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So I am going for a close combat based lizardman army, with about 40 saurus, alot of cavalry, a stegadon and a cold one carnosaur.

But I feel I will have trouble taking on my friends orcs and goblins. We haven't played yet-I am getting a carnosaur next week-Bet he keeps bragging about how his basic orcs strike at S6 because of their weapons, and how they have T5, , and how their save and initiative is better, and how Grimgor Ironhide is unstoppable (This last one has been proved a load of gak)

So right now I see-Bigger, tougher, stronger, and more attacks hitting and destroying me before I get a chance to react.

I was wondering how much of this is actually legit, how I am to take on these green fools, and what advantages the armies of Lustria have agiants these ugly little runts..

Lizardmen get a lot of good units and great gear.

Take a look at GW's web page for the orc units. GW posts the statlines online. Hint, they are not S6 or T5.
Black Orcs are bigger, and faster, but not tougher, and they are naked.
Saurus have better armor.

In a grind fest, lizardmen have a huge edge with salamanders being able to hose big blocks.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Lizardmen get a lot of good units and great gear.

Take a look at GW's web page for the orc units. GW posts the statlines online. Hint, they are not S6 or T5.
Black Orcs are bigger, and faster, but not tougher, and they are naked.
Saurus have better armor.

In a grind fest, lizardmen have a huge edge with salamanders being able to hose big blocks.

-Matt

GW does not have the stats posted fo the OnG oddly enough

Also dont be afraid to mess us orcs up with a Slan....

Basic orcs with S6, T5? What orcs does he have orcs on steroids? trust me saurus will easily eat up orcs, orcs are best on the first turn of combat.

He says theyre like 4 normally and then have +2 cos of weaponary..

DrownedRat117 wrote:He says theyre like 4 normally and then have +2 cos of weaponary..

On the first round combat orcs have +1 strength because of choppa rule. but I still don't understand the T5 how does he explain that? they are T4

He simply says
"My orcs always hit on S6!"
"My orcs are tougher than your troops!"

Okay I think he is trying to trick you. Basic orcs are S3 and in the first round of combat they are strength 4 after that they are S3 untill the start of a new combat. Orc big 'uns are strength 4 meaning that they are S5 at the first round of combat. They are both T4. If you are not sure or if he does it again just ask to look at their stats in the army book.

Basic orcs are S3, when using choppas in the first round of combat they are S4.
Big Uns (more expensive elites, one per army) are S4, S5 with choppas.
Black Orcs are also S4, and can use great weapons, going to S7 with the choppa rule. However Black Orcs are special choice troops.
All orcs except heroes and lords are T4, and only black orcs have heavy armour.
Orcs also have lower leadership (7 to your 8), and your Cold Blooded rule means that your dudes are going to hang on.
You have S4, same as him, but more attacks, a better save, and better leadership. On the other hand your troops are more expensive.
In short, your friend is just bragging, have a look at his book, compare it to yours, you'll soon see the truth.

Yeah, there are no T5 basic nor elite or rare orks available.

Here is the worst case scenario that I have seen for Orcs:

40 Savage Orc Bigguns with a Savage Shaman bearing the Shrunken Head. This means the unit has:

50 WS4, S5 attacks in the first round of combat.
T4
a 5+ ward save

What you need to do to beat it is:

Lore of Shadows (debuff I and hit it with Pit, or lower its T or S values)
Have a higher I character kill the Shaman (so the rest of the unit can kill the savages with "merely" a 6+ ward in your way)
Shoot it from range.
Hold it up for a turn (be steadfast) to absorb the S5, then countercharge the Lilyhammering baJEEZUS out of it.

Do not:
Think that a 25 model block can "anvil" it.
Think that a 40 model horde can "anvil" it.
Engage it without thinning the ranks SOMEHOW before it gets to you.

Do the math on these engagements, figure out how much damage your stego will do. Likely it will be the key to stopping big hordes. It will charge in, not take sufficient wounds to die/break, then you will counter charge FTW.

