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Been collecting and painting chaos space marines for years now, but iv never played tabletop and now starting to get into it.

Had a few questions on building an army, are you able to choose any amount from all the categories exp: hq, troop, heavy . id like to start around 1500pt games ( most of my friends play around there )


i have a range on models, sadly i see now that when it comes to playing iv chosen alot of useless point wasters,
For marines is upgrading one to a commander even worth it?and for the special weapon in the group what should i look to use and what is useless?

my friend plays orc and runs a "swarm" army as he calls it, i like the idea of it and is csm capable of running one?

Id like to feild as many marines as i can i currently have 40 each with a commander /rino

( group 1, 2 plasma gun, grpup 2 heavy bolters, group 3 2 melta group 4 all have chain swords and 2 flamers

i have 5 termies 1 autocannon with a chain fist, 1 with combi flamer rest double bolters all have power weapons.

2 deamon princes ( one old, one new)

old is just plain with mark of khorne
new same with wings

chaos lord with termi armour, combi flamer and deamon weapon with mark of khorne

1 pred with all lascannons

1 unbuilt landraider

10 marnies waiting to be built for chosen group, thought a close combat group full of flamers would be nice

have an unbuilt dead

6 unbuilt raptors

3 bikers

First things I would get the Chaos Space Marine codex and the Base Rule Book. You will find it will be very hard to play without any idea of the rules or what your units do.

Next thing you need to do is sit down with some friends who also play and play a few games. Hopefully they can help teach you as you play and are patient enough to take the time to walk you through these games. If you have a question, look it up in the rules. One you get the hang of where stuff is and what to look for (terminology can be confusing) you and your friends can figure out how to play the game /right/. Who knows, maybe your friend will even learn someone.

Page 89 of the CSM Codex tells you about your Force organization. You have to have at least one HQ choice and two troop choices for any list, barring special occasions.

I think you have the possibility to make a list with what you have, but I think it is unfair to ask us to make a list for you. You need to play some and make a list... then bring it here and ask for folk to help you refine it. When they give you advice, don't be afriad to ask why they recommend what they suggest.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

First off i need to point out that your marines squad 2 can't carry 2 Heavy Bolters. A squad of 10 can have either 2 special weapons (flamer, melta, plasmas) or 1 special and 1 heavy (heavy = lascannon, heavy bolter, autocannon, missile launcher).

CSM cant really run a swarm or horde army simply because our basic models cost so much more than Ork models. They can put a lot more models on the tabel for the same amount of points.

As stated above, get the codex and the rule book and have a proper read through them both, See what units you liek the look of. i find t also helps to think about what warband or legion you want your army to be as thsi can help you narrow down your unt choices (for example: Word Bearers might field more Demons while iron Warriors will field fewer bikes/raptors and more big guns).

Also think about what sort of tactics you want to use, do you want a hard hitting frontal assault army or a quick flanking army for example.

i think i went about it the wrong way when i started and just a oad of models that i thought looked cool, many of which i now never use (Raptors, i'm looking at you!).

having said that, i think you have the basis of a decent all-round army. 2 Princes are a very popular option and you can never have enough Troops choices. You will want to look at getting a few more Rhinos though due to the amount f Melta and other anti-tank weapons floating around in the current game.

Firstly, welcome to dakka!

as Praxiss and BlkTom said, rulebook and codex are a must. as of right now I think you have a much better start than most people getting into the tabletop aspect of play though in that you have all the makings of a nice, even competative, army.

You say you have been building and painting, what scheme have you been going for? What legion / warband interests you? What kind of play style do you like? All of these can help us recommend things to try out for you

Went and picked up the new codex and rulebook ( and snagged the last edition rule book as well if that means anything )

For the war band i went with my own colors they are a mix of red gore and scab red for base coat, deep purples and all the trim is a chaos black/shining gold mix.
weapon i went with bolt gun metal.
My zerkers are the classic colors

Idea was to have a mass fleet of pirate chaos raiders, but i would like to go more about the assault route with heavy firepower to back it up.
And i love the idea of khorne but from reading on here i see alot of people run nurgle ( for the mark at least )

Will read over a the book and see what i can come up with for a better makeup thanks for the input all ;D

try and find my camera cord and get some pics up

To be frank, I wouldn't have gotten the 4th Ed book, as it can make the rules confusing for a new player. Focus on 5th ed for now.

It is good you have an idea in your head on what you envision the group to work. Now you just have to put that to paper.

Berzerkers are excellent troops. Alot of people put them in Rhinos to protect them from shooting (for a round or two) but Rhinos are...difficult to assault from. Another tactic is putting them in Land Raiders, and even larger mobs and just running them across the battlefield.

You can have Berzerkers and long range firepower.

