Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A Tuesday Night League game.
My Dark Eldar

3 haems, x2 liquifiers 1 shattershard (deploy with wyches)

4 Trublasters in Venom with Extra SplinterCannon
4 Trublasters in Venom with Extra SplinterCannon
4 Trublasters in Venom with Extra SplinterCannon

9 wyches including hekagonzier, Shardnet, haywires, in Raider FF
9 wyches including hekagonzier, Shardnet, haywires, in Raider FF
9 wyches including hekagonzier, haywires, in Raider FF
5 warriors footslogging
5 warriors in Venom with Extra SplinterCannon

x3 Ravager FF

Necrons

Necron Lord War Scythe, Pulse, Veil of Darkness
Deceiver

10 Immortals

4 Destroyers
5 Destroyers
5 Destroyers

10 Warriors
11 Warriors

The mission was Annihilation with Spearhead deployment. For Combat Drugs, the wyches start with a Pain Token of their own.

I won the roll-off and decided to put the necrons in the more open corner, where there was a LoS blocking ruin, but near the side edge, so it wouldn't afford him much protection from the 5 venoms and ravagers. And the floor/base of that ruin didn't offer Cover Saves, as it was "smooth". The river was difficult terrain, but only a 6++.

Here my DE skimmers are deployed as close as possible.

My opponent went for a deep castle.



He failed to seize the Initiative so on to Turn 1!
DE Movement: I go Flat Out with the 3 Raiders (dice left in front to show that). I moved the Ravagers and a couple venoms up (risking a Diff Terrain check- passed!).


Shooting is limited and I drop 2 destroyers and 2 immortals.
Necron Turn 1: Movement. The red-winged model is his Deceiver, who moved out from behind cover. The Lord used Veil of Darkness to teleport to shoot with the haem/wyche raider at the bottom of the picture, but had a 9" scatter rear-ward. And the Immortals shuffled through the ruins.


Continuing Turn 1:
The Necron Destroyers really do their thing, shooting down the two raiders that swept to the left. The dual glass beads mark two Pain Tokens, sadly not enough for Fearless before getting shot down!


The fully painted wyches, with the ShatterShard haemonculus, fail their Pinning Check.


This raider in the river is actually my proxied ravager, with 2 DL holding warriors. Despite getting 3 damage results, the ravager lives on Stunned and 2 Weapon Destroyed results.


The Deceiver assaulted the raider, getting only one hit, which is denied by the FlickerField. The 'stunned' maker was scored by the Necron Lord's shooting.

More to Come!

Great Start! Necrons-Dark Eldar seems like it will be an intersting matchup. CAnt wait for more!

Looks like a challenge. Destroyers give DE fits and the C'tan is easy-peasy with poisoned weapons. Least there's no Monoliths.

Dark Eldar Turn 2.
Unpictured, my unit of Kabalite Warriors come in from Reserve, and I simply put them out of range and behind the fleet of ravagers and venoms. They're irrelevant the whole game and I'll just leave them out from here forward. I usually have them come in for a late objective grab, but they're a liability in KP missions. Eh.

The wyches and haem bypass the Deceiver and head for the Necron Lord and his warriors. A mistake: I had the haem detatch. After shooting, I realized that I denied my wyches the Furious Charge by separating the haem, because they had two Pain Tokens between them. I'm so used to having him leave them his Pain Token and go liquify things, I'd done this automatically. Very silly too, as I had the haem assault in anyway, as he'd most assuredly die to shooting, but had less chance in h2h versus Necron Warriors. Oops.

The liquifier rolled a non-lethal AP and wyche shooting killed the two warriors laid to the side.


I back off the fleet behind the center piece of terrain, giving some blocked LoS, and some distance to his Destroyers. Since he didn't move them up on Turn 1, I thought he might not do it for Turn 2 either. I've got his immortals, Deceiver and Lord+Warriors to shoot at. And the unpinned Wyches move up, hopefully to shoot the Deceiver down, before it can assault.



