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Question answered... see final-ish list below!

i think 4+1 is fully allowed. You have then upgraded one of the models to the changeling, and still follow min squad size of 5

Cant see any problems there. What should be the problem?

Nice list btw!

Reposted all fixed up below.

As you already know, the list looks solid. My only question is why the mix mash with the DPs? I think all Tzeentch princes would do you better.


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Also Master of Sorcery is not needed with your Tzeentch Prince he is a MC, he can shoot both his weapons regardless, MOS is needed when you buy a third spell/attack.

3 Daemon Princes of Tzeentch with Iron hide, bolt and gaze. 190 A piece. You got the room for it. Doing so will give you 30 spare points, could bring in a couple more plaguebearers.

Nice call on the MoS.

I'm a big fan of my DP setup.

The nurgle prince stands toe-to-toe with other MC's, and tar pits blobs/hordes with his high T

The Khorne prince is pricey, but he's a jack of all trades. He tears open armor. He fights walkers. He supports the assault.

And the Tzeench prince... is a Tzeench prince.

What to do with that 10 points now though... (from the MoS)


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Oh. Ezpz. Unholy Might on one model of fiends.


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Also, not a huge fan of Iron Hide on Tzeench princes. 30 points for a breakable 3+ when they already have 4++? Not my cup of tea.




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All fixed.

Counting Fateweaver I have 5 bolts. I think the Khorne prince will do more for medium/heavy armor opening than a few more bolts will for light armor. I played against IG tonight and things went extremely well.

2500(2500) Daemons

==HQ==
Fateweaver 333

Bloodthirster 275
Unholy Might, Blessings

==Elites==
6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Fiends of Slaanesh 180
Unholy Might

==Fast Attack==
7x Screamers of Tzeench 112

==Troops==
4x Pink Horrors 100
Bolt
1x The Changeling

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Plaguebearers 75

5x Plaguebearers 75

==Heavy Support==
Daemon Prince 215
MoK, Wings, Might, Iron Hide, Blessings

Daemon Prince 215
MoN, Wings, Iron Hide, Cloud, Noxious Touch

Daemon Prince 160
MoT,Gaze, Bolt

Fair enough.

Thanks for the help. I think I've got something really nasty here.

Played a few test games... going to have to make some changes.

Lets hear it.

So. Like I said. I've played a few test games. Some went monumentally well. Some went... bad. But loss is good, because without failure, there is no learning or growing.

The problems I had were:

1. Fateweaver's 6" requirement puts him on the front lines. As a result, he's vulnerable to assault.

2. Pink Horror's Bolts are inaccurate.

3. Slow Bloodcrushers are slow.

4. A bloodthirster can only kill so many Boyz / Guardsmen a turn. I'm suceptible to tarpitting.

I honestly didn't know what to do about it, and was considering dropping the Nurgle Prince for another Tzeentch prince, but I just find them to be a really expensive platform for a single str8 ap1 shot.

Actually... I'm 20 minutes from home. Full AB re-write when I get home. I have a feeling that I can field at least 2 more crushers if I streamline this a little.

I stumbled upon DarkCorsairs (Daemon play, wrecked faces at The Grim Open) newest 1750 list (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/378145.page) and it was like a lightbulb turned on.

So I've dropped the Bloodthirster for a Tzherald + The Masque. With the leftover points I bought Aura of Decay for the nurgle prince. This fixes... everything!

1. The Masque can push dedicated assault units away from Fateweaver.

2. The Tzeentch Chariot is highly mobile, accurate and a steal compared to a Daemon Prince with similar mobility and firepower. It's terribad in assault, but who cares. I have tons of assaultyness for the enemy to worry about.

3. The Masque provides "speed" for the Bloodcrushers by moving their targets closer. Since it's a shooting attack, she can start doing this on turn 1. It effectively grants FoF to the bloodcrushers... If the crushers run 1d6 on turn 2, and she moves their targets closer in T1&2's shooting phase, the crushers effective assault range on T2 is 3d6+12. Massive.

