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I have quite the extensive Chaos Daemons army and my friend wants to challenge me to a fight against his Grey Knights. I've fought Grey Knights in the past but not with my Daemons and certaintly not with the new codex. I haven't bought the new codex so I have no idea what to expect from the Grey Knights. I know that my friend runs a pure list so little or no units besides actually Grey Knights. I have just about every unit in the Daemons army. What are so of the key things I should spam to toast the Grey knights?

deffskulla wrote:I have quite the extensive Chaos Daemons army and my friend wants to challenge me to a fight against his Grey Knights. I've fought Grey Knights in the past but not with my Daemons and certaintly not with the new codex. I haven't bought the new codex so I have no idea what to expect from the Grey Knights. I know that my friend runs a pure list so little or no units besides actually Grey Knights. I have just about every unit in the Daemons army. What are so of the key things I should spam to toast the Grey knights?

Consider Khorne units such as Hounds, Bloodthirsters, Heralds, etc. - anything that can take Blessing of the Blood God. Everything with Blessing of the Blood God will get 2++ against any and every force weapon in his army, not to mention psychic powers. Other than that, they die just like normal marines. Just be faster than them - Fiends (watch out for Halberds as they give the Grey knights +2 Initiative). And as for long range shooting, they don't have much (unless he takes Rifleman Dreads), so your Soul Grinders could out-range him and drop big blasts on those units of marines.

Just a few things to think about.

Bloodthirsters. But that is assuming he doesnt bring that many guns. Key is getting into combat quick and put your 2+ invu save to bear. And then again , theres an issue regarding popping tanks first before getting the stuff inside. Its an uphill battle from here.

Greyknights have Daemonbane rule and all of their weapons are force weapons meaning:

-You must pass an LD test when wounded or your daemons are dead.
-You become initiative 1 when he assaults you thanks to psykout grenades.
-Warp quake is the biggest ballbuster. Basically, you auto-mishap when you deepstrike anything near the 24" bubble of the caster.


Good luck.
-

Also hope he doesn't know his army that well, and he doesn't take warp quake units (can we say turn 1 victory?). Or that he doesn't take units with excommunication, which removes your daemonic gifts (including the khorne saves against force weapons).

Even if he doesn't warp quake, or use excommunication, going last (grenades, and/or halberds) and having preferred enemy rolled against you is a nasty combo, then they also could just use sanctuary (difficult and dangerous terrain to assault units).... So when you finally get to swing your unit is depleted, and probably doesn't kill enough to win.

The warp quake will make sure that he gets 2-3 shooting phases against you. Something daemons dont really do well against.

He likes to tailor his list to always try to take me out, he has done this for years. Even when we play on teams or Apocalypse! Sounds like there's a lot to make it so I can't do anything or pretty well close to it.

I think you should fight him with a different army then =)

deffskulla wrote:He likes to tailor his list to always try to take me out, he has done this for years. Even when we play on teams or Apocalypse! Sounds like there's a lot to make it so I can't do anything or pretty well close to it.

Yep...

Welcome to the post-GK's reality for Chaos armies.

Remember, Psyk-Out grenades are only if he assaults you, so Beasts are very advantageous against GK. Assault from 19"+ inches away.

I haven't had trouble with GKs. You outnumber him. Your Daemonic Gifts don't count as psychic powers (so his psyker defense is gak).

Oh, and you can spaaaam power weapons, which is something he is totally unable to deal with.

Oh? And Bloodthirster with UM & BoTBG is something he literally has no answer for.


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Okay well not -no- answer.. but it's something he -has- to deal with, and really is going to have to throw a lot of points at.

BoTBG Bloodthirster inside a Fateweaver Bubble? Brotha please.

Well I'll be posting an army at some point. At least now I have some idea what to bring to the table and what to keep at home. Thanks for all the suggestions!

On another note, if I don't win I'm going to try to take out every single Grey Knight termie he sends at me. He loves his termies above anything else, daemons don't care if they go back to the warp as long as every termie dies... MUHAHAHA!!!

If he's taking lots of termines, thats a major league score for you.

