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On the table, a Land Speeder and Storm Raven is the lightest and fastest vehicle within the Blood Angels armoury. Sporting a mere Armour Value 10 on all sides, the Speeder is capable of being wounded even by basic armaments. The effectiveness of the Rush is improved if you have more than one Raven, obviously. A combination of Land Speeders and Stormravens works great exception for battling Dark Eldar. When I'm battling Dark Eldar, their Ravagers and Warriors gives them way more speed and firepower than I'm able too handle. I've been in games were Dark Eldar destroy forty percent of my army on the first turn. I hoping for some advice on my Blood Angels army list for going against Dark Eldar.

My 2000 points Blood Angels Army.
Dante
Librarian w/ Unleash Rage, Fear of the Darkness, Jump Pack
Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack
Furioso Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
Furioso Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor
Full Assault Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns, Sergent w/ Power Weapon, Inferno Pistol
Full Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Missle Launcher, Sergent w/ Power Weapon in a Drop Pod
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, TML
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter, TML
Rifleman Dread in a Pod
Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon, TL MM, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor
Storm Raven w/ TL Assault Cannon, TL MM, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor
These are my Tactics.
1. Protected by transport’s hull against nasty powers and shooting, before assaulting (enemy may get first turn, or Seize).
2. Raven cracks enemy transports and/or softens enemy with shooting before the charge.
3.Use Land Speeders Frag Missile to reap heavy casualties on close packed enemies and 6x Krak Missiles to threaten any type of Dark Eldar vehicle.

My opponent 2000 pts Dark Eldar Army.

HQ
The Baron
Archon, huskblade, soul trap, phantasm grenade launcher, shadow field
Elites
7 Incubi, Raider, flickerfield (bodyguard for the Archon)
Troops
10 Warriors, splinter cannon, blaster, Raider, flickerfield
10 Warriors, splinter cannon, blaster, Raider, flickerfield
10 Wyches, two shardnet and impalers, leader (name escapes me right now), agoniser, Raider, flickerfield
14 Hellions, leader, agoniser
Fast Attack
9 Reavers, three blasters
Heavy Support
Ravager, nightshield, flickerfield
Ravager, nightshield, flickerfield
Ravager, nightshield, flickerfield

My opponent General Ravagers to stay out of the way and take out my armour at range. His Incubi and Wyches focus on infantry with support from the Warriors, whilst the Reavers and Hellions go around trouble shooting.

One of your main problems is that half your points are spent on hardware. ( things with AV). You couldn't find a worse army to field mech against. You need long range fire support. It could be Devestators. Sternguard could also be awesome against your opponent. Tailoring becomes an option when win/lose ratio becomes too annoying to be fun.
In this case it is obvious that your speed and range is inferior to your opponent. More gunline style. Use cover. Counter attack if he reaches out. Concentrated marine formation to reach out for objectives turn 4/5. I don't see much template in his army.
In short: less/no vehicles more marines.

Hope it helps.

I would say putting the Stormravens and Speeders in Reserve. Use the other things as bait for them too come out from hiding and speed On with you Stormravens and Speeders and pop their transport.

Ever thought of running Baal Predators? Outflanking Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon Baals would wreck those ravagers right up

As a DE player, I live in fear of the day my local SMs realise it's not worth trying to go into assault with me & instead decide to shoot it out with me. I've found Rifleman dreds pretty effective against my stuff, as well as Dev & Sterngard squads. Thunderfire cannons also ruin my day, but I'm not sure if BE can get them. I'm also not sure what the drop pods are for - DE are fast enough that they'll be dictating the terms of any assaults most of the time anyway. So yeah, I'll echo what everyone else has said here - get fire support, line up along your board edge and shoot it out with them.

Rather than go into intricate detail, I'm just going to give you this:

3x Auto/las predators
3x Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter Baal Predators
4-6 razorbacks sporting las/plas or heavy bolters.

Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius.

No Dark Eldar player has the firepower to nuke your anti-tank in the first turn, and you've got ample ability to punish a DE player for trying.

I agree with Dash, except I feel that Heavy Bolter sponsons on Baal Predators are a waste against most general metas. Against DE, they're obviously great.

The big problem with your list is that it's horribly unfocused. The only bad choice is the Tactical squad, but you don't have enough redundancy, and the Stormravens aren't pulling their weight. Plus, Dante is a massive waste of points.

You should do one of three things: Build the list Dash is recommending (most competitive choice), build a Stormraven list (you'd need to get some TH/SS Terminators, probably a few DC Marines too, and lots more Assault Marines), or build an all-infantry list.

