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this is something that has been eating at my side for so time...
While all the space marine Chapters and imperial Guard are kicking but all around the 40k universe where the hell are all the Civilians and what do they do?

I mean a good percent of the human population are in the war efforts and there are forge worlds scatted around the galaxy but who runs theres forge worlds?

I no that space marines can go on for weeks with out food or water but imperial guard are normal humans like us too my knowledge so who feeds them? I mean here on Earth we strugle to feed some 6 billion people on ONE plant while the Imperiam has countless. Are there like Agricultural planets that just produce food or something?

can somebody shed light on this Question for me?

They make more civilians.


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All the time.

I will agree, you don't hear much about civilians in neither the game or the stories. Their are a few characters who are civilians, but that's it.

I no that space marines can go on for weeks with out food or water but imperial guard are normal humans like us too my knowledge so who feeds them? I mean here on Earth we strugle to feed some 6 billion people on ONE plant while the Imperiam has countless. Are there like Agricultural planets that just produce food or something?

Yes, there are entire worlds dedicated to the production of food for the rest of the Imperium. These are called Agri-Worlds, whether these worlds are covered in fruit orchards, seas of grains, vast, roving herds of grox, or are water-worlds where floating ship-cities harvest fish, plankton and kelp for export, makes no difference to this designation.

My DH players refer to Agri-Worlds, in their entirety, as Planet Iowa.

Where are the civilians? I can think of about 10 books where you see civilians...
Considering that both the game and a large majority of the books are focused on fighting it's kinda understandable that they would be somewhat absent.

The civilians are all over the place, but honestly, whats more exciting....hearing the stories of how the Imperial Guard and Space Marines helped to save a sector of the galaxy from invasion or the story of joe nobody sitting inside a hive world putting together yet another of the eleven billion lasguns they produce every month?

The civilians are all over the planets of the imperium, you just never hear much about them because this game is a wargame, not a resource heavy RTS game.

Quite a few of them are lined up in queues, waiting for petitions, food, or entrance to a shrine. Billions are on their way to visit, or coming back from pilgrimages. Lucky ones even get to go offworld!

Billions upon billions more are Administratum, not sure if you count them as civilians. They're official imperial servants nonetheless.

I haven't read a whole lot of non-canon books but Execution Hour and the Eisenhorn Trilogy mention civ populations quite a bit.

If you want to see Civilians, read the Eisinhorn and Ravenor books.

they basically give a good overview of the different city types through their travels.



Civilians, as is to be expected, don't like being in a warzone.

most battles are fought away from civies or in places they have abandoned/fled.

the fluff often mentions the wanton slaughter that certain forces will inflict on civilians. most often the Imperial response arrives too late to save them.

Grey Templar wrote:
the fluff often mentions the wanton slaughter that certain forces will inflict on civilians. most often the Imperial response arrives too late to save them.

Or wanton slaughter inflicted by Grey Knights when they arrive on time

For different types of planets such as agri-worlds, civilised worlds, hive worlds etc try looking at this page, specifically the links under the heading "The Galaxy." I'm just reading through the Cain books and it seems all of them so far take place on worlds with civilians. I've just started Duty Calls, and Caves of Ice was the only novel so far where the story didn't spend a lot of time in towns or cities, though there were still a few industrial workers in that one.

You might want to read the Eisenhorn and Gaunt's Ghosts novel series. Both feature rather many civilians compared to other works.
But basically it's like everyone else said: the civilians work. Whether they are adamantium miners, promethium refinery workers, bakers, farmers, sculptors, scribes, photographers, shepherds, people who carry the umbrellas of rich people, salesmen, barmen, printers, or just busy making sure the Imperium doesn't run out of bodies, the general population just goes about their days like you would expect.

They are busy being butchered by orks, inquisitors, space marines, chaos cultits, etc etc

thanks for the replies I knew that they have too be somewhere but I could not find fluff anywhere on them. True thou I do prefer to hear more about the space marines and so on but the only time that I have ever evan seen a Civvie was in the one cinematic in Dawn of War 2 when tirinids arrive on Caldaris and start ripping them to little pieces.

They're just like regular people. They make commericial, military and personal goods for other people, farm, stuff like that. Most Civilians would be pretty boring.

I know that they would be boring but I did just like to know where are they? I mean besides being slaughtered.

Nightfall wrote:I know that they would be boring but I did just like to know where are they? I mean besides being slaughtered.

They are fairly easy to find...
Read the Gaunts Ghosts novels or the Eisenhorn series... also the Cain series has a few...
Actually now i think of it quite a few do.

There are many different worlds in the IoM, some are forge worlds, marine home worlds, shrine worlds and also agriworlds where food is produce. The population of agriworlds are few compared to hive worlds because the entirety of an agriworld is devoted to producing food for other worlds. Hive worlds also recycle food, making waste into paste.

Civvies generally live in the Hive cities and you do not see much of them because thier lives are too dull, many work repititive and mindless jobs while others are gangers or take up odd jobs. Thats about it I guess. if you want to read about civvies, I think the Ravenor and the Gaunt's Ghost book about Vervunhive may provide you with some insight.

The 40k tabletop is about armies fighting each other. Asking where the non-combatants are is like going to a boxing match and asking where the wrestlers are.

Kroothawk wrote:The 40k tabletop is about armies fighting each other. Asking where the non-combatants are is like going to a boxing match and asking where the SPECTATORS are.

