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I play at mainly 1500 points and I'm finding that a purifier spam list is either too slow when all the purifiers are on foot or not strong enough in the shooting phase if you keep them in rhinos. Maybe I'm just unlucky with my psycannons but I don't seem to be laying waste to infantry with them and rending shots don't crop up often enough to be considered anything like reliable.

But, MSU's in rhinos with Psyrilfe support is, in theory, very capable of holding it's own in most situations. So, keeping the core of my army as Purifiers in Rhinos, I'm looking for advice on how to change the list up a little to add more flexibility and be a little less predictable.

My first thoughts were to put purifiers with no psycannons and just halberds/storm bolters in Land Raiders so I could deliver them into CC where they have seemed to be far more effective for me. But the cost of that is too prohibitive below 2000 points at least. And it would probably just be better to use Coteaz and shove tonnes of Death Cult Assassins in Land Raiders and let them assault with more attacks at half the cost.

Now I'm leaning towards keeping my Purifiers as Elites and taking 3 x 5 man squads with 2 psycannons, 1 hammer and 2 halberds each in Rhinos and taking a GM (mine has an incinerator and halberd which I can't change) as my HQ. Then two Psyriflemen and 2 x 5 man terminator squads with a psycannon in each squad and various weapons. I would deep strike them in using servo skulls that the GM would bring. And if I need more scoring units, I have the Grand Strategy.

I'm just toying around with a few ideas but I'm here asking how the good people of Dakka would consider tweaking a Purifier list to just give it that little bit more flexibility whilst still being competitive.

Purifier spam terrifies my Guard, especially now that my bud just realized how good VenPsyfle Dreads are. Coupled with Shrouding and Obscured from walking behind the Rhino wall, it's basically a guaranteed 4 S8 TL shots per turn.

It's just disgusting, and my Mech Guard army crys whenever I play it.

With purifiers you don't want to sit in a rhino and shoot. When you get to range, hop out and shoot alongside the transport. You're paying for those extra storm bolters, that's how you shred infantry. Dump a ton of assault 2 guns into them, then finish them off with cleansing flame and I6 stabbing. You can use your rhino to give you cover from things you don't want to get shot by.

If the points allow, what about Razorbacks instead of Rhinos? The guns on the razorback could add that extra firepower to surport the Purifiers after they disembarked.

One of my buds uses Purifiers with a rhino and 3 razorbacks and 2 psy dreads and a 2 dreadknights and I haven't figured out how to beat him yet.

I did manage a draw, but thats the closest I came to killing him.

Also, I don't suck, its just hard to deal with ...

So far, Ive been using just 3 squads of purifiers and two dreads and then filling the rest of the points with a DK and interceptors. I've also allowed my forces to get too spread out.

I think I'll go for something like 4 x 5 man squads and 3 Psyrifle dreads. I could also stick a Vindicare in there and have some points to spare at 1500 as well. Or I could go for 5 x 5 man squads and 3 Psyrilfe dreads. I prefer the Vindicare list but he'd be a big target from turn 1 and besides trying to bump up his cover save as best I can, I don't really know of any other way to protect him.

The razorbacks are ok if taking 5 man squads but the weapons you can take with them don't really add any extra anti armour value to psycannons and autocannons. HB razors are relatively cheap and I could use those but anything more like lascannons would just take points away from other things I could field.

Actually, just checked and I could take 4x5 man squads (2 psycannons, 1 hammer and 2 halberds) in HB razors with Psyammo. 3 Psyrifle dreads and a vindicare (plus Crowe of course) all at 1500 anyway. If I put them all on the field and keep them close together then I'm sure it would be heavy hitting. My only issue is, it isn't very flexible which is why I've tended to try saving some points for faster DKs and/or Interceptors. Having said that, my lists so far haven't been brilliant so maybe I will just go with the extra Purifiers/HB razors and an extra psyrifleman. The hammers in each squad and the vindicare will have to suffice for anti AV14. It's just a little too net-listy but what the hell eh? Thanks for the help!

Very few units in the game are as idiotproof as Purifiers. Got AV14? No problem. Got Hoarde? No problem. Got high Initiative CC units? No problem. Got high S CC units? No problem.

There's literally nothing in the game that they are unprepared to handle.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are verging on the idiot proof. To pen AV14 with psycannons requires rending and you need to put out a lot of shots for that. In assault you need to get within range of your target, and who's going to make it easy for you to walk up to their Land Raider with your Daemonhammer wielding Grey Knights?

Anti horde requires cleansing flame and from my experience, relying on being able to activate a psychic power every time is risky - it's easy to fail several psychic tests in one battle. And a 5 man unit of purifiers will die to a tonne of termagants if they fail to activate cleansing flame (probably).

