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LighthouseM wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I don't think it's badly designed. I think it's no worse than a lot of the craziness that goes on in 40k.

Not in terms of craziness...

There are just much simpler ways of handling this sort of mechanic that doesn't include additional die rolls.

"On a successful cover save result of 6..."

Uhhuh. Yeah, it's the additional dice roll that needs to be simplified/expounded upon.

 Kanluwen wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I don't think it's badly designed. I think it's no worse than a lot of the craziness that goes on in 40k.

You don't think something which is basically negligible for infantry but deadly to vehicles is badly designed?

People seem to be okay with Grav and it is similarly lopsided in how effective it is.

Grav is based upon the armor value of the target and can be just as effective against heavy infantry and vehicles.

This rule is just dumb.


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 Kriswall wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I don't think it's badly designed. I think it's no worse than a lot of the craziness that goes on in 40k.

You don't think something which is basically negligible for infantry but deadly to vehicles is badly designed?

Kind of reminds me of the shield technology from Dune. "The slow blade penetrates."

Haywire is basically negligible for Infantry, but deadly to vehicles. That doesn't mean Haywire is badly designed. This thing might be designed to give vehicles pause.

You've read the fluff part for it, right?

It's not. It literally just bad because of the wording. Auto-Glancing Hits is terrible writing.

Can't you always just not shoot at the units on the Tidewall with vehicles? Looking at pictures of the wall, it doesn't seem to be big enough to house any real AT threats (unless there's a way to squeeze Broadsides on there). Anything with AV11 or better can probably just ignore whatever is on there. The only real AT weapon present on it is the Railgun, but that's gonna have the same problems as a Hammerhead; a single S10 shot simply is not a reliable form of AT, even with twin-linked and tank hunter.

This wall is gonna murder your vehicles? (It won't mind you as the odds are being greatly overplayed in this thread, you need to make a successful cover save, then for each cover save made you roll a d6 and on a 6 it gets reflected). Then just don't shoot at units on the wall with your vehicles, it's that simple. Using Land Raiders? Just drive up to the wall, disembark your melee beatstick inside, and charge over the wall. Or, you know, just drive AROUND the wall. It can move 6" a turn yes, but unless the Tau player uses it to castle up in a corner (at which point you just ignore him and play the objectives and win) there will always be a way around the Tidewall to hit units from behind. And of course barrage and ignore cover are still things in this game.

Is the Tidewall good? Maybe, I'm not gonna make that call until I pick mine up and try it out, see what I can do with it. Is it OP? Hell no, it's a fortification with a couple gimmicks, one of which is incredibly unlikely to actually do anything but may result in hilariously causing a Land Raider to kill itself. For 265 points, this thing is fine.

The sheer fact that it cant go over terrain (must move in open terrain) makes me think its a red herring to your list. Sounds broken as balls, but the reflect thing is unlikely and its movement SHOULDNT do more than shimmy around if you actually play with terrain that doesnt favor static gunlines with a clear shot of the entire battlefield.

Though i find it funny it has no profile to be destroyed, outside the gun of course.

its a bit silly that the sheild makes things like bolters able to glance out land raiders...

should have just said at the str of the gun being shot, or set it at a set str value.

also, its BUT LOADS of dice as its not "on a sucessfull cover save of 6" it is RAW worded as for every single sucessfull cover save, you then roll an additional D6 and on a 6 it reflects.

Glad I still have all this ignores cover stuff around because of eldar.

 Red Corsair wrote:
The wall looks dope but is seriously over rated. I advise people that think it is good to pick up stronghold assault, there are FAR better options for less points that you can always use the wall parts as. If you want a save and a better view of the table for your storm surge just save 165 pts and get a skyshield for example. It's a 4+ invuln save and a 4" boost in height lol.

Yes, I totally agree. I love the Tidewall, and its rules are *cool*, but most of the fortifications in Stronghold Assault are very strong, and cheaper, points-wise. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of Fortress of Redemption.

