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As above, what should I get for a (from scratch) possible new chaos sm army

Edit: 1000 points, competitive, and no preferably a tzeentch based army

P.s thanks for the quick reply

You need to give more info....

For a start, what points level?
Secondly, competitive or friendly/fluffy
Then do you want to be legion specific, run a specific army type (Mech, Rhino Rush, MC/Walker spam, Daemon Bomb, 2 Lash Princes, 9 Oblits etc etc)

welcome to dakka for firsts

if your looking for competitive and possibly best options for csm try some of these units


Khorne berserkers followed by a rhino to cover their hides

Plague marines also followed by a rhino

and a sorcerer possibly the Lucius blister bcuz of the slaanesh mark for the lash power


if your not entirely sure where to start with just start with a box of csm

its very user friendly and has lots of components to mix-match


to extend a csm army i would recommend a box of terminators along with a land raider they are easily the best elite choice in the codex

then acquire some obliterators or havocs they both do the same function but imo its personal choice

Terminators are arguable. Chosen can be really good, or bad, as can terminators. Personally I would rather take chosen any day of the week.

In reality the chaos codex has some of the best choices, we really don't have many 'weak' units, just ones that either require a great deal of finesse, or are situational. Possessed, Bikes, and some of the characters (like Bile) are in this category.

in general though, we have some great picks. It's pretty hard to go wrong, really.

I dislike writing lists for other people though. Write up your own list, and I will gladly look through and tell you what will work well and what won't, but I'm not going to give you a list and say 'use this' as it takes away from your own style or what you might end up liking.

Are thousand sons any good? and thanks again for the reponses

Edit: also considering ahrimin (or however you spell it)

Chuck Norris wrote:Are thousand sons any good? and thanks again for the reponses

Edit: also considering ahrimin (or however yooooou spell it)

Lurk the other lists posted. What dominates?

Thousend sons and plague marines?

Chuck Norris wrote:Thousend sons and plague marines?

To be honest, Any of the cult troops can be used effectively. Thousand sons less than others because of points cost.
Easily the best though, are the Plague marines. If you want a competitive army, then this simple guidline will help.

HQ
At this points level, Daemon princes own. If you are going to take any though, take 2 for target saturation.

ELITES
TBH, You don't need any of these.

TROOPS
Plague marines in rhino's with with either plasma or melta guns. Champion with power fist.
Noise marines. I've seen a lot of debate about these about builds, so I'll give you both. Take a 9-10 man squad, all with sonic blasters, Blast master and champ. Or, take a 5 man squad with blast master.
Khorne berserkers. Not as good as plague marine unfortunately.

FAST ATTACK
Not needed.

HEAVY SUPPORT
LOTS of Obliterators. These guys own.

Hope that helps!

Thanks

woodbok wrote:

Chuck Norris wrote:Thousend sons and plague marines?

Khorne berserkers. Not as good as plague marine unfortunately.

Khorne Berzerkers not being as good as plague marines? Hm.

That depends entierly on the play-style and mission. Plague Marines are indeed very strong with their high toughness and FNP, but... Every single Berzerker has 4 S5 attacks on the charge, which can make a normal-sized squad of Berzerkers throw out a whole lot of punishment against pretty much anything from Orks and Tyranids to Terminators. With an Aspiring champion with a Power Fist, they can bring down vehicles, even if not from afar.

Thousand Sons may appear dull at first glance, having no weapon options at all. But they may walk and fire, and do so with bolters, which (as if not deadly enough already) ignore the armour saves on anything short of terminators. And with a Sorceror to lead them, which has the Bolt of Change, they too can pick out vehicles. The 'difference' between Thousand Sons and Plague Marines when it comes to durability, is that whilst T5, Power Armor and FNP indeed will make you shrug off pretty much anything, the Thousand Sons only have an invulnerable save upon their power armor, which only benefits them against anything with AP3 or lower (as far as I've understood it, as you can't roll for both Armor Save and Invulnerable Save?)

Plague Marines should definately pick a Melta IMHO, they don't really lack as much anti-infantry that it's worth picking a flamer over a melta. The melta gives them a chance to take out enemy vehicles as well as an almost certain kill of a terminator (unless you keep missing, of course).