High Strength units? Purifers don't have any powers that can help them to withstand high S CC opponents. Unless you mean warding staves and that's only one per squad but they aren't purifier only weapons.

To maximize their usefulness, you generally take 2 psycannons, a hammer and 2 halberds which means that they are not specialised like say, a 5 halberd squad may be. So, you have to use them in conjunction with other units, move and deploy them where you want them and make sure you have the initiative. If you can set the tempo of the game then yes, I agree that they are prepared to handle many situations but you have to work hard to make it work for you. Idiot proof they are not.

I've found that 6 man squads in razorbacks with 4 halberds and 2 psycannons works the best for me. The 6th man helps with a couple more attacks purifiers seem to need to get the job done. I don't play hammers because the unit is not a CC dedicated unit. They are there to shoot things and survive if they get charged. Striking first against the majority of opponents plus cleansing flame helps a lot in this regard.
Plus i think the idea of taking something that boosts your initiative on a couple guys and reduces it on another to be silly.

Saying purifiers are underwhelming is like saying Guards aren't shooty enough or that daemons are not assaulty enough.

Purifiers have the tools to handle almost anything they encounter, and they can do it well. What they can't handle, the rest of the army should help to compensate for. Can't take down land raiders? Get a vindicare or librarians with Might of Titan. Can't handle bloodcrushers? Lock them up in cc with your psyfleman dreads. You find that your army is slow? Then you should always be moving every turn. Don't just sit there for the 1st 3 turns and then say that your army isn't mobile.

If you're looking for a golden bullet, there isn't any unit in the entire 40k universe that can do it all. Every unit has its weakness. The key to playing that unit successfully lies in understanding its limitations. Then you compensate for it by adding the right support units to balance out the army. In the case of purifiers, you need to make a decision. Do you want massed firepower (footslogging knights) at the expense of mobility and protection (transports) or vice versa? Do you want to play an assaulty purifier army (and have land raiders to deliver your units into assault)? Or would you prefer a shooty purifier army (and take more psyfleman dreads)? These are things you should consider when designing your list.

This much I would say...Grey Knights are not a truly assaulty army. IMO they work best as a shooty, counter-assault type of army. I used to run 3 LR's from my daemonhunter days to 0 LR's currently. They no longer really need LR's to be competitive.

The secret to using purifiers is, don't get shot.

Easier said than done.

odorofdeath wrote:Purifier spam terrifies my Guard, especially now that my bud just realized how good VenPsyfle Dreads are. Coupled with Shrouding and Obscured from walking behind the Rhino wall, it's basically a guaranteed 4 S8 TL shots per turn.

It's just disgusting, and my Mech Guard army crys whenever I play it.

Oh no, Mech guard crying? Thats just what I prayed for when the GK rumours were flying about...

ColdSadHungry wrote:So far, Ive been using just 3 squads of purifiers and two dreads and then filling the rest of the points with a DK and interceptors. I've also allowed my forces to get too spread out.

I think I'll go for something like 4 x 5 man squads and 3 Psyrifle dreads. I could also stick a Vindicare in there and have some points to spare at 1500 as well. Or I could go for 5 x 5 man squads and 3 Psyrilfe dreads. I prefer the Vindicare list but he'd be a big target from turn 1 and besides trying to bump up his cover save as best I can, I don't really know of any other way to protect him.

he's a single model on foot, and he's pretty skinny. just hide him behind one of your vehicles. Vehicle moves out of the way, bam! clear LOS.

ColdSadHungry wrote:The razorbacks are ok if taking 5 man squads but the weapons you can take with them don't really add any extra anti armour value to psycannons and autocannons. HB razors are relatively cheap and I could use those but anything more like lascannons would just take points away from other things I could field.

thats fine, don't bother with anything else. keep them cheap. You've got enough anti armour in the list already.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Actually, just checked and I could take 4x5 man squads (2 psycannons, 1 hammer and 2 halberds) in HB razors with Psyammo. 3 Psyrifle dreads and a vindicare (plus Crowe of course) all at 1500 anyway. If I put them all on the field and keep them close together then I'm sure it would be heavy hitting. My only issue is, it isn't very flexible which is why I've tended to try saving some points for faster DKs and/or Interceptors. Having said that, my lists so far haven't been brilliant so maybe I will just go with the extra Purifiers/HB razors and an extra psyrifleman. The hammers in each squad and the vindicare will have to suffice for anti AV14. It's just a little too net-listy but what the hell eh? Thanks for the help!

The problem with netlists is that you'll never learn to play the game. Rather than finding and tuning a list thats specific to you and that works in your hands, you're taking something that isn't honed and may be completely innappropriate for you. Just 'cause its a netlist doesn't guarantee that it'll work. you are far better off learning whats what for yourself than relying on someone else doing your thinking for you.