Otherwise, my Shooting yielded 2 wounds on the Deciever & a few downed Immortals. The Wyches & haemonculus assaulted the Lord and his warriors, winning by one, but make morale.

I got the Shardnet all snuggled up to the Lord.


Necron Turn 2
WWB rolls bring 3 Warriors and 3 Immortals, but he's starting to lose Destroyers.


Soon more.

Looks like you're getting the right idea in this fight. Many people make the mistake of going after the C'tan/Monoliths and ignoring the other stuff, signaling a loss. We'll see how this pans out I guess :3

Continuing Necron Turn 2:
My opponent is still playing cautious, having moved just a few destroyers up.


On the left, the Deceiver heads for the wyches, ignoring the river's swiftly moving waters


The wyches and haem suddenly find themselves alone as the Lord used Veil of Darkness to get out of h2h. You can now see where the Lord teleported to in the previous picture, over by the water terrain.

Now, here we weren't sure, but the units that get left by the Lord get to Consolidate, yes? We asked the other guys here and there, and went ahead with a 'yes', and the haem and the wyches each earned a 6! This allowed me to place the both reasonably close to the ruins, to gain Cover Saves from the Destroyers that had moved up along the side-edge. What isn't shown was that I put the haem next to a buttress but I had to spread the wyches around as both units are still separate, and yet, keep enough wyches in terrain and out of LoS of the Destroyers in the corner. That picture was too blurry to keep. I guess I was excited that they weren't going to get too shot up!

I was wrong, since the Immortals were right on the edge of the ruin, my girls had no Cover. The Immortals killed all but the hekatrix. She makes her morale check. I can't recall who the Destroyers shot at. Either the wyches or the raider that the Deceiver failed to bring down. What I do know is that the raider was functional for an additional turn. Another picture that is lost, shows my opponent's roll to have the Immortals assault the hekatrix. He rolled double '2's! No assault.


The Deceiver gets closer to the wyches who would take two casualties to shooting, and I have the hekatrix and Shardnet wyche as the forward models ... if they had been regular girls, I might've removed them, denying the Deceiver the assault range.


More shooting! Not shown, the unit that was Pinned gets shot up pretty bad, losing 7 girls, and a wound on their ShatterShard haem.

The Deceiver assaults in.


The DE totally whiff! Deceiver wins, and the girls and haem fail morale! Running off for 7 inches.


Turn 3
Dark Eldar

Throughout each turn, I'm taking down a destroyer here and there. Some of those pixs got deleted.

My wyche unit is eligible to rally, but I roll too high. They flee some more. Also shown, with the Deceiver now unengaged, I move the venoms and one-gun ravager to the right, hiding them from any counter shooting due the big ... temple terrain. That Deceiver is going to have to go down, as he's a threat to the boats and can keep that wyche crew (2 Kill Points! with the haem) from Regrouping.

There's a Trueborn infront of the venom on the right, and they'll get the last wound on the Deceiver, earning a Pain Token. With him gone, I feel that I'm off the ropes from the Necrons' first two good rounds of shooting. I had other trublasters (primer black) disembark from the other venom into the center piece, so *they'd* help shoot down the Deceiver.


What's left of that first (Pinned) wyche unit starts heading toward the Lord, but I will need a *really* good Run roll to make it to assault. I have the haem detach for that reason. And, I can tell he's too far away for the ShatterShard so I 'run' him onto the wall. I'll get a 3 or a 4 for that 'Run' roll, and eye-balling it, decide to have those two wyches go back behind the raider. They might well be out of the fight.


Venom shooting reduce the Lord's unit to just him and a warrior.

Assault!
I had the haem and wyche rejoin as with shooting and an assault, I figure 3 destroyers won't be much of a challenge. First, the liquifier: My haam aims it at the 3 destroyers and gets a '6' for the AP. *Sigh* Still, on assault, given a bit of Furious Charge things will be good! Oh, wait, she's got an agonzier, but he can get a STR boost!

