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Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




In my second game i took the following against dark elves :

-Captain BSB
-Warrior priest with speculum
-36 swordsmen, standard, musician, characters here
-2 units of 6 knights with greatweapons and musicians
-2 mortars
-1 canon

In 1000 pts

Knights on the flanks, war machines on a hill in the middle, infantry to the right of the hill.

Against a dark elf army of :

-2 units of 18 crossbows
-2 units of 18 spearmen
-Master on a horse, with a 1+ armor save and 4+ ward
-6 harpies
-1 bolt thrower

Both units of crossbows were out of range, the two spearmen blocks were facing my infantry and knights on the right, the master was behind the spearmen, harpies on the left flank, bolt thrower on a hill.

He took first turn and opted to only move the harpies and crossbows closer. Bolt thrower killed 3 infantry, crossbows caused one wound on the canon. In my first turn i opted to stand still and shoot it out, killing 15 crossbows and the canon taking out the bolt thrower. By the second turn he complained that i was running a competitive gunline and wasn't making it very fun.

My question is...what did i do wrong? How do i make a match "fun"?

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in au
Dangerous Outrider





by not using the maximum number of artillery, Mortars are pretty powerful in small games.
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Lotet wrote:by not using the maximum number of artillery, Mortars are pretty powerful in small games.


But the maximum is 75%(50% special 25% rare). As it is i dont think i would have stopped a 30 strong unit of chaos warriors from wrecking the swordsmen even with both mortars, and it probably wouldnt be enough against skaven, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/02 09:06:48


Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in us
Paingiver





I will say you were probably running the more competitive list, which is fun for you but not fun for him. Bringing 2 mortars to a 1k game is totally legal but you'll be known as TFG. You aren't going to get more games against people if it's not at least enjoyable for them too.

Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
-Alexis de Tocqueville. 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Hargus56 wrote:I will say you were probably running the more competitive list, which is fun for you but not fun for him. Bringing 2 mortars to a 1k game is totally legal but you'll be known as TFG. You aren't going to get more games against people if it's not at least enjoyable for them too.


Whats wrong with two mortars in 1k pts?

20 repeater crossbows will on average cause the equavelent of 20 mortar wounds, which is better than a mortar since they dont misfire, scatter and cause more hits than when firing at blocks of 20 or less infantry, and count towards core. Although they do cost a lot more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/02 10:35:52


Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator






DC Suburbs



This sort of crap really gets on my nerves. I lose all the time. Constantly. You know what? If I lose, its because I need to play better. Recently I had such a bad first turn in a casual game that I asked my opponent if we can just start over because I tried something stupid and it failed. I was playing OnG vs DE. I coulda just whined that DE are overpowered, but no, I am responsible for my own game... and my own attitude about said game.

If one's failures are all the fault of your opponent, how does one expect to improve?

Your list is fine. Your opponent should play better. That said, if your opponent is having a hard time, and its not a tourney (i.e. nothing on the line if you lose), why not alter your play style a bit so johnny wet diaper doesn't throw a tantrum?

Do I get frustrated? Of course. But that just feeds into the need to improve... the one exception is having a bad run and your opponent paddling his douchecanoe up victory river. This is TFG, not list construction.



TL;DR -
Fun really is less to do about what is on the table as it is the attitudes while playing. Were you guys laughing and joking? Were you cheering his victories as much as your own? Or were you relentlessly smashing his face in? Could you have defused the situation by changing playstyle, or chatting, or buying him a beer / soda after?

"When your only tools are duct tape and a shovel, all of life's problems start to look the same!" - kronk

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Darth Helmet

"History...is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortune of mankind" - Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




We were playing online at a site called www.universalbattle.com, and we didnt really chit chat.

His main complaint was that i was shooting his army to pieces without moving once, and he expected me to charge him since i had knights (which was why he didnt move the spearmen even though he took first turn).

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in gb
Mad Gyrocopter Pilot




Scotland

Question wrote:We were playing online at a site called www.universalbattle.com, and we didnt really chit chat.