I change my army list Less speed more range fire power, and my land supporting my tactic; squad. Storm raven will deep strike mephiston and death company dreadnought.
It will great.

************* *************** 2 HQ
Mephiston
- - -> 250 points

Scriptor
- Shield of Sanguinius
- Blood Boil
- - -> 100 points
*************** *************** 1 Elite
Sanguiniuspriester
- - -> 50 points

Sanguiniuspriester
- Flame Gun
- - -> 60 points
*************** *************** 3 standard
Tactical Squad
10 Space Marines
- Melter
- Rocket launchers
+ Upgrade to Sergeant
- 1 x combi-flamer
+ - Land Raider Crusader
- - -> 435 points
Tactical Squad
10 Space Marines
- Flame Thrower
- Rocket launchers
+ Upgrade to Sergeant
- - -> 170 points
Death Company Dreadnought
- A pair of blood fists
- Storm Bolter & Melter
- - -> 125 points
*************** *************** 2 storm
Land Speeder Squadron
+ Land Speeder
- Heavy bolter
- Typhoon missile launchers
+ Land Speeder
- Heavy bolter
- Heavy bolter
- - -> 150 points
Baal Predator
- Synchronized Assault Cannon
- Page domes with heavy bolters
- - -> 145 points
*************** *************** 3 Support
Storm Raven-landing ship
- Typhoon missile launchers
- Synchronized Assault Cannon
- Page domes with hurricane bolter systems
- - -> 255 points

Devastor Squad
7 Space Marines
- 4 x Heavy Bolter
+ Upgrade to Sergeant
- - -> 162 points

Predator
- Machine Gun
- Page domes with heavy bolters
- - -> 100 points


Total points Blood Angels: 2002

Honestly, I don't think you should have much trouble against that DE list.... Blast the ravagers first, get the incubi tied up in CC with a dread (same with hellions), and the rest is cake

I question the logic behind having Mephiston in your list when fighting so many poisoned weapons. He can't join another squad, and thus will be hammered by the many poisoned shots coming his way. Played my DE against some BA two weeks ago, and ol' Phisty didn't make it far because of my True-Venom squads shooting him lots. Even the Archon would give him a run.

headrattle wrote:I question the logic behind having Mephiston in your list when fighting so many poisoned weapons. He can't join another squad, and thus will be hammered by the many poisoned shots coming his way. Played my DE against some BA two weeks ago, and ol' Phisty didn't make it far because of my True-Venom squads shooting him lots. Even the Archon would give him a run.

I agree completely with this statement.

From my experience when using Meph v/s DE, he was killed only after causing so much trouble. One game, he soaked up so 40+ poisoned shots yet still survived! After the 1st 20+ shots, my opponent swore that my dice were loaded. We swapped dice..lo & behold..he lived still muahahaha!!

I swear, 2+ armour, W5 & FnP (courtesy of Sang-Priest nearby), he's not half-bad to be used in any BA army.

MarshallDin wrote:From my experience when using Meph v/s DE, he was killed only after causing so much trouble. One game, he soaked up so 40+ poisoned shots yet still survived! After the 1st 20+ shots, my opponent swore that my dice were loaded. We swapped dice..lo & behold..he lived still muahahaha!!

I swear, 2+ armour, W5 & FnP (courtesy of Sang-Priest nearby), he's not half-bad to be used in any BA army.

Best HQ in the dex

Dash is the guy to listen to, he is one of the best players out there and specialises in DE; he will know what hurts him.

Against DE (and against everything else...) you want everything in a transport, disregard what Taranis said, he's simply wrong. DE have so many poison shots which infantry just die horribly to, its not even funny. Anything sitting out in the open are sitting ducks for the incubi and hellions. The real advantage that DE have over you is speed, though they only get that from their weak transports which can be downed and stun locked (can't move/shoot that turn and therefore may as well be dead).

With both of the above points in mind, razorbacks with TL PG/LC are a great bet. Arm the guys on the inside with a flamer and you have something that can shoot stuff out the sky and then kill the guys inside. Fill your HS slots, all 3, with predators with LC side sponsons and an autocannon. If you want a list that is just good against DE, heavy bolters may be better than LC on the predators.

Baal predators are the best FS choice, as they will be harder to kill than the land speeder and better at killing the raiders. They can also shoot the incubi and hellions up ok.

2 librarians with Shield of Sanguine should be able to give your transports 4+ cover, which will lead you to have better armour, stronger guns and better saving throw than your opponent, and more vehicles.

