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The forums at eve online are burning with hate today.
Mass demo's at jita, amarr, perimiter, people are trying to crash the servers
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536803&page=10
A leaked internal letter has shown CCP's idea's for the future,
http://www.robbowenproductions.co.uk/Vol%201%20-%20Greed%20is%20Good.pdf
and the player base want no part of it
A dev blog addressed nothing of the points raised.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932
eve burns while CCP watches

Pic's of jita http://i54.tinypic.com/8xu82v.jpg
lvideo of amarr.

Why are they protesting?

CCP is planning to change gameplay to make more money,
And has lied to them for years.
But a memo was leaked.
People want answers
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/jita2000.jpg/
2000 people at jita protest.

*is confused*

What is happening? You've not actually said anything to explain things to people who do not play EVE...

Eve is a game where time is paramount, time to train skills, build ships, ETC.
Paid for by subscriptions.
CCP is trying to introduce micro transactions, selling ships, skill points, standings, for real money ingame.

experience for sale. So it wont matter how long you've trained or worked in game.
Success to the one with the most money.

I liked the devlopers blog though. He just ended up talking about jeans lol



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loki old fart wrote:
Success to the one with the most money.

errrr........So the same as real life then? So the only reason people are protesting is because they found out they wasted so many hundreds of hours, while they could of just bought it?

Eve players are nuts, and the game is a bigger time sink than WoW.

Lmao is all I can say. Look at WOW. Millions available to people with the money, You can essentially buy levels and the company endorses it, yet WOW is still flourishing.

Look at D&D online, and bfme online. Two microtransaction games that are still going strong.

Hell, if people within eve are going to be pissed about a price DECREASE in a lot of goods, then so be it. The company is a company, they need to make money, and this is their choice.

Introducing microtransactions was the last nail in the coffin for me with Everquest 2. I'd played that game for about 5 years but SOE introduced them to attract the asian playerbase and it was the last straw.

I can well understand these folks annoyance. It is a form of 'paying to cheat'.

Micro transactions would make the game easier for new players, and is almost always better for the long term health of a MMORPG. Eve players are very elitist, and the game is more complicated than most MORPG. Every Eve player I know looks down upon other MMORPGs as inferior games because they are less difficult. Being the most difficult game and largest time sink is what sold Eve players on the game, and now it turns out they have given up years of dating, sunlight, and bathing because any noob can buy stuff with micro transactions.

Another point that people don't like, this last expansion (which is not optional) introduced captains quarters.
The graphics were OK, But tended to overheat peoples graphics cards.
Functions were reduced, and if you decide not to load the station, you get a crappy wallpaper and still lost functions.
Not so much an upgrade as downgrade.

And this expansion was supposed to be optional, and the best thing since sliced bread.
It took 3-4 yrs to do it


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CCP started this by releasing sub standard expansions, and not fixing ingame bugs for the last 3yrs.
All the time saying stick with us, "we have everybody working on incarna/walking in stations" and "It will be awesome".
Well it wasn't. And it turns out its just another means to milk the players.


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Cut and pasted from eve forums
The following is a distinct break-down of the issues at hand:

Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View"
Why all the "Rage"?:

Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ.
Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning".
Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP.

Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button.

Issue 2: NeX Prices
Why all the "Rage"?:

Not everyone can access this new content.
MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions.
Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's.
Players feel they are being leached.
Bypassed the CSM.

Community Request: Divide all the prices by at least 10. They will still be expensive and "Exclusive" but more accessible and less laughable.

Issue 3: MT & Fearless
Why all the "Rage"?:

It states MT will be in ALL areas of the EvE Universe.
CCP & CSM agreed Vanity items only.
MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions.
Ignored the CSM.

Community Request: Repeat your promise to keep MT & Nex as Vanity only in EvE Online. Do as you please with WoD & DUST.

Issue 4: CCP Zulu's Blog
Why all the "Rage"?:

It is insulting and de-grading.
"smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous": 4.5 hours overdue deployment, 2+ threadnoughts & 100's of accounts unsubbed, ugly & slow. Anyone? Srsly?
Comparing pixels to RL is MMO suicide (see "SWG NPE" in Google)
"I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns" - No, not a single one of them. (Hense this thread as the message is clearly being lost).
The "F**K You" message that is sends to players.
Ignored the CSM.