One destroyer dies to the agonizer. My opponent, hoping his destroyer blows morale so my unit can be counter shot, rolls Snake-Eyes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can see the pack of 5 brown destroyers, the ones that shot up my ravager. End of Turn 3

Top of Turn 4!
DE:
My fleeing wyches and haem again fail to Regroup! They don't go off the table, though (no pic).

I moved the venoms and ravagers up. I'd let those two destroyer units go unmolested for too long, particularly with the Deceiver pushing me back, but with him gone ... . First venoms and then Dark Lances, I killed all 4 Pinks. But with two of the Destroyers downed by Lances, they weren't going to get a WWB chance. Those last two might be within 6 inches of the brown unit, with dice on their bases to indicate they'd 'died'.

Also, those two wyches? Well, I changed my mind, and had 'em advance up.

They assaulted and didn't do much.


That other combat, with the hekatrix and haem, versus a single Destroyer, continued! Whiffs all around!

Necron Turn 4:
He failed 4 out of 6 WWB, mostly on Destroyers, 2 of them failing were the Pinks! Another KP for the depraved Elves. The game is turning around, I think!

Movement: Later, my opponent admitted this was a crucial mistake, but he advanced his second warrior unit up to the hekztrix/haem/single destroyer combat, either to assault in, or rapid fire the surviving DE. They were nicely clumped together.

Elsewhere, his Destroyers fired on my rear-most ravager. And we had a goof here. He rolled for glances and pens versus AV10, and I got caught up in it forgetting the Ravager is AV11. I did manage a FlickerField save, but not enough. He exploded it, doing damage to the TrueBorn nearby, which heroically managed their saves!

A few moments later, I realized that we'd screwed up, and that he'd only scored *one* pen and a glance. He wasn't happy about it, understandably. We went back (nothing else had been done) and re-rolled. It survived. I offered to have it Stunned for the gaff, which he sportsman-like accepted, but then simply had another unit shoot it, and it died anyway (wreck).


Lord and crew had teleported out of the h2h with the two wyches.

They then killed my last raider.


A venom gets Exploded! and two Trublasters die.


In the Necrons' assault phase, (not pictured) the hekatrix and haem finally kill the destroyer they'd tangled with on the side of the field for severral turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Turn 5

Time to assess: I'm down on KPs, by a lot. 3 raiders, haem, ravager, venom, wyche crew. Another unit of haem/wyches *still* flees! But not off the table.

I've killed 2 Destroyer units & the Deceiver, and that's it. The one unit of Warriors with the Lord is down to like 4.

It's 7 KPs to 3. Time to do or die!

DE Turn 5: The haem and hekatrix line up on the unit of Warriors that had moved up.


I'd kinda blown the usefullness of the primer black TrueBorn. A low Difficult Terrain roll made me reconsider exposing themselves, so they stayed back, while the other two Trublaster units advanced within range of the immortals who were still in the ruins, not having moved much. The venoms moved up, and the other surviving ravagers poor fire into the last Destroyer unit, finishing it. My fleet pours more fire into the units they have LoS to. And then most of the immortals die, only 2 left. The Lord's unit? Him and a warrior after shooting.


The liquifier finally kicks in with a AP3 burst! And I get a walloping 5 wounds!


At this point I ask what every Necron player hates to hear: "Uhm, how many is Phase Out?"



It turns out, we'd reached the magic number.

Dark Eldar win as the Necrons Phase Out!

good game man. I did want to let you know that when necrons teleport out of combat the opposing models that were in combat do not get a consolidation.

basically if necrons disappear do to the monolith or a veil of darkness no consolidation is given to any models that were in combat with the unit before this happens.

although if the deceiver chooses to leave combat on the opponents assault phase before blows are struck the deceiver moves d6 in any direction and the models that were locked in combat also get a consolidation.

To be fair the Necron list looks a bit weak.