Also: Skyshield is awesome! Most people do not realize, looking at it in a photo, that this is a 4++ 75 point fortification that is significantly larger than a 1'x1' GAME TILE. You can deploy it anywhere on your half of the table (like tidewall), including encroaching or nearly wholly on your enemy's half. It's not quite 4" height boost, though, I think, though it comes close. Definitely a plus to give Stormsurge or Ta'unar a booster seat!

I think the "Tidewall can move" is not really a thing in most competitive games. There is enough terrain on the field that sure, it can move, but not enough to matter. Where that will excel is in scenario games, where you specifically create a path for Tidewall to advance, and perhaps play the game in the long direction of the table.

Even if the game rules would be balls, I'd still get one to make a display board with , it just look pretty cool tbh.

First codex leaks are out. NERFS FOR EVERYONE!!!! That and still an 80 point devilfish.

:(

Our formations are going to have to be broken as feth to help us out. I got a very bad feeling about this.

 Gamgee wrote:
First codex leaks are out. NERFS FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Where?

That and still an 80 point devilfish.

Nevermind. I don't have the heart to read more.

The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

Is the iridium armor still one per army?

I want to know the thought process behind the devilfish.

Executive 1 "Why aren't the Devilfish kits selling?"
Executive 2 "Nobody uses them."
Executive 1 "Why don't they use them?"
Executive 2 "The rules are crap."
Executive 1 "I have an idea!"
Executive 2 "stay the course?"
Exectivue 1 "Stay the course"
They both then put in ear plugs and hide under the covers until sales improve.

Figured the burst cannon was just a 6shot variant. Still, 6 shots at BS5 is nothing to scoff at. Then again i would rather give him dual plasmas or an airburster.

Really really sucks he isnt T5 with the coldstar suit and cant get iridium. If he fails a grounding test and then fails a 4++ save, dead.
Still going to use him because hes fun sounding.

 Gamgee wrote:
First codex leaks are out. NERFS FOR EVERYONE!!!! That and still an 80 point devilfish.

Nerfs? Where? The leaks say that nothing will change. I would hardly call that a nerf.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
First codex leaks are out. NERFS FOR EVERYONE!!!! That and still an 80 point devilfish.

Nerfs? Where? The leaks say that nothing will change. I would hardly call that a nerf.

Didn't you know? If a codex isn't on the level of Eldar, it's worthless.

 Gamgee wrote:
The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

Right, so a bunch of stuff is unchanged, a new thing we've known is useless for a week is useless... And you start yelling about nerfs and posting huge crying cartoon animal reaction images?

I mean hell, the Coldstar is just a unit upgrade, it's not very important that it isn't good, just mildly disappointing.

 Gamgee wrote:
The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

Suit commanders are STILL 85pts? And the coldstar thats a silly gimmick is just a silly gimmick? Oh no, the tragedy!

Yes our transport being 80 pts is dumb but really?

Have a coke and a smile and relax.

It's a nerf not being brought up to that level of power. All the factions should be. Either everything has super good stuff or no one does for balance.

Not some people have some and others don't.

Per the tidewall, be interested to see the costs for individual pieces. Is it going to be like the ADL or Wall of Martyrs?

Retailer I use says there are Raven Guard, Tau and even White Scars datacards coming out. Limited Edition is also apparently at 180.

Interested to hear mikhaila's and other's experience, but they also said GW was not expecting the demand for the tidewall due to cost. Thus, alot of their preorders are getting cut as they are not getting enough of them.

Who needs market research?

 Gamgee wrote:
The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

If the rumors are true, we get point costs for the base Commander and point costs for the Devilfish and Pathfinders in the next WD.

We know from previous WD entries (namely, the Breachers) that even where Devilfish are an optional dedicated transport, the point cost was not stated.

Thus, either Pathfinders necessarily come with Devilfish again (...damnit, I sure hope not) or Devilfish are also having their rules previewed in WD.

Honest Question, for which I don't know the answer: When WD has previewed models in the past, have they ever presented the model entirely unchanged?