Community Request: Do NOT insult your customers like this ever again. Please speak clearly. Call spades spades. Answer our questions. Address our issues. But not like this.

Issue 5: Captains Quarters
Why all the "Rage"?:

Not "optional".
Not finished.
Over heating video-cards.
Avatars look like they have been beaten with baseball bats.
"Shown the door" when it is turned off (This seriously isn't funny).
Broken, Ugly & Slow.
Mountains of player feedback in the testing forum ignored.
Ignored the CSM.

Community Request: Release finished expansions, do it late if nessesary. The last few expansions (bar this one) have been "good", and Team BFF and 1000's paper cuts was really making a difference to the players. Continue like that, not like this.

Issue 6: Broken & Stealth Changed functionality
Why all the "Rage"?:

Key mechanics (probing) were changed dramatically without warning.
Boosters & Implants were severely broken.
Show info windows scroll-bars didn't work.
Drones, missiles & probes werent getting any bonuses.

Community Request: Please don't return to the days of the expansion no-one mentions because it broke everything. Stop announcing your expansions 4 weeks in advanced and then cramming to get it done. Give us 2 days notice, TELL US what's changing and get it right instead.

Issue 7: CCP Communication
Why all the "Rage"?:

Lack Of.
Insulting to players.
Un-controlled.

Community Request: *<dismay>* I honestly don't know what to put here as it surely must be obvious?

I love the chat box in that pic. Have to agree with the first guy.

I love the smell of nerd rage in the morning.

Doe's CCP remind you of anyone ?

This is why I stick to second life.

Ya know, EVE always was slanted to the man with the greatest numerical resources. This was fine with me.

I don't mind losing because I decided to show up to a 30v30 fight with 29 less ships than the other guy. Side with more money won.
I don't mind losing because I got hit with a ship flown by a character that has been in existence for several years longer than mine, with a ship higher on the threat scale that he probably worked his ass off to get at some point or another.
Don't even mind the PVE Farmer with a war chest with about 12 zeros who can afford to throw ship after ship after ship after ship at me, and even if I kill 100 ships to his one, he will wear me down and force me out of an area. He has spent a good deal of time amassing that, or he has set up some really shiny moneymaking infrastructure someplace. Ingame.
However...just the IDEA of the situation becoming one side who is actually playing the game for their resources versus another who is replacing their losses due to using outside finances? Nah, this game is done. Time to move on. With the ISK buying it was already getting pretty bad, but making it blatant like MTs is nails in the coffin.

From what I am hearing they won't be doing anything with game-changing store gear. Real funny thing though: A few years ago they were swearing up and down that there would be no MTs at all.

3 Days and counting the protests are still going on.
People are calling for CCP's council for stella management (sometimes called CCP's corporate sh*t management) to resign in protest
I don't think they will, free holidays to iceland is a big draw for them.
Leaked emails and internal memo's show CCP like GW only sees people as a cash cow to be milked.

CCP's PR dept must be having a fit at the moment.

The funny thing is that longterm MT's will be a big drawcard for EVE online, and actually bring a lot more new players in and keep them in. I think really that people react strongly to bad stuff happening and don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Problem is that like gw they will run off the vets and replace them with noobies to fleece over. I left eve over a year ago and now im very glad I did.

In a way I dont even want to compare gw to ccp because even gw isn't as bad as they are.

I really, really don't get nerd entitlement. Playing a game doesn't mean the company has any moral obligation to worry over whether you like potential changes or not.

You are a customer for their product, nothing more, nothing less. If they can build a business model that brings in more money, then they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. If you don't like it, you stop buying their product... everything else is silliness.


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SOFDC wrote:Ya know, EVE always was slanted to the man with the greatest numerical resources. This was fine with me.