The Lord's loadout is so-so at best, and castling the destroyers wastes their main asset, speed. A better setup would be a destroyer lord with orb and phase shifter, attached to one unit of destroyers, with the others tagging close and the whole mass zooming around the field

If I knew I was going against DE I would have packed a Lith and lost the Ctan as the Ctan are poison -frail and DE really struggle against Liths.

That said Nice battle

Good to see the old deck-chair jockey destroyers in play again

@hollowmirror: Thanks for the Consolidation ruling. Care to cite where you got it, though?

@Ascalam:
Deck chairs? Heh, my opponent mentioned an ebay find. Also, he's got 2 Monos on order.

The deck-chair destroyers are the original pre-codex ones.

You can get pre-codex Immortals and warriors easily on ebay also. Looks like he did witht he immortals

They look a bit more steampunk-and-rivets than the current breed

Wish him luck assemble+painting the Liths. They can be a bit of a pain.

well the deceiver ruling is based on the c'tan rules for decieve saying that before blows are struck during the opponents assault phase the deceiver may leave combat and consolidate d6" followed by any enemy units that were in combat with the deceiver at the start of the assault.

as far as the portal and veil it merely says that they leave the enemy models behind and doesn't reference any kind of action they will be allowed to take after this special kind of movement. they are merely left caught unready for their opponents to vanish.

However it actually lists this as a form of a tactic on the games workshop site itself saying to portal the crons walking out from a monolith and then using a second monolith to particle the unit left behind as they are now nice and clustered together.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=200008&pIndex=4&aId=11300001&multiPageMode=true&start=5

here is a link to the tactics.

Yeah basically you aren't given permission to consolidate if they Veil/Portal out of combat so you just sit there. You can check the FAQs I guess but you should be able to get to that conclusion anyway following RAW (remember its a permissive ruleset). Its not a "normal" method of ending a combat so you don't apply the standard rules.

Not that it made a huge difference in this case (sad as it may be I was waiting for the Phase Out as soon as I opened this thread tbh) but those Pink Destroyers you mentioned would have given you a KP as soon as you had downed the entire unit. Even if they had used WBB to merge with the other unit of Destroyers the original unit would have no longer existed, giving you the KP.
I'm also not sure if he Phased Out at the correct time actually (it was still coming but still), he only would have Phased Out in your turn if it was going to be impossible for him to get himself back above his Phase Out number with WWB, which seems unlike given pretty much everything you downed in that final turn (other than the Destroyers) would have been able to roll.

Yep, saw it coming. No monoliths = no win for crons in 5th edition. At least, for a little while longer anyway. He put up one hell of a fight though.

Very nice report

Thanks for the good read! I just had a question. I thought the C'tan ignore Invulnerable saves? so the close combat with the raider couldn't have been saved with the flickerfield?

They do, and any other saves as well. Well spotted. All CC attacks from a Ctan ignore saves of any kind, including invulnerable saves.

They are also MCs, with high end Str, which makes them nasty vs vehicles (unless i try to use them to break AV 12+, then i'll roll a lot of 1's... )

Powerguy wrote:Not that it made a huge difference in this case (sad as it may be I was waiting for the Phase Out as soon as I opened this thread tbh) but those Pink Destroyers you mentioned would have given you a KP as soon as you had downed the entire unit. Even if they had used WBB to merge with the other unit of Destroyers the original unit would have no longer existed, giving you the KP.

Ah. More little details coming out. I have had so few games against necrons and my opponent has been using them for only a month. This is a good point, if the Pink Ds had managed to get up, but they didn't. I will make note of this (in my little binder of FAQs) for future games, as he's a regular in the league.

Powerguy wrote:I'm also not sure if he Phased Out at the correct time actually (it was still coming but still), he only would have Phased Out in your turn if it was going to be impossible for him to get himself back above his Phase Out number with WWB, which seems unlike given pretty much everything you downed in that final turn (other than the Destroyers) would have been able to roll.