4. Aura of Decay helps with Hordes, and is on my Daemon most suited for wading through them. Win-win. Tzherald brings another Breath of Chaos, double win.

I do have 15 points left over. I'm not against dropping the Fiend's Unholy might and dropping to 6 screamers. That gives 41 points to play with. 7th Crusher for one squad? Or do I drop Aura of Decay for Breath of Chaos on the Nurgle prince? Drop a screamer and I get both! Ooooh decisions.

2500(2485) Daemons

==HQ==
Fateweaver 333

The Masque 100

Herald of Tzeentch 130
Bolt, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery, Chariot [i]

==Elites==
6x Bloodcrushers 280
[i]Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Fiends of Slaanesh 180
Unholy Might

==Fast Attack==
7x Screamers of Tzeench 112

==Troops==
4x Pink Horrors 100
Bolt
1x The Changeling

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Plaguebearers 75

5x Plaguebearers 75

==Heavy Support==
Daemon Prince 215
MoK, Wings, Might, Iron Hide, Blessings

Daemon Prince 215
MoN, Wings, Iron Hide, Cloud, Noxious Touch, Aura of Decay

Daemon Prince 160
MoT,Gaze, Bolt

I kind of want to expand to 3 squads of Plaguebearers.... Ditch the no-changeling Horror squad, take another squad of 5 Plagues + Breath of Chaos for the nurgle prince........ thinking about it.

The new list looks good, I would be all for you switching out horrors for more plaguebearers. They are just perfect in these kinds of lists (fatecrusher) just drop them on objectives and leave them there and use the rest of your army to kill.

"4. A bloodthirster can only kill so many Boyz / Guardsmen a turn. I'm suceptible to tarpitting."


You are using him wrong. Dreadnaughts which will tear apart your army are his target. He is not meant to jump into CC with large squads.

Cottonjaw wrote:
2500(2485) Daemons

==HQ==
Fateweaver 333

The Masque 100

Herald of Tzeentch 130
Bolt, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery, Chariot [i]

I like it. Masque is very useful and hard to kill with a Fatecrusher, and is a great 100 point upgrade to have. No experience with the Herald, but looks like it'll add some much needed speed and last minute contesting.

==Elites==
6x Bloodcrushers 280
[i]Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Fiends of Slaanesh 180
Unholy Might

Fiends are good, once again for that speed. One thing to think about though is that a 6 man BC squad will be very hard to land, and then will make your other models landing near by more likely to mishap by landing on them. I typically run squads of 5 or less, although I think 5 is the magic number. 6 could work though. Keep this.

==Fast Attack==
7x Screamers of Tzeench 112

Even with Fateweaver, these will die quite easily. They're only really worth it against Land Raiders, and then they will be your opponent's primary target. I prefer to use multi-assaults from bloodcrushers and using the Princes for anti-tank. Only 7 attacks (assuming they're still at full strength) that will typically need 4s or 6s to hit, and then you don't get the AP1 bonus...they're also quite allergic to bolter fire. I find that if I really need to kill that landraider, an MC or 2 usually does it.

==Troops==
4x Pink Horrors 100
Bolt
1x The Changeling

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Pink Horrors 95
Bolt

5x Plaguebearers 75

5x Plaguebearers 75

MSU Horrors aren't particularly good for their points. With BS 3, they won't be hitting much, and then S8 will have trouble penning most armor besides AV11. I would drop them in favor of more plaguebearers, but keep the Changeling squad.

==Heavy Support==
Daemon Prince 215
MoK, Wings, Might, Iron Hide, Blessings

Daemon Prince 215
MoN, Wings, Iron Hide, Cloud, Noxious Touch, Aura of Decay

Daemon Prince 160
MoT,Gaze, Bolt

I would rather see another MoN prince instead of the MoK one, but that's just me. I would say overall, drop the Screamers and the 2 non-changeling horror units, and grab 3 more MSU plaguebearer squads. In 2500 points, you're going to need those extra troops. I would then use the leftover points to change the MoT prince to either another MoK one or a MoN one (upgrades exactly as your other ones have). Then with the last 35 points, I would drop an instrument from one of the crusher squads and then grab an extra bloodcrusher.