I don't mind losing because I decided to show up to a 30v30 fight with 29 less ships than the other guy. Side with more money won.
I don't mind losing because I got hit with a ship flown by a character that has been in existence for several years longer than mine, with a ship higher on the threat scale that he probably worked his ass off to get at some point or another.
Don't even mind the PVE Farmer with a war chest with about 12 zeros who can afford to throw ship after ship after ship after ship at me, and even if I kill 100 ships to his one, he will wear me down and force me out of an area. He has spent a good deal of time amassing that, or he has set up some really shiny moneymaking infrastructure someplace. Ingame.
However...just the IDEA of the situation becoming one side who is actually playing the game for their resources versus another who is replacing their losses due to using outside finances? Nah, this game is done. Time to move on. With the ISK buying it was already getting pretty bad, but making it blatant like MTs is nails in the coffin.

This just kind of leaves me scratching my head... I don't see how it's any more fair if some guy with basically more spare time should have an insurmountable advantage, any more than someone should because they've got a bigger limit on their credit card. Either way something is getting in the way of what should really be defining the winner - player skill.

Mind you, that's kind of my problem with every MMO, and the reason I think experience grind is really limiting for games.

People are voting with their subs.
Perpetuum online seems to have gained the most players,
Forcing them to take the server offline due to load.

http://massively.joystiq.com/





And then this. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319360/Possibly-the-best-goodbye-letter-ever-.html

loki old fart wrote:People are voting with their subs.

Which is cool. Don't like it, move on. But there's just no need for all the drama.

Just finished reading the leaked letter... My two cents:

a) Good thing I quitted EVE some four years ago.

b) I had forgotten how much I hate businesspeak.

Paying to play a game outside of a genuine social experience (at an arcade with another human being) has never been worth it for me. I would, however, possibly drop 2 or 3 bucks to get some shiny thing every once in a blue moon.

I don't see how it's any more fair if some guy with basically more spare time should have an insurmountable advantage, any more than someone should because they've got a bigger limit on their credit card.

Why would he? Just like in RL, there are people in EVE who do little but play the market for perhaps a half hour a day and walk around with billions. I myself could never stand to play the markets and moving goods around, but eh. Mostly my corp just paid me a fortune to run POS supplies past blockades and whatever I scraped up from hurting people and running complexes (Where one good complex run could net you a billion or so..). The obstacle to moneymaking isn't so much spare time, it's not throwing away your earnings stupidly.

Honestly, EVE was the most forgiving in the casual vs. "leet" situation I had ever seen. For example, lets take WOW. I stopped playing about 8 months ago, and if I wanted to do EITHER PVE or PVP content seriously, I would get slaughtered because I haven't been raiding for all that time for the latest and greatest gear and <Censored.> ....but my EVE characters would be training all this time. They would inflict a lot more damage and a lot more punishment, my options for which ships I get to fly expand, and my money still buys approximately the same things now as it did then. I can hop in a ship, fly it better than when I started my break, and aside from a minor hit learning whatever ship setup is the new flavor of the month and its counters I am good to go.

The idea for MTs giving a player game affecting items however ticks me off. So, the advantage someone gained over me was not A: Player experience B: Player skill or C: Anything actually gained from playing the game beyond entering the CC information. ....Huh....So this puts us at about the same level where those TF2 servers hand out in-game benefits like faster respawns and more damage for "Donating players" Eh? Heck with this, someone call me back when the other players want to beat me at the game by actually playing it.

I don't mind that other players have a better chance of beating me due to extra free time. I can envy their free time, but I certainly cannot complain about it any more than I can complain about getting my butt handed to me by the CODKid who plays 16 hours a day and has developed the ability to headshot in his sleep. I Will however start getting a little annoyed about the guy fresh in from 4chan buying the DLC aim assistant.

To be fair though, TF2s store is an example in favor of the MTs. They have managed to keep things easily obtainable without spending real money, and to boot they have done an amazing job of keeping the extra stuff balanced with the vanilla items. I do not think this will translate at ALL well to a game like EVE, but in the sake of fairness I figure it should be included.

Translated from islandic buy google http://www.eveonline.com/externalLink.aspx?l=http%3A%2F%2Ftranslate%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Ftranslate%3Fu%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww%2Embl%2Eis%252Ffrettir%252Ftaekni%252F2011%252F06%252F28%252Fpeningar%5Fna%5Fekki%5Fyfirradum%252F%26sl%3Dis%26tl%3Den%26hl%3D%26ie%3DUTF%2D8

ANYONE from iceland?