IF they have presented models unchanged, having the Devilfish's cost (and thus, likely its profile, given the lack of costs in previous Options noted) means little. However, IF they only present models with changes to their rules or new units, THEN it is almost certain that the Devilfish has changed from its previous version.

Would an 80 point devilfish with Sensor Spines and a Disruption Pod default, or with old-school Multitrackers default, or some other combination of existing wargear and/or new options, still not be worth 80 points? Certainly it would be better to start at lower base cost and choose the upgrades we like, but it isn't the same kick in the mouth.

This is all just speculation at this point, though, on both our parts. Let's at LEAST wait until the next WD leak before we sell our army OR claim its place in the latest of codex cheeses.

Me being an IG player, you guys have literally no reason to be sad. At all. You guys are getting all of this new cool stuff. We got a mini dex, a worthless spider pig transport, and an undercosted open topped artillery platform that invalidates 2 of our other heavy support choices in the codex because its so cheap and everything else went up in price. And our tanks suck now. There should not be any whining from tau players at all. You guys have it good.

Devilfish are more trash because we have almost no use for them than anything else. What they are is actually pretty good for the cost. My 'fish rarely die due to 3+ jink and offer a huge mobile wall to get in the way of my opponents and offer tankshock options (yes, it can do that).

Problem is, its almost NEVER advantageous to put firewarriors further than ~8" out from your deployment zone if even that far. Since they cant assault the turn they disembark, they cant even be used as shock troopers to deal with vehicles via EMP grenades.
If they were either Assault for the before mentioned tactic (and Breachers) or werent sealed off so the unit inside could shoot out, you'd probably see them quite a bit.

 Gamgee wrote:
It's a nerf not being brought up to that level of power. All the factions should be. Either everything has super good stuff or no one does for balance.

Not some people have some and others don't.

Or maybe we shouldn't base the power level off of the one codex that is blatantly broken above all others. I'd rather have an outlier than an arms race.

Well, Coldstar is confirmed pretty useless now, unless you want to Macross it up lol.

And Devilfish still being over pointed makes them still a non-starter, unless the Tau can bring formations to get them for free like SM.

So, blurry pics of the detachment from the codex that miss half the info, yet? Bonus points for being in non-english.

 Gamgee wrote:
The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

Pic links or it didn't happen.

 Gamgee wrote:
The next white dwarf of course. They showed off that the commander is 85 points, the cold star has zero additional rules, its burst cannon is 5/5 with 6 shots, and an 80 point devilfish.

Iridium armor is still in at least. Cool right? Right? :(

nope. According to BoLS it directly from the codex

Ah, still sad though. Formations are our last hope to be competitive.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Ah, an update from GW regarding GMCs and shooting (from reddit):

http://i.imgur.com/hy5nXE3.png

Seems like GW will launch FAQs in the future!

It's like... It's like GW actually cares about their game all of a sudden with this balanced Tau release and FAQ promises.

They actually responded regarding the GMC weapon limits? Ive emailed them multiple times before GMC even affected me (since i still kinda want a gargantuan squiggoth lol) because it was such an annoying topic.

Garg Squiggoth has a ton of small arms and pretty much nothing else. If it could only fire 2 guns, why the hell does it have so many lobbas/bigshootas?
Thats why my friends and i always ruled they fire everything, since everything except a Daemon GMC is loaded with small arms and has no rule to fire them as one gun.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Ah, an update from GW regarding GMCs and shooting (from reddit):

http://i.imgur.com/hy5nXE3.png

Seems like GW will launch FAQs in the future!

It's like... It's like GW actually cares about their game all of a sudden with this balanced Tau release and FAQ promises.

Emails from GW about 'upcoming FAQs' are about as reliable as Larry Vela is with rumors.

Let me just write a note in my Battleguide concerning Tau...

-Do not shoot at Tau on wall with anything BUT Incinerators.
-Or Cleansing Flame.

Looks like the box sets have been sold out as well, I guess people *really* wanted that special ethereal lol.