Overall, it's a good list. Take all my comments with a pinch of salt as 2500 is quite outside my comfort range (I prefer anywhere between 1500 and 2000, preferably 1750), but I think it should do well.

Hope that helped

The small squads of horrors are just too easy to kill, their only real goal is to score, you would be better off with all pb except for the changlings squad. You then drop them far from any danger a casuaully walk up to any objectives while your opponent is tied up with your 10-11 units they are worried about.

I'm kind of married to the Screamers. I happen to know that there is at least 1 list /w 3 Landraiders (a friend of mine) attending.

I went a slightly different route. I love plaguebearers. Stick em in cover on an objective, and go to ground, viola, 3+ /w FNP! But.. they aren't doing very much laying on the floor like that. So.. Bloodletters! The loads of power weapons they bring to the table is nasty, and definitely would help in the elimination of heavy infantry.

I'm going to keep the Tzeentch prince, especially after deleting horrors. I need to threaten transports early so my MC's and Crushers don't have to open their own cans to get charged by what's inside.

I'm going to keep the Khorne prince, and not convert him to a Nurgle prince. Blessings of the Blood God is great against all the nutzo psykers that are running around, and I expect to see Grey Knights in scores.

Here's what I got:

2500(2498) Daemons

==HQ==
Fateweaver 333

The Masque 100

Herald of Tzeentch 130
Bolt, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery, Chariot

==Elites==
6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Bloodcrushers 280
Icon, Fury, Instrument

6x Fiends of Slaanesh 190
Unholy Might

==Fast Attack==
6x Screamers of Tzeench 96

==Troops==
4x Pink Horrors 100
Bolt
1x The Changeling

9x Bloodletters

5x Plaguebearers 75

5x Plaguebearers 75

5x Plaguebearers 75

==Heavy Support==
Daemon Prince 215
MoK, Wings, Might, Iron Hide, Blessings

Daemon Prince 215
MoN, Wings, Iron Hide, Cloud, Noxious Touch, Breath of Chaos

Daemon Prince 160
MoT,Gaze, Bolt

3 Land raiders? Better bring a BT.

Ugh.. I know.

I really want the BT in the list, but I just think The Masque + Tzeentch chariot are way more versitile. I have plenty of killing power in my princes, the crushers and the fiends. The BT is nasty, and BotBG is awesome, but I just can't ignore the versatility and list synergy that The Masque provides, and it allows me to take an additional, accurate source of Str8 + amazing flamer template, without sacrificing a heavy support choice to a Tzeentch prince (one of my least favorite configurations).

The khorne prince and Screamers should be enough, IF I happen to draw against my friend and his 3 LR. In general though, the most rear armor 14 I expect to see is 1 per game at the absolute maximum (since I'll be assaulting most vehicles to death, so yay attacking rear armor)

Do any other races vehicles have wargear similar to Flechette dischargers on Tau vehicles (causes wounds to units assaulting the vehicle) ? If someone gets scrappy, that could be a problem.

I played a game today against IG. Similar list to the IG that tore me apart the other weekend, and things went fantastic. Tabled him at the top of turn 4. This guy wasn't as good of a player as the guy who made me decide to make all these players, but it was still a good test of the list.

I really need to get a second chance against the 'nids that beat me, since I'm riding in the same car as that guy to 'Ard Boyz more than likely.

Against the IG I ran my Tzerald and Screamers up each board edge, and left the bulk of my forces in the center (lots of LOS blocking terrain). I stole the initiative so he had to shoot in the dark, which helped a lot. What -really- helped, was being able to pull his stuff toward me with The Masque. I deepstruck fairly aggressively, and was able to get a 2nd turn charge off ( just barely) with my Bloodcrushers, because his squad was forced forward (after Fateweaver opened their ride up with bolt).

Is the list perfect yet? No. But it's getting to be fairly nasty. More playtesting and probably more modifications to come!

The changes gets two thumbs up from me, the blood letters do give you some additional flexability that the bearers wouldn't, good luck.