Lower model count = your power weapons / monstrous creature attacks start outnumbering him fast.

Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Princes & Bloodthirster! He won't know what hit him.

I have both armies and we play them off each other at home quite a bit. The deadliest thing Daemons can throw at GK in our experience is all the Khorne units (as stated above for all the reasons given), Fateweaver, and anything you can put Breath of Chaos on... a couple of Flamer units, a Prince or two with it, and Fateweaver can always do it. The only thing more satifying as a Daemon player than reducing GK too goo with Breath is turning one into a Spawn with Gift from Fateweaver. Grey Knights have never fallen to Chaos? I think turning into a Spawn counts!

it is possible for a GK player in a 1500pt or above game with the correct units to cover the entire 4' x 6' table with Warp Quake on turn 1, if they go first.

SJ

puma713 wrote:Remember, Psyk-Out grenades are only if he assaults you, so Beasts are very advantageous against GK. Assault from 19"+ inches away.

Better have I6+ beasts then, cause GKs often have halberds, especially when list tailoring.

jeffersonian000 wrote:it is possible for a GK player in a 1500pt or above game with the correct units to cover the entire 4' x 6' table with Warp Quake on turn 1, if they go first.

SJ

If somebody did this to me I'd give him the stink eye and tell him he was a douche and thank him for the "game." Cause it's always fun to take an autowin button against an army that literally cannot do anything to win, based on its own rules. That psychic power should be banned from tournaments. It's so unbelievably cheesy.

timetowaste85 wrote:

jeffersonian000 wrote:it is possible for a GK player in a 1500pt or above game with the correct units to cover the entire 4' x 6' table with Warp Quake on turn 1, if they go first.

SJ

If somebody did this to me I'd give him the stink eye and tell him he was a douche and thank him for the "game." Cause it's always fun to take an autowin button against an army that literally cannot do anything to win, based on its own rules. That psychic power should be banned from tournaments. It's so unbelievably cheesy.

Eh, it is pretty dumb against daemons, but the fault is in the writer of the daemon book, not the GK book. The deployment rules for daemons is so bad as to be unforgivable, and GW should have known how bad it was (GW tends to overvalue how good deepstrike is, despite evidence to the contrary).

Wait a minute, the daemon codex writer is at fault for not knowing the gk codex might arrive eventually with the warp quake rule? I agree that daemon deployment makes them a bit random, but I think it really captures the flavor of Daemons. Also, as bad as weathering a turn of fire is, could you imagine footslogging i across he entire board to get to your enemies?!

IMO a few tweaks to the codex for daemons, maybe give them another posessed vehicle to assist sg in armor saturation and some rules for units that enable hem to scatter less or assault after DS and they would become really powerful.

All great suggestions and information that I'm going to need. I'm definitely going to throw as many power swords at him as I can! Also a good unit of Flamers is going to be awesome, Grey knights are going to fry under them! I'm probably going to use 2 soulgrinders for the pie plates and anti-tank, they have always worked well for me. Fateweaver is going to be a must and I'm thinking a bloodthrister combo... I'm going to hash out all the points later. I'm not sure if we're going to play a bigger game or smaller one. Either way I'm going to turn the Chaos Daemons on full blast!

I play GK's all the time with my deamons I use fateweaver, bloodthirster, bloodcrushers, Pinks and Bloodletters and have no problem with them. Just make sure you keep your army as close to fateweaver as possible, let the bloodcrushers do most of the work have bloodletters take out the troops hanging around also use BOT.

The trouble with GK v. Daemons is that GK are almost specifically tailored to deal with your army above all others. Preferred enemy, loads of "This is just a mediocre s4 weapon.... but it's a good version of poisioned against your entire list", their infantry-based FA choices say "You land where I want you to, or you don't come in", and being assaulted by 2 or more purifier squads leads to maniacal laughter BEFORE smashing your face in with their CC weapons.

GK have some interesting Swiss-Army knife units, but against daemons, that swiss army knife includes a machete and a humorously oversized set of adult toys that your opponent will violate, maim, and abuse you with... against your will... in public.... whilst your grandmother and complete strangers cheer them on.