So, we should have finished my Turn? Hmm. Coulda happened:

1. Hekatrix and haem assault 5 warriors. 4 Agonizer swings, likely 1 to 2 dead warriors. 3 succeed WWB.
2. Maybe have the 8 immortals get back up.
3. Lord gets back 2 or 3 buddies.

Depending on the Assault and WWB rolls, it was on knife's edge there.

Then his Turn 5 with the immortals likely to kill one of the Trueborn units (the 2 man squad was closest), he'd be still ahead on KPs. If a Turn 6 had kicked in, I had plenty of fire power to Table anyway. Still, a niggling thing to consider, and I'll certainly make sure he knows (like reading this thread).

Ascalam wrote:They do, and any other saves as well. Well spotted. All CC attacks from a Ctan ignore saves of any kind, including invulnerable saves.

I knew the Lord's weapon ignored all saves, but not the Deceiver's attacks. Hmm. Not a game changer, as that one raider's lance shot didn't do much, being alive for one more turn. Still, it's another groaning error that I'd rather not have in my game for me or my opponent.

Thanks guys for pointing out the improprieties. It's going to help my opponent's game really tighten up.

just to give you a few more things about both the c'tan brother, especially if he's just starting with necrons.

if an enemy that is not fearless attempts to assault the c'tan they must pass a leadership test to do so and if they fail they will not be allowed to assault that turn.

the deceiver has a ability called deceive that will force a moral test or a pinning test on the enemy unit even if they are fearless. If a fearless unit takes a moral test and fails they will take a number of wounds ap- equal to the amount the unit failed by. pins work as normal.

the deceive ability doesn't count as a shooting attack and therefore the deceiver may pin force a test on one unit within 24" and then assault a different unit. He may also perform a run and the deceive ability in the same shooting phase as there is no limitation on the ability and the deceiver has no shooting attack.

finally if either c'tan dies they immediately explode with a radius of d6". the blast is Str 6 and allows no armor saves.

all of these are things to do with the deceiver or c'tan in general and are common things players forget.

@hollowmirror
Thanks! A lot of good stuff to know.

Minorly, the Deceiver's death-throws *did* get remembered, but he was well away from any of my models at the time.

Close call there at the end! Great rep

I didn't like the Necron list at all, but good report!

Can't say the result is that surprising, but good battle report.

Brothererekose wrote:[u]

The wyches and haem bypass the Deceiver and head for the Necron Lord and his warriors.

In retrospect, I think we made a mistake here regarding the rules. It seemed to me a weird move at the time, but some bystander (this is a league game) distracted me enough, so I did not catch it immediately.

My understanding is that the entire detachment must unload from the transport first and then the move, run, etc. can be taken. Looking at the picture, you can see there is no space for the wyches to unload in full in front of the transport and with all models far enough from the Deceiver. So, if my understanding of the rules is correct, there is no way the wyches would have made the move and assaulted the warriors. There is enough space for them to unload one or two at a time, and then make a bee line for the warriors, but that is not the way the rules work, IMO. Intuitively it did not make sense to me at the time as well, because I also play IG and know how difficult it is sometimes to get all the ogryn out with a Lord Commissar joined within 2 inches of the Chimera ramp. The skiff here is an assault vehicle, but the wyches still need to unload and then move as a unit. That was one of the intuitive reasons I moved the Deceiver right in their way. Without that charge, things would have gone much more smoothly for the immortal host.

Regarding the general game, several things went against me:
1) old codex - Duh! Don't even start me on that.
2) no monolith models - now I have two
3) that double 2 on the immortals's assault move
4) we messed up the consolidation of the wyches after the lord teleported away with the warriors. That allowed the wyches and haem to get out of plain sight of most of my destroyers.
5) I made a big mistake moving the warriors into liquefier range. The unlikely happened - the Destroyer survived just enough to prevent me from shooting.
6) We messed up the phaseout rules - enough may have come back to keep me around for sudden game end at the beginning of turn 6.

I understand I am at a disadvantage until the new codex arrives, but I like the Necrons too much to stop playing them until then. Hopefully the new codex will also streamline the contradictory and convoluted mechanics that is in place now as well.