Beware of Mangler Squigs. Shoot them before they hit you and do not let them hit you with your butt to the table edge, you'll take 5d6 s6 AP hits. That will put paid to you.

The basic spell in lore of heavens does wonders to death stars.
-1 to hit (shooting and melee) and -1 leadership is a deadly combination. Only needing a 7 means that you can reliably cast successfully with only 2 dice.

-Matt

Go with a Slann, pick lores that have spells that have the pass an I test or die and use it, Orcs I sucks at 2. Force him to take an I test and each model affected has a 4 in 6 chance of dying. Shadow looks pretty good with Pit of Shades and some of the other hexes to debuff his Orcs.

Hargus56 wrote:Go with a Slann, pick lores that have spells that have the pass an I test or die and use it, Orcs I sucks at 2. Force him to take an I test and each model affected has a 4 in 6 chance of dying. Shadow looks pretty good with Pit of Shades and some of the other hexes to debuff his Orcs.

Untill it scatters on your Sarus....and you cry when you see your I

Possible. You place it on the middle of the orc unit and it's generally a 1/4 chance it may come back to your saurus or use skinks to tarpit then use pit of shades.

Okay, as others have mentioned. Unless he runs orks on steriods those stats are wrong. Get blocks of 40+ rank and file warriors, flank with either skinks or salamanders, then use your cav to counter charge. Oh and slaan is is golden against hordes

Dont believe it till you read it. Hes either getting overhyped or cheating you. That said orc units can be tough combatants. But saurus warriors in large blocks and a carnosaur should mince them up nicely. DO take even a lvl 2 wizard though as you need a little magic/antimagic.

He's almost right on the whole Grimgor is unstoppable. By almost, I mean, you'll have a tough time killing him in combat, and he's immune to psychology. That being said, you'll either be forced to engage him, or watch where he puts his Black Orcs (in case he has 1 unit) and deploy everything away from it. If he puts them in the middle, heavy up on one/both flanks, making him march to get to you while you kill his army. Once you get into combat with him, put as many attacks as possible on his unit. He strikes first at WS8, S7 and hates everybody. He also has I5, so he'll be rerolling to hit in most rounds after the first. And on top of that, he grants hatred of everybody to his unit and an extra weapon skill.

Old blood on cold one, glittering scales, aura of quetzl, fencers blades.
You get 6 S5 attacks at WS10, and you are -2 to be hit.
That guy can tie up grimgor for awhile.

If you've got a few skink priests, the lore of heavens default spell gives an enemy -1 to hit, and -1 leadership. That's one of the best spells in the game. Two of those makes your Cav nearly unkillable and gives you a good shot at breaking units that are even steadfast.

Against opponents that like to field few, but high point units, it's exceptional. It really pairs will with cav (who struggle with steadfast).

-Matt

He might be talking about black orcs having the ability to use a two handed weapon. That would make them str 6 on every round of combat (and str 7 on the first round)

If he gives them shields they can save on a 4+ which might be what he views as `tougher`.

Overall though it sounds like hes trying to get into your head. Dont let him.

HawaiiMatt wrote:The basic spell in lore of heavens does wonders to death stars.
-1 to hit (shooting and melee) and -1 leadership is a deadly combination. Only needing a 7 means that you can reliably cast successfully with only 2 dice.

-Matt

Seconding this. I've gotten Lore of Heavens twice with my Hat-skaven, and never has it disappointed me. The "re-roll all your 6's" hex is pretty fantastic as well.

All have said it, but take it from an Orcs & Goblins player. Those stats are totally wrong. At best, he will have one unit with stats such as that (Big 'Uns) and also a unit of Black Orcs (special). He's just bragging. You have equal chances. I find that poisoned shots hurt quite a bit against my troops and Slaan magic is also bad for me. Of course, don't underestimate big blocks of either Orcs or Goblins as they can dish out dozens of attacks. Also keep an eye for Goblin magic...that can hurt you a lot. Remember, you also have a low Initiative, and the Goblin's Curse of da Bad Moon can totally wipe you out. Good luck!