SOFDC wrote:Why would he? Just like in RL, there are people in EVE who do little but play the market for perhaps a half hour a day and walk around with billions. I myself could never stand to play the markets and moving goods around, but eh. Mostly my corp just paid me a fortune to run POS supplies past blockades and whatever I scraped up from hurting people and running complexes (Where one good complex run could net you a billion or so..). The obstacle to moneymaking isn't so much spare time, it's not throwing away your earnings stupidly.

Honestly, EVE was the most forgiving in the casual vs. "leet" situation I had ever seen. For example, lets take WOW. I stopped playing about 8 months ago, and if I wanted to do EITHER PVE or PVP content seriously, I would get slaughtered because I haven't been raiding for all that time for the latest and greatest gear and <Censored.> ....but my EVE characters would be training all this time. They would inflict a lot more damage and a lot more punishment, my options for which ships I get to fly expand, and my money still buys approximately the same things now as it did then. I can hop in a ship, fly it better than when I started my break, and aside from a minor hit learning whatever ship setup is the new flavor of the month and its counters I am good to go.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. So you gain levels and access to new ships for having had an account for a long time. Which means a player has an advantage simply for having been in the game longer. And while it might be important not to waste money, the more of it you have the better.

So there are advantages to having been playing a game for longer. Most people are fine with this, and it's why almost every MMO is based on the model. We can talk about why that is, but there's no point if you're just going to pretend EVE doesn't reward players for time served.

sebster wrote:

SOFDC wrote:Why would he? Just like in RL, there are people in EVE who do little but play the market for perhaps a half hour a day and walk around with billions. I myself could never stand to play the markets and moving goods around, but eh. Mostly my corp just paid me a fortune to run POS supplies past blockades and whatever I scraped up from hurting people and running complexes (Where one good complex run could net you a billion or so..). The obstacle to moneymaking isn't so much spare time, it's not throwing away your earnings stupidly.

Honestly, EVE was the most forgiving in the casual vs. "leet" situation I had ever seen. For example, lets take WOW. I stopped playing about 8 months ago, and if I wanted to do EITHER PVE or PVP content seriously, I would get slaughtered because I haven't been raiding for all that time for the latest and greatest gear and <Censored.> ....but my EVE characters would be training all this time. They would inflict a lot more damage and a lot more punishment, my options for which ships I get to fly expand, and my money still buys approximately the same things now as it did then. I can hop in a ship, fly it better than when I started my break, and aside from a minor hit learning whatever ship setup is the new flavor of the month and its counters I am good to go.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. So you gain levels and access to new ships for having had an account for a long time. Which means a player has an advantage simply for having been in the game longer. And while it might be important not to waste money, the more of it you have the better.

So there are advantages to having been playing a game for longer. Most people are fine with this, and it's why almost every MMO is based on the model. We can talk about why that is, but there's no point if you're just going to pretend EVE doesn't reward players for time served.

And that's the problem. The players see this as experience for cash.
Got daddies credit card, buy your way to the top.

Also the draw of eve is how many tears are shed when a ship you worked hard for gets blown up. Whats the point if for real cash, you can just buy another in station.
It's like buying a game then using a cheat code, when playing. Why bother

loki old fart wrote:And that's the problem. The players see this as experience for cash.
Got daddies credit card, buy your way to the top.

And all I'm saying is that the unfairness in that situation feels no different to me than the unfairness that comes from one person having a much more powerful character just because he's played the game for a lot longer.

I'm not saying it's okay for one player to have more starting advantages because he spent more money, I'm saying I don't see how it's any different than granting advantages for having played a long time. Both harm game design, and both should be seriously re-evaluated.

It's like buying a game then using a cheat code, when playing. Why bother

To see content faster without dragging yourself through repetitive, tedious timesinks designed to pad out the playing time.

loki old fart wrote:Doe's CCP remind you of anyone ?

A company that wants to make money?


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loki old fart wrote:
CCP's PR dept must be having a fit at the moment.

No. They're laughing and counting the money you gave them. Reykjavik is a fun city.