Never quit Necrons.

It's way too much fun to play them agaisnt unprepared opponents

necrons are very fun to to play. I always like to have a challenge. What feels better then winning with the codex that's generally thought of as the weakest of all?

Winning a tournament with the codex that's generally thought of as the weakest of all, of course

It's do-able. I've done it occasionally. I've also had my tin-plated butt handed to me at tournaments, but hey..

Necrontyr40k wrote:My understanding is that the entire detachment must unload from the transport first and then the move, run, etc. can be taken. Looking at the picture, you can see there is no space for the wyches to unload in full in front of the transport and with all models far enough from the Deceiver. So, if my understanding of the rules is correct, there is no way the wyches would have made the move and assaulted the warriors. There is enough space for them to unload one or two at a time, and then make a bee line for the warriors, but that is not the way the rules work, IMO. Intuitively it did not make sense to me at the time as well, because I also play IG and know how difficult it is sometimes to get all the ogryn out with a Lord Commissar joined within 2 inches of the Chimera ramp. The skiff here is an assault vehicle, but the wyches still need to unload and then move as a unit. That was one of the intuitive reasons I moved the Deceiver right in their way. Without that charge, things would have gone much more smoothly for the immortal host.

Hmm. This does look like a valid point. I'd say it's not your opinion, but you're just plain right.

I think the terrain piece should have played a more significant role here and if I'd done the deployment correctly; I would have had to disembark the wyches fanning out around the Deceiver, with maybe two wyches to starboard of the raider (if possible), then Run and then make the assault ... with the haem detaching of course.

Oy! Too many little hitches & mistakes in our game, Necrontyr40k! I think you shoulda won!

Necrontyr40k wrote:3) that double 2 on the immortals's assault move
4) we messed up the consolidation of the wyches after the lord teleported away with the warriors. That allowed the wyches and haem to get out of plain sight of most of my destroyers.
5) I made a big mistake moving the warriors into liquefier range. The unlikely happened - the Destroyer survived just enough to prevent me from shooting.
6) We messed up the phaseout rules - enough may have come back to keep me around for sudden game end at the beginning of turn 6.

I agree on all counts. I'll be in later tonight, around 7:30, if you'd like a rematch.

Necrontyr40k wrote:... but I like the Necrons too much to stop playing them until then.

Heck, yeah. I'm getting a little wary of playing you again, seeing how close this one was, and if we'd been better about the necron rules, you shoulda took it. Still, I'll play ya anytime.

Ascalam wrote:To be fair the Necron list looks a bit weak.

The Lord's loadout is so-so at best, and castling the destroyers wastes their main asset, speed. A better setup would be a destroyer lord with orb and phase shifter, attached to one unit of destroyers, with the others tagging close and the whole mass zooming around the field

Can you explain a bit on this? I am curious as a new Necron player. Why is the solar pulse / veil a so-so loadout? The pulse can be game-changing in Dawn of War deployment (33% of the time), and is still useful in other cases. The veil gives me incredible mobility for an army without transports.

I admit attaching a lord to the destroyers on destroyer body with the orb and shifter is an interesting idea. I guess you will take the dark lance hits on the lord, saving the destroyers to keep up the firepower.

I had to castle the destroyers in the beginning first because it was spearhead deployment and because I lost the rolloff for who goes first. So, I had to go back and hide in the corner to weather the first turn behind a cover screen of warriors. Those cover saves were very useful against the dark lances, which is why I got through the first turn better off than I normally would when losing initiative to the DE. Later in the game, I did not move out, because DE were already in range with some of their stuff, while the choicier targets (gunboats and venoms) were hiding behind terrain and likely out of range. Moving out would also have lost the cover provided by the warriors.

If I knew I was going against DE I would have packed a Lith and lost the Ctan as the Ctan are poison -frail and DE really struggle against Liths.