Have fun with it and learn. Realize that things like Flamers Of Tzeench, which will dump a load of wounds onto the list, Soul Grinders, which, IIRC, are your only durable ranged option outside of 24", and staying away from things that will snap your spine outright will be your only consistant hope for ekeing out a victory (BTW, Soul Grinders make for an amazing drop in and break unit for the DS denial area...).

calypso2ts wrote:Wait a minute, the daemon codex writer is at fault for not knowing the gk codex might arrive eventually with the warp quake rule? I agree that daemon deployment makes them a bit random, but I think it really captures the flavor of Daemons. Also, as bad as weathering a turn of fire is, could you imagine footslogging i across he entire board to get to your enemies?!

IMO a few tweaks to the codex for daemons, maybe give them another posessed vehicle to assist sg in armor saturation and some rules for units that enable hem to scatter less or assault after DS and they would become really powerful.

No its not like that at all.


its because Deep Striking is so risky, even at the time.


forcing the entire army to deepstrike was the problem. Deep Strike mishaps are so nasty that its not worth it.

armies that can also deep strike tend to have ways of getting around Mishaps. such as Drop Pods. DoA is the only list which doesn't really have reliable ways around mishaps(and isn't a top tier build because it)



Warp Quake was meant to keep deamons from getting too close to the GK army. the problem is that GW doesn't put the whole picture together and realize that Grand Strategy could get strike squads accross the board before the deamons arrive and cover the entire map with warp quake.







as to the original question,


beware Librarians and Dreadknights. these models WILL have Dark Excommunication.

remember that not only does DE remove BotBG but it also removes Bloodletter power weapons as those are deamonic gifts too. it only works against things in BtB with the model with DE, but if a libby is in BtB with multiple units he can cast it 2 times(as it isn't a PSA) or possably 3 if he upgrades to lvl3.

This is great info. I usually run fatewaever/ sjulltaker. With 6 bloodcrushers. 2 packs of flamers with 6. 3 groups of screamers of 3. I k owing will see tons of gk at ard boys. Ill take anymore tips. That warp quake will suck.

Dr_Chin wrote:I play GK's all the time with my deamons I use fateweaver, bloodthirster, bloodcrushers, Pinks and Bloodletters and have no problem with them. Just make sure you keep your army as close to fateweaver as possible, let the bloodcrushers do most of the work have bloodletters take out the troops hanging around also use BOT.

This is quite an inspiration. Can you post batreps?

I thought warp quake was 12" range? (codex at home)

yes, but 4 Strike squads(if at least 2 got scout) in Rhinos can effectivly cover most of a 4x6 table.

2 of the squads in Rhinos scout forward into the center of the far quarters. the other 2 go into the nearest quarters.




each squad projects a 24" diameter circle with Warp Quake.


this leaves the only safe zones as small strips along the edges and in the exact center of the board.

the Deamons will either have to Deep Strike along the edges(and possably scatter off and be destroyed) or in the center and be nicely clumped up.


and they can always scatter into the Warp Quake zone and mishap anyway.

Yuber wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:I play GK's all the time with my deamons I use fateweaver, bloodthirster, bloodcrushers, Pinks and Bloodletters and have no problem with them. Just make sure you keep your army as close to fateweaver as possible, let the bloodcrushers do most of the work have bloodletters take out the troops hanging around also use BOT.

This is quite an inspiration. Can you post batreps?

I have posted one I will try to post more.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/374932.page



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rubicant99 wrote:I thought warp quake was 12" range? (codex at home)

You are correct its only 12"


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Remember bloodletters, bloodcrushers, have power weapons GK’s have power armor AKA butter, and if he plays terms all the better low model count make him make a ton of invulnerable saves. Squads will be taken off the board each turn if you plan it correct.
With deamons its important to understand you are going to get shot a lot and I do mean a lot most players will focus fire on the fateweaver, let them. Once you have more than ½ his army gone start to spread your army away from fateweaver there is not much he is going to do if you have planned it all correctly.