As for Noise Marines? I'm not going to speak on that point, I've never given them a proper look, mainly because I personally never understood why they'd want a +1 initiative comparing to a Berzerker's +1 attack and furious charge, and their weaponry is for fire-fighting, not melee.

Chuck Norris wrote:Thousend sons and plague marines?

Alot of people play Plauge Marines and for good reason. They have FnP, they can shoot plasmas and not have to worry so much about "gets hot", and they have defensive grenades (and they're very fun to make/paint). So if I were starting and wanting a competitive army Id buy like 2 packs of CSM and some green stuff and make them look all nurgled out. and then I'd get 2 rhinos for them and nurgle them up with some green stuff aswell and then buy one of the new DPs and nurgle that up as well, becuase you probably want to run that as a MoN, WT, wings DP. which is pretty much the best DP (depending on play style). Also you dont need to drop 50 on terminators, CSMs kind are really bad in comparision to loyalists, the only real way to run terminators decently (other than dropping a redicouls amount of points and buying them crazy upgrades and a LR) is to do Termi-cide. AkA 3 termis with combi meltas and deep strike in behinde enemy vehicles. thats one good way to run them, and really the only way I ever run them if I choose to even run them, lol.

Thousand Sons are a decent CSM troop, but when you could be feilding Plauges or zerkers over them, they kinda start to look like they arnt that competitive. Which I guess they still are a decently competitive army, but plauge and zerker really just blow them out of the water for how effective they are.

Though, Thousand Sons are hell for SM players who pretty much rely on having Power Armor everywhere to keep them safe.

Riffzor wrote:Though, Thousand Sons are hell for SM players who pretty much rely on having Power Armor everywhere to keep them safe.

Yeah, especially for armies like Black Templar swarms or nidzilla lists or really anything spamming mass amounts of 3+ saves. So if your dead set on Thousand Sons theres a few occasions where you will just DESTROY some armies, but for the most part your just gonna have a pretty decent army with them, I'd still say definetly go with a mostly Nurgle themed army if you truely want a competitive list.

Yeah, Nurgle is probably a better all-around competive army compared to Tzeentch. IMHO it feels as if GW didn't really do a proper job on Thousand Son players in the last codex, there should be more options of giving Inferno Bolts to Terminators and stuff, all they get is an increased invulnerable save (which is good, but not as fun as it would be with Inferno Bolts).

Looks Infected wrote:
to extend a csm army i would recommend a box of terminators along with a land raider they are easily the best elite choice in the codex

Only if you don't play Chaos. They can be used & to great effect in the right pts games, but are far from "The best elite choice in the codex". I'm w/ Zephyr on this one, I take Chosen in every game; my terminators got converted into Oblits.

Thousand Sons are a good choice & are less expensive than the same # of PM's. If you have 10 PM's w/ Asp Champ/Fist & 2 meltaguns & 9 TS's & Sorc (required) w/ Doombolt, then the TS squad is actually 13 pts cheaper. You do get more survivability from PM's in a manner of speaking, but if a PM gets blasted by a lascannon, you just pick it up, if a TS gets hit from the same weapon, it @ least gets an invuln. You can make competetive lists based on a Tzeentch theme, it will just take some finesse & some forethought. We have some of the best troop options in the codex, don't let the TS's blind you to the other options. Even NM's can be used effectively, most people just don't bother as we have better anti-infantry units around.

DP's are always solid & I've used all but the Khorne DP to great effect. You'll usually get more mileage out of a DP than a Sorc w/ the same mark & psychic power, but some people swear by their Sorc's. Again, I've used both & prefer the DP's.

If you run a primarily Tzeentch themed, I would still suggest @ least one squad of Berzerkers for assaults/counterassaults as that is the glaring weakness of a Tzeentch list.

~Vryce

Riffzor wrote:Yeah, Nurgle is probably a better all-around competive army compared to Tzeentch. IMHO it feels as if GW didn't really do a proper job on Thousand Son players in the last codex, there should be more options of giving Inferno Bolts to Terminators and stuff, all they get is an increased invulnerable save (which is good, but not as fun as it would be with Inferno Bolts).

