best tank/artillery to add to a footsloggin guard list?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/09 17:20:56
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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No tank armies can definitely work, though massed infantry in gun lines can be quite dull to play against for your opponent.
The main issue you are going to run into when playing an all infantry list is a lack of long range AP3 and better firepower. Russes are great for chewing through MEQs and without them you may have a hard time of it.
A good alternative can be veteran and special weapon squads with demo charges in chimeras / valkyries. They will give you a much needed (albeit short ranged) pie plate for taking out MEQs. Sly Marbo is also fantastic in this role as his high BS, ability to reliably appear anywhere on the table and AP2 demo charge essentially allows you to deny your opponent one of his squads.
If you do plan on putting a tank or two in your army, you really can't go past the standard russ. It's main cannon can doubletime as anti infantry and anti tank, and it has a variety of options that allow you to tailor it to fill in any gaps in your list
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What do you want for tea? I want crisps! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/09 17:34:05
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Drop Trooper with Demo Charge
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Standard foot guard is at a slight disadvantage in this edition due to the proliferation of av12. I play foot and mechanised, and foot has to be quite precisely played to make a go of a game. Cover is KEY! The armor gives you some flexibility.
You cannot go wrong with a standard russ. Chimeras help, a lot, but limit the size of your squads. A couple of 5 man stormtrooper squads with meltaguns, and marbo are great unit hunters. The stormies will hunt tanks with great effect, and as stated before, marbo can decimate a unit by himself. 2 if he's lucky.
The vets can supplement them by taking out tanks, transports, or heavier infantry. Rough riders are a great one hit wonder. A squad of 10 with mogul kamir can wipe a squad of termies off the board in one go, for cheap.
iI you wanna kepe it less mech and more gunline, heavy weapons bases of lascannons, missile launchers, and autocannons can help. Heavy bolters for hordes.
I find a well balanced mix works best. just remember that the chimeras add alot of survivability to your units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/09 17:34:56
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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I'm planning on lascannon stents, and some hw teams, but I'm not sure if that will be enough anti meq/ tank. I could use meltas in my blobs and Marbo...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/09 17:39:25
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Infantry horde armies can definitely work for the guard, since with them, they can field ridiculous numbers of heavy weapons; autocannon spam, especially when backed up by a few good orders, can be incredibly effective at taking down light tanks. The hardest targets for such an army are high armour value vehicles, because lascannons are overpriced and not very effective, and meltas are short ranged and walking to their targets. The exception might be some deep striking melta stormtroopers, but they're not only unreliable thanks to reserve rolls, but also expensive for suicide units. Your best bet in that case would be to move lots of infantry/platoon command squads up the field, with a melta in each, and get ready to take a pounding from heavy armour.
If you were to add tanks to such an army, I think that there are two things you should keep in mind: first, they should be tanks that can kill heavy armour to cover your bases; and second, that these few tanks are going to be absorbing a lot of anti-vehicle firepower, so they should either be tough, or be able to fire indirectly.
For these reasons, I'd recommend a battery of three (separate) Basilisks, hidden behind obscuring terrain. If they hit, they have roughly a 50/50 chance of glancing AV 14, and they hit on side armour all the time. The 36" bubble of no-fire zone won't matter, because that space should be filled by your infantry, anyway. If there's no line of sight blocking terrain, though, they're probably screwed. Depending on your play environment, then, three regular russes might be more advisable. They won't be able to touch a landraider, but they're surprisingly effective versus any other battle tank, especially if spaced out to provide side-armour shots, and certainly more survivable than Basilisks.
On the other hand, for a primarily infantry player, the natural thought would be: "but with 450 points I could buy a whole new infantry platoon, kitted out with meltas and autocannons..." And that might be the right choice.
EDIT: I would avoid lascannon sentinels, as they'll go down as soon as they show up due to being the only thing enemy anti-armour wants to shoot at. Heavy weapons team are gold for an infantry army, though. Mass autocannons is an awesome thing, though, and will deny anything AV 12 and below. Granted, it's not quite as effective vs. AV 12, but when guard take mass autocannon, they take MASS AUTOCANNONS.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/09 17:43:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 19:28:59
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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For the regular russes, would that be 3 separate, or a squadron (I've heard bad things about squadrons...)