His main complaint was that i was shooting his army to pieces without moving once, and he expected me to charge him since i had knights (which was why he didnt move the spearmen even though he took first turn).


Because he assumed wrong about how you play your army is his fault not yours. I dont see anything wrong with your list. You win some you lose some. If I had been the dark elf player I would have taken a sorceress. Even a level 2 can really mess up an enemies army at 1k points. Lore of metal would have stood a good chance of turning things his way even with your warrior priest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/02 13:22:05


 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




Victoria B.C.

If your opponent runs a 30 man warrior unit he may be doing something wrong since that is bloody many points.

Ya he really screwed up there is no reason anyone should avoid getting close to an empire army.

Um a fun game is when both people have fun usually you try something new and silly in a fun game or you just play for the sake of it and the win dosnt matter.

But ya he screwed up and no magic what is this be glad you didnt go up against anything that loves magic.

Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854
Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos
Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!

Do you have enough Priests do you?
 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






Columbus, Ohio

Artillery is very powerful in 8th Edition, and Mortars are incredibly lethal against T3, low armor save troops. Whether or not you meant to, you brought an army that stood a very good chance of completely eliminating your opponent's force before he got anywhere near you. If you want to play a more "fun" game, try bringing an army that does a little bit of everything, but isn't overly specialized into any one field. Balanced armies tend to make for better games, since you won't end up accidentally steam-rolling someone with a single element of your force.

Jagdmacht, my Imperial Guard Project Log 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




Victoria B.C.

Very ture ya mortars are nasty but then again this list isnt that well built ver little magic resistance I dont expect a lvl4 but the enemy might bring a lvl 2 for magic sake.

Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854
Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos
Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!

Do you have enough Priests do you?
 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought




Potters Bar, UK

Its not really your fault he didnt enjoy the game. Yeah you brought a bit of a ball-bagging army to a 1k game, but him not moving forward and therefore playing to your advantage is his own mistake.

I agree that maybe a slightly less WAAC army might be the best idea (not accusing, im just saying it is a bit harsh at low points), he does need to grow up a bit, losses happen ,and if they happen because your opponent outsmarted you (by not moving forward with the knights for example) then thats your fault for not seeing al the options.

inmygravenimage wrote:Have courage, faith and beer, my friend - it will be done!
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Anonymity breeds aggression.
Chowderhead wrote:Just hit the "Triangle of Friendship", as I call it.
 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




I didnt bring a mage because there was no points left, i had close to 25% in the priest + BSB as it is.

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard



In ur gaem, killin ur doodz.

Question wrote:
Lotet wrote:by not using the maximum number of artillery, Mortars are pretty powerful in small games.


But the maximum is 75%(50% special 25% rare). As it is i dont think i would have stopped a 30 strong unit of chaos warriors from wrecking the swordsmen even with both mortars, and it probably wouldnt be enough against skaven, etc.


Negatory, you can't bleed special points into rare points.

If you have a 2k point army

You can not eschew rares and buy 1500 points of Special

You can have no more than 500 points in lords
No more than 500 points in heroes
must have 500 points in Core
no more than 1000 points in special
and no more than 500 points in rare.

Also: It's pretty clear in the book, this is a beer and pretzels game, therefore more beer=morefun.

8th ed Khemri in 8-4-0
Malleus wrote:The swordsmen will tar pit nearly anything nearly forever (definitely long enough for the old tank in the flank prank).

 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




I never said you could bleed special into rare?

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in us
Deadly Tomb Guard



In ur gaem, killin ur doodz.

Question wrote:
Lotet wrote:by not using the maximum number of artillery, Mortars are pretty powerful in small games.


But the maximum is 75%(50% special 25% rare). As it is i dont think i would have stopped a 30 strong unit of chaos warriors from wrecking the swordsmen even with both mortars, and it probably wouldnt be enough against skaven, etc.



Bolded for emphasis

Looks to me like you did.