Since that was a league game, I thought it was fair not to customize the list. Essentially you dispatch the battle barge (or whatever the Necrons have for equivalent) before you know who will show up to fight on the particular planet. I think Brothererekose did the same - on list for all - so it is only fair. But yes, monoliths would have worked better against DE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollowmirror wrote:well the deceiver ruling is based on the c'tan rules for decieve saying that before blows are struck during the opponents assault phase the deceiver may leave combat and consolidate d6" followed by any enemy units that were in combat with the deceiver at the start of the assault.

Can you point out whence the d6 consolidation rule? Is it in some newer FAQ? I think the codex says he can make a fallback move, so 2d6''. This is important because sometimes I want the Deceiver to contest objectives. If I roll high on 2d6, that messes up that plan. If it is a fallback move, why is it in any direction? Another one of those GW "rulings off the hip".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

woodbok wrote:I didn't like the Necron list at all, but good report!

What are the problems with it? What is your favorite Necron list and how do you play it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:They do, and any other saves as well. Well spotted. All CC attacks from a Ctan ignore saves of any kind, including invulnerable saves.

They are also MCs, with high end Str, which makes them nasty vs vehicles (unless i try to use them to break AV 12+, then i'll roll a lot of 1's... )

I think the codex says MC, but there is no reference to ignoring invulnerable saves. Is this from a FAQ? This is very important - if so, screwing it up on that rule has already cost me at least one league game (against DKs).

By the way, speaking of FAQs, I read the 2009 one just now. It appears the warscythe upgrage for the Lord makes him lose the shooting attacks from the staff of light. Very strange, since the pariahs' weapon is a warscythe that functions as a necron blaster as well. Why would the Necron Lord be upgraded to be armed with less than what a pariah gets as standard?? I always played it as a staff of light that gets the warscythe ability on the upgrade. Apparently, very wrongly so.

Necrontyr40k, I suggest you Copy&Paste your last post to the YouMakeDaCall forum. You'll get some faster responses.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Ascalam wrote:To be fair the Necron list looks a bit weak.

The Lord's loadout is so-so at best, and castling the destroyers wastes their main asset, speed. A better setup would be a destroyer lord with orb and phase shifter, attached to one unit of destroyers, with the others tagging close and the whole mass zooming around the field

Can you explain a bit on this? I am curious as a new Necron player. Why is the solar pulse / veil a so-so loadout? The pulse can be game-changing in Dawn of War deployment (33% of the time), and is still useful in other cases. The veil gives me incredible mobility for an army without transports.

I admit attaching a lord to the destroyers on destroyer body with the orb and shifter is an interesting idea. I guess you will take the dark lance hits on the lord, saving the destroyers to keep up the firepower.

I had to castle the destroyers in the beginning first because it was spearhead deployment and because I lost the rolloff for who goes first. So, I had to go back and hide in the corner to weather the first turn behind a cover screen of warriors. Those cover saves were very useful against the dark lances, which is why I got through the first turn better off than I normally would when losing initiative to the DE. Later in the game, I did not move out, because DE were already in range with some of their stuff, while the choicier targets (gunboats and venoms) were hiding behind terrain and likely out of range. Moving out would also have lost the cover provided by the warriors.

If I knew I was going against DE I would have packed a Lith and lost the Ctan as the Ctan are poison -frail and DE really struggle against Liths.

Since that was a league game, I thought it was fair not to customize the list. Essentially you dispatch the battle barge (or whatever the Necrons have for equivalent) before you know who will show up to fight on the particular planet. I think Brothererekose did the same - on list for all - so it is only fair. But yes, monoliths would have worked better against DE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollowmirror wrote:well the deceiver ruling is based on the c'tan rules for decieve saying that before blows are struck during the opponents assault phase the deceiver may leave combat and consolidate d6" followed by any enemy units that were in combat with the deceiver at the start of the assault.