The incubi and the hellions don't seem to have equipment to deal with vehicles in combat, so running CC dreads into them will lead to insta- win. Librarian dreads with wings and might are the best imo, the 12" move means that they actually have a chance of getting into combat and the psychic defence they provide is very handy.

I'm in the same position as you, I play DE a lot and therefore my list is geared slightly towards them, not purposely but because the units that work best in my game tend to survive and those that don't are replaced, and since I play most DE there is a slight bias. Anyway, this is the list I would suggest:

HQ: Librarian, Sword and Shield, 100
HQ: Librarian, Sword and Shield, 100

EL: Furioso Librarian Dreadnought, Wings and Might, 175
EL: Furioso Librarian Dreadnought, Wings and Might, 175

TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback, 160
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback, 160
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback, 160
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback, 160
TR: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback, 160

FA: Baal Predator 115
FA: Baal Predator 115

HS: Predator, Lascannon Sponsons, 135
HS: Predator, Lascannon Sponsons, 135
HS: Predator, Lascannon Sponsons, 135

1,985 points

If you want to really tailor it, dropping a dread and taking an extra AC/HB baal predator, and giving HB to the other baal's may be a good idea.

Unless I'm mistaken, Shield of Sanguinus doesn't give +1 to cover save, it gives a 5+ cover save - so multiples wouldn't stack.

Dash is correct. Shield gives you a 5+ cover save. The Grey Knights have a power (The Shrouding) that gives the Librarian's unit +1 to their cover save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OP: Shoebox's list is a good example of what to do. It's a good all around list, and rough on DE. I'd get some Meltaguns in there, though, for all comers.

Oh right, I thought it worked just like the KFF but I double checked rules and the KFF specifies the 4+ with vehicles. I thought vehicles could only get a 4+ and never anything else (the choice of words in the rules was rather strong, if I remember, it does say it gets a 4+ or it doesn't, though I guess I got that wrong. Whoops.

TL;DR: In my experience, you are most likely to get to use flamers than meltas effectively. (expanded below...)

I'm not keen on the melta's. I've only played a few games with BA (god, last time I played must have been about 2 month's ago...) with them and I don't think I ever had the chance to fire the melta's at a vehicle. Your opponent rarely has any reason to move his vehicles within effective range of the meltas and has the speed to keep away from guys on foot with meltas. I found on many occasions that moving my vehicles so that I could use the meltas would endanger the vehicle and getting the foot unit out to be shot to death was rarely worth it. An extra 5 melta shots at the expense of your scoring units is hardly worth it. If found on far more occasions where the flamers would have come in useful. Once the tank had been popped, the guys would generally hide behind something and stay there as a defensive unit to guard something and so act of a sort of crappy counter assault. I remember shooting before a charge thinking 'what a waste of a melta shot...' so many times.

Also, one of the games I played was against a friends battle wagon list. I'm not the best player in the world, but I'm not completely clueless. I do think it was one of the earlier evolutions of my current list, baal's had flamestorm cannons and I don't think I had the dreads, but my god was that a fast game. He was on me about turn 2, and proceeded to rolf stomp me, even though one of my 5 man units took out about 20 orks with a PK nob (I gak you not...). I had nothing that could deal with hordes in any way, shape or form. The flamers really could of helped in that game, but tbh I'm gona run some honour guard with 4 flamers in a las/plas razor in future rather than the baal's for some much needed anti- horde.

Dashofpepper wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, Shield of Sanguinus doesn't give +1 to cover save, it gives a 5+ cover save - so multiples wouldn't stack.

Correct, however BA libbies are cheap hq, can use a power on the ba turn and still shield on the de turn, can cover a larger area under shield, and the #1 reason to take 2 against de is that nobody is better at hq assassination than de. The idea of taking 2 has some merit, especially if the ba player doesn't think he can protect one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:Rather than go into intricate detail, I'm just going to give you this:

3x Auto/las predators
3x Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter Baal Predators
4-6 razorbacks sporting las/plas or heavy bolters.

Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius.

No Dark Eldar player has the firepower to nuke your anti-tank in the first turn, and you've got ample ability to punish a DE player for trying.

Well if your going to tailor a list, tailor a list

3X Rifleman dreads
3X TL AC/HB Baal Preds
6 Razorbacks with 6 TLAC and 6 assault squads with flamers
1 libby with shield

24" range on a fast vehicle is livable, especially when you start the game with 36 TL AC shots.

Of course the list I just gave would be absolutely terrible against most MEQ armies, and would get eaten alive by a DoA BA list. In the end list tailoring is a crutch, new players are better off in the long run learning how to fight DE with an all comers list.