8th ed Khemri in 8-4-0
Malleus wrote:The swordsmen will tar pit nearly anything nearly forever (definitely long enough for the old tank in the flank prank).

 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Oh i was talking about 75% of total points for warmachines(spending 50% on special canons and 25% on hellblasters).

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

He had two main problems as far as I could tell.

1. His list wasn't that competitive.

2. He used his one competitive unit poorly. Why on earth did he fire the bolt thrower at the swordsmen and not your artillery? Or was it out of range?

Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up about how many artillery pieces you take. After all GW has created constraints (i.e. 50% special, no more than 3 of each unit type) to try and make the game as fair as possible. If you play within these constraints, you're not doing an awful lot wrong IMHO...

...that said. You can have more fun by creating match lists i.e. fairly low powered armies that are more about troops than reaping spectacular destruction. For example, I play 1000pts fairly regularly (I like small games ) and use my own constraints which I try to stick to as closely as possible. These are as follows...

2 Characters. 1 of which will be a level 2 Wizard.
4 Core Units, but no more than 20 missile troops.
1 Special Unit (less than 250pts)
1 Rare Unit (less than 200pts)

Magic in 8th tends to be all about spectacular destruction so to tone it down, we allocate the wizard the signature spell and then roll a D3 for the other spell. This avoids the nasty stuff towards the back end of the lore.

This set up tends to lead to some pretty fair (and fun!) games, but obviously you need a friend who is willing to play within these constraints.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/03 08:38:52


   
Made in ca
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




Victoria B.C.

What who dosnt love a good ol throw 6 dice at it spell haha but ya flash summed it up it also depends who you play against some people have a different idea of fun like personally I enjoy an intense game against a good opponent with a strong army build (not pure cheese) but a good strong army and having a really good game and win or loose I had a good time thats what it comes down to the close wins adn losses are the best tho

So aim for something that will push the enemy pretty hard but no need to cheese like those elves and that teclis junk.

Point being no one has a problem with war machines or tanks just no need to spam in a non tournament setting.

Sorry for the ramble but ya thats how I think a fun game is made (possibly take something that can be risky but not something that will destroy and make you loose if it dosnt work).

Anyways play nice with others

Overview of the WoC army book.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/388667.page#3171854
Ralin Givens is the chaos to my warriors. Ra Ra Ra go team awesome I mean chaos
Tzack Vahr Zhen's unholy followers.
all hail Howie Mandel deal or no deal it dosnt matter tzeentch wins
Khorne flakes part of a good breakfast when you plan to kill maim and burn all!!!

Do you have enough Priests do you?
 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Bolt throwers cant hurt warmachines.

1/2 chance to hit, 1/3 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to kill it on the first hit. That comes to about If my calculations are right that comes out to about a 5.6% chance to kill it in the first hit, and 16.7% chance to wound it at all.

Play warhammer fantasy online : www.universalbattle.com 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





The best way to make it more likely that you're going to have fun is to talk to your opponent before the game, and build a mutual understanding of what you both expect and enjoy in a game.

That can mean changing the rules up, like Flash's magic rule that takes out the really powerful spells, or just coming to a general agreement about the power level you both want to play.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





Devon

Hmm I know its frustrating when people make a nice fluffy army, that looks good and has a theme, that gets steamrollered by a bit of a cheesey list, especially if it isnt painted.

However in this case your list didnt seem to be that bad, perhaps try and theme your army around an idea or piece of fluff, this tends to result in a list that can still be competitive but rarely forms one that would be considered too much or OP by any stretch of the imagination.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/340090.page - my Heresy era Blood Angels

BA 1500pts and counting
He 1500pts unpainted
Corbulo is practicaly Jesus with a chainsword  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




England

My tip is to enjoy the game, enjoy the social occasion with a friend. When I play good people and am certain I'll lose, I make sure that I laugh and enjoy it, while putting up a good fight.

'More fire needed. Bigger hammer required.'  
   
 
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