As for nurgle, it is the Plague marines that are hot. They are Fearless, Toughness 5, with Feel no Pain and can have 2 special weapons without having a 10 man squad (can run just 5 of them). Running Demon Princes with Mark of Nurgel is also pretty popular as your giving it Toughness 6.

Other than that, putting Icon of Nurgel on normal Chaos Marines is less than ideal.

First list i came up with:
HQ

Deamon prince
-Mark of Khorne

Deamon prince
-mark of khorne
-wings

Elite

didnt know if i should either roll with termies or chosen but i took chosen for now

Chosen x10
-Icon of Khorne
-flamers x3
- Power weapon x2

Rino
-dozer blade
-twin linked bolter


Troops

CSM x10
-Plasma gun
-heavy bolter

Rino
-twin linked bolter

Csm x1-
-plasma gun
-heaby bolter

Rino
-Twin linked bolter

Zerkers x9

-Skull champ with power weapon

Heavy support
Chaos Pred
-Twin linked lascannons
-Lascannon
-dozer

Total of 1379

little bit left still looking into what i can get with that many points

was thinking of giving one csm group a meltagun tho, and id like a more khorne themed army but if nurgle on the deamon princes is really that much better then khorne id be willing to trade it for a better chance during a match

It's a good 1st list but a daemon prince with out wings is a slow fire target he will get shot befor he dose anything. The chosen is a good unit thay can outflank look the rule up its great for jumping on the bord close to the enamy and flaming them then going to assult so thay realy don't need a rino. Part for that it's a good starting list it alows you to try out what chaos hase to offer.

Another tip is just make a few difernt lists play with them and take out what you like and make better lists. Play testing is the best way to find out what you like best. We can give you advice but at the end of the day its your army you play it how you want.

Lord Azeazel wrote:Deamon prince -Mark of Khorne
Deamon prince -mark of khorne -wings

Wings are best for every DP (even if that one model doesn't have 'em yet. Promise your buddies that you'll get the wings). MoKhorne is one of the least used. MoNurgle or MoSlaneesh (with Lasho'Sub) are the two preferred loadouts for DPs.

Lord Azeazel wrote:Chosen x10
-Icon of Khorne
-flamers x3
- Power weapon x2

Skip the icon. Switch out flamers for Meltaguns. Chosen get to Outflank, which means using the MGs to bust somebody's tank in their back field.

Lord Azeazel wrote:CSM x10
-Plasma gun
-heavy bolter
Rhino
-twin linked bolter

Add in the Pfist Champion, and take out the HB. Go two PGs instead. Heavy Weps are almost always suckage, given one guy shoots his HB/LasCan/MissileLauncher and the other 9 CSM pick their noses.

Lord Azeazel wrote:Zerkers x9
-Skull champ with power weapon

These guys need one of your rhinos more than the CSM do. Have your long range CSM (plasmaGs) walk, squat an objective. Then have the KhorneBerzerkers use a rhino to go to assault something.

Lord Azeazel wrote:Chaos Pred
-Twin linked lascannons
-Lascannon
-dozer

I'd skip the dozerblades.

Lord Azeazel wrote:Total of 1379

little bit left still looking into what i can get with that many points

was thinking of giving one csm group a meltagun tho, and id like a more khorne themed army but if nurgle on the deamon princes is really that much better then khorne id be willing to trade it for a better chance during a match

Yeah, nurgle is far better for your list.

Khorne DP's are pretty worthless, tbh. There's no point in having them, really. The main reason for taking a DP is to have a Fearless, Eternal Warrior psyker on the field. W/ MoK, they just have an extra attack.. whoo. I understand wanting a Khorne themed list, so run Kharn as your HQ - model for model you'll get more from Kharn than a DP w/ MoK. I've ran all of the other three marks on my DP's (have one of each actually) & they're all good. And there's never a reason to field them w/o wings. Like Brother Erekose said, if they don't have wings, they'll just walk around & get shot.

Keep your Chosen cheap - there's never any reason to field more than five of them & no reason for Icons or special CC weapons. Five Chosen w/ five meltaguns are outstanding tank hunters thanks to their ability to outflank. Sometimes it backfire's on you, but 2/3's of the time they'll come out where you need them. You can do the same w/ plasma guns for heavy troops that are coming your way & surprise them by coming @ them from somewhere they thought was safe. CC oriented Chosen just get to expensive & we have far better units for CC than Chosen. I'm going to go ahead & say this too - if you have infantry that can fit in a Rhino, then they should be in a Rhino. I don't feel our Terminators are anything special & so I don't run them. Some people are fond of 'Termicide' units of 3 Terminators w/ combi-melta's that deep strike as close as possible to a key enemy vehicle & destroy it. Of course, next turn they'll likely be shot to hell, hence the reason they're called 'Termicide' units, lol.

