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I would def think that packs can , how bout bikes ? Im guessing no

You answer is in the Bikes section of the rule book. Reading is good.

It states so in the rulebook, for reference though in case you can't get it for whatever excuse one could give, no.

jump/jet packs yes. bikes no

Battle focus changes this right ?

I don't think Battle Focus changes the fact that Jetbikes can't run, but does this mean they can turbo-boost and then shoot?
I'd presume not, and that Guardian Jetbikes only get it due to sloppy copy-pasting, but what do others think?

No. It only allows you to shoot after running (or vice versa) - it doesnt actually grant you the ability to Run, if you dont have it

Turboboost is NOT run; Bladestorm has no effect

Battle focus says nothing about turbo boosters or flat out at all. It's purely for running.

Yeah, for the moment, I'd say it's a special rule on that unit that does absolutely nothing. I -would- like to see clarification on it, however. Never been a fan of seeing a special rule on a unit that does nothing at all.

It does do ONE thing...

The way Battle Focus is worded, you can opt to use it if the entire unit has the rule, but only models that can Run get any benefit. So an attached IC that isn't on a bike would be able to benefit. Quite why you'd ever attach them is another matter...

Bikes can still move in the assault phase correct? 2 d6. They already have move shot move and its better. IMHO.

I'm not sure I agree with this line of argument. Codex overrides main book. Battle Focus says :"Can either Shoot and then Run or Run and then Shoot, in the same Movement phase. Cannot fire heavy weapons blah blah."

Nothing in there says the unit has to have access to the Run option if they don't have the battle focus rule.

It specifically says Bikes cannot run in the rulebook. At the bottom of the Battle Focus rule it says:

"models that cannot run gain no benefit from the battle focus special rule"

It can't get clearer than that.

Basically it's there for IC on a jetbike not interfering with the rest of the unit running. The same is true for a foot IC in a jetbike unit.

steinerp wrote:
Battle Focus says :"Can either Shoot and then Run or Run and then Shoot, in the same Movement phase. Cannot fire heavy weapons blah blah."

Be careful when you do this.

The Army Special Rules section of the iPad codex says:

Battle Focus: Can either Shoot and the Run, or Run and then Shoot, in the same Shooting phase. Must complete both actions before you move onto the next unit. Cannot fire Heavy weapons then Run, or Run then fire Heavy weapons, unless Relentless.

But that's shorthand. Clicking on the "Battle Focus" hotlink anywhere in the book (even this exact entry) gives a more detailed rule.

A unit that contains only models with the Battle Focus special rule can either shoot and then Run, or Run and then shoot, in the same Shooting phase. The unit must complete both actions before you move onto the next unit - otherwise the chance to make the second action is forfeit.

A model cannot Run if it fired a Heavy weapon during the same Shooting phase unless it has the Relentless special rule. Similarly, a model that has Run cannot then fire a Heavy weapon in the same Shooting phase unless it has the Relentless special rule. Models that cannot Run gain no benefit from the Battle Focus special rule.

Note the two important details that the shorthand didn't even bother mentioning.

steinerp wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with this line of argument. Codex overrides main book. Battle Focus says :"Can either Shoot and then Run or Run and then Shoot, in the same Movement phase. Cannot fire heavy weapons blah blah."

Nothing in there says the unit has to have access to the Run option if they don't have the battle focus rule.

only where there is a conflict.

Where does it say that bikes can now run? Page and graph is sufficient.

Nos- It says it right in the rule that was quoted, from the reference section of the codex. A model with Battle Focus may Shoot and Run or Run and Shoot. That gives them the ability.

Quark however kindly points out that in another section of the book a more complete version of the rule is presented that says that this rule doesn't help a model that can't run so they don't get it.

Sorry about the incomplete rule quote, I didn't have the codex with me and was using a pdf which contained the reference section only to provide the rule text. Odd that they would leave that one sentence off in the reference section. But at least it is clear.

No, it says they may run and then shoot, or shoot an dthen run. A model with BS0 may not shoot, even if given a gun.

You are given allowance to do something you could not normally do - shoot after running, or run after shooting. NOWHERE does it say "models with ability may run if they could not do so before"

One might argue that this is a case of General Rule vs. Specific Exception.

The General Rule is that Bikes cannot Run.
The Specific Exception is Bikes with Battle Focus are specifically allowed to do so by the Battle Focus rule.

As no limitations are presented as to how to apply the Battle Focus rule (meaning it is to be applied in full to any model with said rule) Bikes are allowed to Run.


EDIT. Ah, I see Quark has quoted the eBook wording. Thank you.

And a big "Screw You!" to GW for making revision that only appear on horrible iJerk platform.

It doesn't need to. The conflict exists because the rule says it may run and shoot period. It doesn't (at least in the first reference section) say that the model needed to be able to before. In fact the last sentence is only needed to resolve the conflict, under your interpretation the last sentence serves no purpose.

A gun doesn't give you the ability to shoot, it gives you something to shoot with. There is a difference there. To shoot (effectively) you need both a BS and a gun, to run you need the Run ability, which battle focus gives you.

(note: the rule debate is pointless as Quark got it correct and I was wrong originally, however the argument about why I was wrong is worthwhile as it may apply in the future)

No, it doesnt give you the Run ability. It allows you to run after shooting, or shoot after running. It neither gives you the ability to shoot if you didnt have one before, not running if you didnt have one before, but a specific exemption to the rule requiring you to run OR shoot.

It even says that models that can't run gain no benefit.
Bit of a pointless statement if the rule granted the ability to run.

Indeed, its almost like it is specifically allowing you to do one thing you normally couldnt (do run and shoot in same phase) and has no allowance to Run if you cannot already run

Steelmage99 wrote:
EDIT. Ah, I see Quark has quoted the eBook wording. Thank you.

And a big "Screw You!" to GW for making revision that only appear on horrible iJerk platform.

It's not just the eBook version. I'm looking at it right now in my hardback copy - only models that can already Run can benefit. It's just that it's in the full version of the rule, just before the bestiary, and not the summary.

If you are basing your argument solely on the reference sheet, you don't have an argument. The reference sheets are heavily paraphrased.

Never make rules arguments based on the summary pages. They always leave things out the summary pages.

 Super Ready wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:
EDIT. Ah, I see Quark has quoted the eBook wording. Thank you.

And a big "Screw You!" to GW for making revision that only appear on horrible iJerk platform.

It's not just the eBook version. I'm looking at it right now in my hardback copy - only models that can already Run can benefit. It's just that it's in the full version of the rule, just before the bestiary, and not the summary.

Oh, my God. You are absolutely right. Double fail on my part. *Facepalm*
That's what I get from going off of the wording presented in the thread instead of researching it myself.