Can you point out whence the d6 consolidation rule? Is it in some newer FAQ? I think the codex says he can make a fallback move, so 2d6''. This is important because sometimes I want the Deceiver to contest objectives. If I roll high on 2d6, that messes up that plan. If it is a fallback move, why is it in any direction? Another one of those GW "rulings off the hip".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

woodbok wrote:I didn't like the Necron list at all, but good report!

What are the problems with it? What is your favorite Necron list and how do you play it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ascalam wrote:They do, and any other saves as well. Well spotted. All CC attacks from a Ctan ignore saves of any kind, including invulnerable saves.

They are also MCs, with high end Str, which makes them nasty vs vehicles (unless i try to use them to break AV 12+, then i'll roll a lot of 1's... )

I think the codex says MC, but there is no reference to ignoring invulnerable saves. Is this from a FAQ? This is very important - if so, screwing it up on that rule has already cost me at least one league game (against DKs).

By the way, speaking of FAQs, I read the 2009 one just now. It appears the warscythe upgrage for the Lord makes him lose the shooting attacks from the staff of light. Very strange, since the pariahs' weapon is a warscythe that functions as a necron blaster as well. Why would the Necron Lord be upgraded to be armed with less than what a pariah gets as standard?? I always played it as a staff of light that gets the warscythe ability on the upgrade. Apparently, very wrongly so.

The Veil is a useful, but very expensive, upgrade. The lord only gets 100 pts of wargear. If you bamph him around with a shooty unit it can be quite useful, but in a scenery-heavy table it can be a bit suicidal. The solar flare can be helpful, but as Necron guns are almost all short ranged it has limited utility even in Dawn of War, unless you plan on putting your warrior units and/or lord waaay forward to get them in range to make use of the ability to see when the enemy cannot. Blinding the enemy is occasionally useful, but generally after turn one they'll be close enough to limit it's utility. The Lord also lacks an invulnerable save, and can be instakilled by S 10 weapons. His armour is easily bypassed by melta/plasma fire, making him a bit vulnerable for an HQ.

The lack of the orb limits your troops ability to stand up, as ranged weapons at S 8 + will put them down with no WBB, as will power weapons and similar.

The Destroyer Lord is very mobile, without having to worry about deepstrike scatter or being stuck in the open after striking in, and can turboboost to get him from point A to point B fast. The Destroyer body also negates ID from S 10 weapons and ups his toughness by 1. The Phase Shifter helps bounce anything ugly enough to punch holes in him and ignore his armour, and the Orb keeps the units near him coming back. I usually attach him to a Destroyer unit, and have them zoom around the field. It could be a personal preference thing, but i've had far more surviabiliy from this loadout, and with a warscythe he can play tankhunter pretty well. Running 3 units of destroyers with a lord with an orb affords them a lot of survivability, as they can wbb no matter what kills them, and of a whole unit is wiped out near the ord it will join his unit when they wbb.


Castling: Fair enough. I usually turboboost them for a 3+ cover save as soo as i can get them moving. Your tactic makes more sense with the explanation. I think I play a bit more aggressive with my Destroyers, and count on the decent toughness and armour to protect them from anything short of anti-tank weapons

Leage game: Fair enough. I don't consider taking a Lith to be taioring the list vs Dark Eldar, as they are good against anyone. They are almost mandatory in the current meta. I don't generally list-tailor, preferring an all-comers list, but it's very rare that i'll not take a Lith. The Lith also allows a lot more mobility to a transport challenged army.

Ctan: The ctan special rules list that they ignore all saves with their cose combat attacks. I'm at work right now, but 'll bounce you a page number/quote when i get hiome, if no-one else has by then.

Warscythes. Shame, but yeah. Why they can't have it built in is beyond me, but there you go..







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ctan ignoring all saves is under the Ctan special rules on pg 27 of the Codex.

Its under the Monstrous Creature entry. Monstrous creatures ignore all armour saves, and in addition Ctan ignore invulnerable saves . Immune to Natural Law also gives yoy frag grenades and the ability to walk through terrain

wooo what a narrow victory good game all around. damn them liquifier guns!~