If you're going to run standard CSM squads, then you should have @ least one squad out there w/ meltaguns. Most armies in this edition are heavily mechanized, so anytime you can have an option for meltaguns, I would suggest taking them. I rarely run plasma guns on anything, meltaguns are just as dangerous to infantry as they are to vehicles & you don't run the risk of blowing yourself up w/ them. You don't get rapid fire w/ melta's, but you can insta-kill multi-wound T4 models & that's always fun. If you want to run heavy weapons, then Havocs are the better bet - same price per model, but w/ more options for the heavy's & you're not wasting 99% of a squad to fire a heavy weapon. I run all cult troops (Zerker's, Plague Marines & Thousand Son's), but again, any time I have the option for a Champion & a power fist, I take that too. Give's you a chance if you ever get bogged down in CC w/ a walker or a monstrous creature. I would take the power weapon off the Berzerker Skull Champ & exchange it for a power fist on that note, too. Definitely want to put them in a Rhino too. Assaulting out of a Rhino can be tricky, but it can be done & it just takes a few games to figure out how to make it work.

You're going the right way w/ the Predator if you're gonna run it, but again - ditch the dozer blades. You're paying LOTS of points for those three lascannons & the only way you can fire all of them is if you're stationary. Ideally, you want to put it somewhere it has LoS to most of the table & let it sit there & dump out 3 lascan shots a turn.

~Vryce

Brothererekose wrote:

Lord Azeazel wrote:Deamon prince -Mark of Khorne
Deamon prince -mark of khorne -wings

Wings are best for every DP (even if that one model doesn't have 'em yet. Promise your buddies that you'll get the wings). MoKhorne is one of the least used. MoNurgle or MoSlaneesh (with Lasho'Sub) are the two preferred loadouts for DPs.

I can't say for certain about the CSM codex, but in the Chaos Daemons codex, it says under the Daemonic Flight entry, that the Daemon Prince flies with 'massive wings, tremedous leaps or sheer magical ability' or something of that sort. Basically, you don't -have- to have them modeled with wings, for them to have Daemonic Flight.

Is it written that way in the CSM codex? If so, wings physically present on the model are optional, your prince might just leap about like the incredible hulk! Or step through shadows with his sheer magical capability.

Cottonjaw wrote:
Is it written that way in the CSM codex? If so, wings physically present on the model are optional, your prince might just leap about like the incredible hulk! Or step through shadows with his sheer magical capability.

A Khornate prince isn't going to be using any magical capability
Jumping maybe. That would be interesting to model, actually.

Oh I wasn't really commenting on the Khorne part... just the wings part.

I could see the Khorne prince exploding in fire, and then re-appearing in an explosion of fire.

Or blood. Or basically anything else.

Sort of like the Devils from Heroes of Might and Magic series...

Thanks for all the help everyone , i see i have alot of reading to do and some games to play!

Post back in a few weeks with some updates ;D






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vryce wrote: I understand wanting a Khorne themed list, so run Kharn as your HQ - model for model you'll get more from Kharn than a DP w/ MoK.

Thought about that, was just working with what i had on hand

Cottonjaw wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:

Lord Azeazel wrote:Deamon prince -Mark of Khorne
Deamon prince -mark of khorne -wings

Wings are best for every DP (even if that one model doesn't have 'em yet. Promise your buddies that you'll get the wings). MoKhorne is one of the least used. MoNurgle or MoSlaneesh (with Lasho'Sub) are the two preferred loadouts for DPs.

I can't say for certain about the CSM codex, but in the Chaos Daemons codex, it says under the Daemonic Flight entry, that the Daemon Prince flies with 'massive wings, tremedous leaps or sheer magical ability' or something of that sort. Basically, you don't -have- to have them modeled with wings, for them to have Daemonic Flight.

Is it written that way in the CSM codex?

No... it is not. You need to buy them wings. You would be horified by what they consider demons in the CSM Codex as well. Second to last page of the CSM Codex... pop it open and see what they gave them for Greater Demons and Lesser Demons.

I see in your list that you seem to be pointing up the TL bolter on your Rhinos. If you check the entry in the codex you will find that they already come with one for free (took me ages to realise this). If you add on 5 points for a TL bolter you are actually giving them a SECOND gun (which if still fine, because as they are only S4 your rhino can move 6" and still fire both of them).

The general consensus for DPs seems to be Nurgle (for the T6) or Slaanesh (for Lash of Submission). Also give them wings as standard otherwise your big nasty CC model is stuck moving at 6" per turn and will never get anywhere before he is plasma'd to death. You dont have to model just wings either. Mine is modelled with a huge jetpack made out of a valkyrie engine. Use whatever you want or whatever fits best with your army.