Yeah they could have done so much more with the marks and fluff to it and everything, kind of a let down with that codex, but I'm content with the way it turned out atleast it wasnt like a super OP codex like most of the new 5th editions (SW, IG, BA, DE) lol.

B-DWAGGG wrote:

Riffzor wrote:Yeah, Nurgle is probably a better all-around competive army compared to Tzeentch. IMHO it feels as if GW didn't really do a proper job on Thousand Son players in the last codex, there should be more options of giving Inferno Bolts to Terminators and stuff, all they get is an increased invulnerable save (which is good, but not as fun as it would be with Inferno Bolts).

Yeah they could have done so much more with the marks and fluff to it and everything, kind of a let down with that codex, but I'm content with the way it turned out atleast it wasnt like a super OP codex like most of the new 5th editions (SW, IG, BA, DE) lol.

... DE's still wound Plague Marines, and even Plague Marine bikers on 4+. How evil.

Also a shame you don't get FNP on Terminators dedicated to Nurgle. -That- would be fun.

... Or furious charge on Khorne Terminators. (Lightnin' Clawzzz Blud Frenzeih!)

Riffzor wrote:

B-DWAGGG wrote:

Riffzor wrote:Yeah, Nurgle is probably a better all-around competive army compared to Tzeentch. IMHO it feels as if GW didn't really do a proper job on Thousand Son players in the last codex, there should be more options of giving Inferno Bolts to Terminators and stuff, all they get is an increased invulnerable save (which is good, but not as fun as it would be with Inferno Bolts).

Yeah they could have done so much more with the marks and fluff to it and everything, kind of a let down with that codex, but I'm content with the way it turned out atleast it wasnt like a super OP codex like most of the new 5th editions (SW, IG, BA, DE) lol.

... DE's still wound Plague Marines, and even Plague Marine bikers on 4+. How evil.

Also a shame you don't get FNP on Terminators dedicated to Nurgle. -That- would be fun.

... Or furious charge on Khorne Terminators. (Lightnin' Clawzzz Blud Frenzeih!)

Lol, one of my friends always complained about Plauge Marines being able to be wounded by poision; "They are living diseases, why the $%^%^ would poison hurt them!?".

Man, termis having FnP, the thing dreams are made of <3 lol.

If only the authors would have applied more of the fluff and basic reasoning to the chaos codex lol. We would have been the new space wolves lol.

B-DWAGGG wrote:

Man, termis having FnP, the thing dreams are made of <3 lol.

If only the authors would have applied more of the fluff and basic reasoning to the chaos codex lol. We would have been the new space wolves lol.

*cough* you mean like grey knight paladins? *cough*
Fluff application is difficult in this game. I'm sure everyone here has discussed it at least once.
'Dear [Insert Emperor or Chaos God here], there's a meltablast coming straight at me? Good thing I'm right behind this bush! '

I am fairly happy with the current codex, I just wish we could start getting either some chapter codices (Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Vanilla -> Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperors Children, Black Legion) Etc.
But as it is, I believe our codex (excluding character options) can be much more powerful than the vanilla loyalist codex. Wishlisting will only get you so far, so find what works in the codex we have and stick with it. For me that means DPs, Chosen, Standard troops and Noise Marines, Raptors, and Meltagun-toting Havocs.

I like running CSM around the 1500 point mark, and for my own personal fluff preferences, I try to run one of each of the cult squads. I've got a lot of experience with each one and I don't find them at all lacking... though the point costs are a bit hefty considering the lack of customization.

The Plague Marines stand out as being the MVP objective holders, while the Berserkers and Noise Marines are both really good at aggression; kb in assault, noise marines in shooting. The thousand sons usually become a utility force, locked in a rhino until I need them to tie up an enemy squad for a while. The aspiring sorcerer just usually ends up as a host for my greater summoned demon; but when he pulls of GoC it's wonderful.

Like most CSM players, I love the crap out of obliterators and always use at least 3.

Since I'm doing a campaign at a games workshp were I live soon, I ordered some beserkers and I have a daemon prince as well. I would have got thousend sons (and will) but I wanted to get stuff soon so I got beserkers (2 boxes)