And also, would I put sponsons or no?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 20:52:51
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Mighty Gouge-Horn
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It really depends how you want to run your gun-line. Personally what I would do is take one of these two HQ's
Option 1: CCS, Creed, Regimental banner, Vox, AC or LC, MoO and a Lord Commissar
Option 2: CCS, Regimental banner, Vox, AC or LC, MoO and CCS, Vox, PG, AC or LC, MoO
Then I would take two or three platoons with a setup something like this:
2xPCS-4xMG
2x30man Blob Squads (vox, commissar, LCx3)
2x20man Blob Squads (vox, commissar, ACx2)
4xHWT w/3xAC each
2xSWS w/2xFlamer, Demo each
2xSWS w/3xMG each
I would use the LC Infantry Blobs, PCS's and the SWS to hunt armor and heavy infantry, everything else to blow infantry light armor up.
With this setup I believe 1 Manticore and 2 LRBT's would be ideal or 1 Manticore 2 Demolishers. Either way, always take a Manticore. I think the first option with the LRBT's is a stronger build as you might have issues hiding your Manticore and you can give him a wall to hide behind.
GL
Grix.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 21:29:14
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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Seems like an awesome setup, Grix
I need to get the codex still (traded away my IG stuff, now I'm getting back in) so could you tell me an approximate points cost for that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 22:26:28
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
In your squads, doing the chainsword tango
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His name is Ailaros, and he will have much to say to you regarding this topic
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 22:35:15
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Yeah, if I was choosing vehicles to back up infantry, I would go with indirect fire, to reach things my infantry can't; or with leman russes, because they can lay down fire and as long as you wrap them well with infantry to stop anyone approaching within 6", many armies will struggle to take them out.
Thinks to consider:
Manticore - best barrage weapon in the game
Colossus - helps dig heavy infantry off objectives, I think IG often have problems with that
LRBT - long range, massacres infantry
Executioner - lavish version of LRBT
Demolisher - great but will require more care to protect
I would avoid hydras, which can be filled in for with autocannon HWS, medusas, which will be quickly taken out, or any of the other russes, which suck.
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Eldar Corsairs: 4000 pts
Imperial Guard: 4000 pts
Corregidor 700 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 23:39:49
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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I'll second the addition of the Manticore over the Basilisk. The 35 point premium gets you a lot of goodness: D3 shots vs. 1, closed topped, shorter minimum barrage range, Strength effin' 10. The AP3 on the Basilisk is nice, but with cover, and fewer shots than the Manticore, you won't be doing much more damage anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/13 23:46:58
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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Hmm, would 3 auto-cannon sents, 2 LRBT's (sponsons or are they a point sink?) and a manticore be a good armored addition?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/14 10:35:35
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Best Russ to support a foot slogging army? I'd say Battle Tanks and Demolishers. Where else can you get good large blasts on an assault tank?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/14 14:19:34
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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The sentinels are a sub-optimal choice on paper to support an infantry centric army. They have to be within line of sight to take their shots, exposing their low (relative to a Leman Russ) armor to the enemy. This is why artillery is so popular in support, it can fire and not expose itself. Russes also work because they're so hard to kill at range.
That being said, I think sentinels have a place in a real army list (as opposed to a net-optimized list). If you want scout sentinels, the only thing to do is outflank them or put them in reserve. The AC, or AC+Hunter-killer can walk on and hit most of the board from wherever they show up, and put a pounding on medium and light armor. They are probably a bad choice to start on the board, though, as it doesn't take much to drop them, being open-topped and armor 10.
Armored sentinels are probably the better infantry support sentinel. They can advance with the infantry, fire away, and tie things up in assault. While they aren't tough on paper, they are small enough that on a table with decent terrain coverage they can avoid a lot of the worst incoming shots. They should also get a cover save against the shots that do hit home. By staying near the advancing infantry, they have a good defense against deep strikers (opponents won't sac a deep striking unit to pop a 55-75 point walker, if they do, all the better). It's the sort of unit whose kills/points ratio isn't that high, but it brings a lot to the table in terms of giving the commander options.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/14 18:38:35
Subject: Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot
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I'd add some LR executioners or Basilisks on your heavy infantry guard army, though I'd think your enemy would be all too glad to engage this army in assault as soonas possible to negate the support tanks purpose as fast as possible.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/06/14 18:53:58
Subject: Re:Tanks for IG: sell them to me
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Stormin' Stompa
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My initial plan was a few power blobs and a few shooting blobs, just so I can sit back and shoot, then bog down the rest with CC
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