Fixed that. Makes more sense because wrestlers are the ''armies fighting each other'' while non-combatants would represent the spectators?

Conservationist wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:The 40k tabletop is about armies fighting each other. Asking where the non-combatants are is like going to a boxing match and asking where the SPECTATORS are.

Fixed that. Makes more sense because wrestlers are the ''armies fighting each other'' while non-combatants would represent the spectators?

No, you didn't fix it.

His point, which was pretty much spot on, was that civilians tend to be evacuated from the combat zones, drafted into the Guard/PDF(which ties into the next one), or killed at the outset of hostilities in 40k. By the time the Imperial Guard or Astartes get involved, things have majorly hit the fan.

On another note, the Imperium also tends to have its bigger and more important defensive structures away from major population centers. Not for any humanitarian reasons, but because it cuts down on access for any potential insurgents and it cuts down on access routes through utility lines.

Civilians are not represented in a wargame, because civilians are non-combatants...

In fluff they make handy sacrifices and collateral damage...

Some of you guys are implying that the OP asking about civilians in 40k is a foolish question. While there's no place for it in 'official' tournament style 40k, civilians can provide a really interesting twist to a scenario game. Requiring players to evacuate a planetary governor along with his entire family, Frateris assisting with the defense of a shrine, etc.

White Dwarf had a battle report quite a few years ago featuring a 40k refight of Rourke's Drift that included civilians stuck in the compound... that was a great battle report. I'm sure when necrons were first released, lab techs were part of a scenario.

Civilians can provide an unexpected twist to wargames, particularly if one or both sides need them alive at the end of the game (so theyre not gratuitous meat shields, after all civilian death in warfare is not a savory subject).

Keep in mind many, if not most, historical and modern miniature manufacturers make civilian figures- because they are easily incorporated into games. In the early days of 40k GW even produced a line of 'Adventurers' including several civs (miners, tech adepts, test-bed slaves, even a ratling cook!). I wish they would make more civs, but considering the absence of narrative and the emphasis on competitive play it won't happen.

I think it was a good question, and imcluding civs can lead to fun games outside of the forgettable line up and shoot stuff.

Frateris assisting with the defense of a shrine aren't civilians. The Frateris are also referred to as "Frateris Militia".

The point, however, is that civilians in combat are the exception--not the rule.

Kanluwen wrote:Frateris assisting with the defense of a shrine aren't civilians. The Frateris are also referred to as "Frateris Militia".

The point, however, is that civilians in combat are the exception--not the rule.

Fair enough, although as irregular combatants I'd say the Frateris are partisans, and are about the closest thing to an ordinary civilian miniature GW has released in twenty years.

I fully understand the point as well. It's pretty clear they're the exception. However, there's no reason why the OP can't include them if he has a mind to, it just takes a little imagination and an opponent wiling to try something other than straight scenarios.

I don't think he is looking for scenarios...

Dr Mathias wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Frateris assisting with the defense of a shrine aren't civilians. The Frateris are also referred to as "Frateris Militia".

The point, however, is that civilians in combat are the exception--not the rule.

Fair enough, although as irregular combatants I'd say the Frateris are partisans, and are about the closest thing to an ordinary civilian miniature GW has released in twenty years.

By that logic, Sisters of Battle are partisans as well.

The Frateris are "irregular combatants" in the loosest sense. The Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed to have any standing force of men at arms. So they cheated and created the Sororitas orders to serve as their 'military' arm.

The Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, and the Adeptus Astartes are the only military forces of the Imperium at large. The various Planetary Defense Forces fall under the a vaguery of "they're military, but not" in that they're servants of the Imperial Governor but they put their world before any others.

I fully understand the point as well. It's pretty clear they're the exception. However, there's no reason why the OP can't include them if he has a mind to, it just takes a little imagination and an opponent willing to try something other than straight scenarios.

Except he's not asking for scenarios to incorporate civilians. He's not asking anything other than "Where are all the civilians?".

The answer is: where they should be in Warhammer 40,000. The background. There's agricultural worlds that feed the Guard, there's the menials of the Forge Worlds who toil day in and day out for the Mechanicus overseers, etc.

I apologize for posting into this thread and taking it in the wrong direction. I wrongly presumed that the OP might want to do something applicable with the information he was asking for.

Dr Mathias wrote:I apologize for posting into this thread and taking it in the wrong direction. I wrongly presumed that the OP might want to do something applicable with the information he was asking for.

You don't have to apologize, nor did you take it in the wrong direction. Threads evolve a bit as posting is done.

The important thing to remember when dealing with background is that not always will questions be intended for gameplay or scenarios. Some people write backgrounds up for their armies or just have things nitpicking at them.

Dr Mathias wrote: While there's no place for it in 'official' tournament style 40k, civilians can provide a really interesting twist to a scenario game. Requiring players to evacuate a planetary governor along with his entire family, Frateris assisting with the defense of a shrine, etc.
.

I agree here like a game mode where you have to get information/protect for an civilian informant then run back too your/enemy side of the board with him alive while the enemy has to kill him or just keep you away from him or something like that.


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or maybe even like a Counter Strike protect the hostage situation?...

Could be interesting to come up with some rules for incorporating civilians. Maybe a Cities of Death type game where one side is trying to capture the civilians while another is trying to get them to an evacauation point. Maybe the civilians need to be escorted, and if their escorting unit dies you roll to see how the civilians react. Really there are many possibilities...