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I'll keep it simple


Genestealers (I6) VS Dante (I6) Sanguinary guard (I4) Sang. Priest (I5)



Obviously Stealers and Dante strike simultaneously, however when I declared a few Nids to strike his Priest in the hope to stop FNP, my opponent (who's Dante killed 3-4 nids incl. 1-2 who were to strike the priest) said those stealers that he killed that wanted to strike the priest can only strike Dante or nothing now as they're dead.


Im confused on the matter, I thought as we struck at the same time I could hit whoever I damn well please even if that stealer died during it.

I didn't pursue the matter and went on to a slight victory however what's everyones thoughts on it?

I think I made sense?

Who you can hit is decided at the start of the round of combat. If you strike simo you can strike any legal target regardless of casualties sustained at that I step.

When working out simultaneous initiative attacks it is best to just mark the casualties somehow instead of actually removing them. Then only once you are done with that initiative do you remove them as casualties.

Also, when you have multi-unit assaults, or unit + IC, with simultaneous attacks, it is also best for both sides to declare which models at that initiative step are attacking which unit they are engaged with before either player starts rolling dice.

Remember of course that the nids in btb with and IC can only attack that IC.

They strike at the same time. So if dante rolled his attacks first (to keep things simple) and killed 3 genestealers, those 3 stealers would be able to attack back (as they attack simultaneously) but would then be removed

Your opponent was talking pap. He didnt kill the stealers "before" you hit, he killed them at the same time they were making their attacks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Your opponent was talking pap. He didnt kill the stealers "before" you hit, he killed them at the same time they were making their attacks.

Nos is right. To add, meaning that your idea of whapping the Sang Priest is good, because it would kill *him* before he gets to swing. And your opponent, knowingly or not, was circumventing your smart play.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Your opponent was talking pap. He didnt kill the stealers "before" you hit, he killed them at the same time they were making their attacks.

That's only partially true. If Dante and his squad assaulted the genestealers that turn (Which the OP didn't say whether they did or not) Dante would then be Initiative 7 from the furious charge rule given by the sanguinary priest, which means he WOULD have killed them before they strike. Since we don't know who (if anyone) charged we have to go with what the original message said, but we can't assume that the inverse did not happen.

Assuming they were both actually I6, you can certainly choose who you attack. Dante killing some Nids doesn't mean the Nids don't get to attack or have to attack someone different.

Lone Dragoon - given he gave all the Init values, including the priest having I4, we know for a fact that the BA player did NOT charge.

Like I said, I go with what the OP wrote. I'm just saying there's the possibility that OP may not have realized that Dante and company had Furious charge and that he did indeed strike first. Just because by book value Dante is I6 doesn't mean he's Initiative 6 at all times. Just like Genestealers at initiative 6 can still strike after Initiative 4 marines in certain circumstances, such as assaulting through cover.

The problem is that without giving a full scenario, the people of YMDC can't help out as well. As I said, the book values are the base stats, but there are modifiers that may or may not be in play that we don't know about because the OP said "he'd keep it simple" and didn't give that information.


And by the way, if the Sanguinary priest did have initiative 5 as the OP claims, that means the squad DID charge since they only have I4 in their profile.

But since the BA player was still allowing the now-dead Genestealers to attack, they must have been going simultaneously.

somerandomdude wrote:But since the BA player was still allowing the now-dead Genestealers to attack, they must have been going simultaneously.

The OP says "Obviously Stealers and Dante strike simultaneously" and based on the corresponding codex statlines this is true. However there's a couple of gaps here that seem a bit glaring to me. First being that he lists all the initiatives, but gets the Sang. priest Initiative is wrong, possible typo I suppose. Next is that he never stated whether the genestealers removed were in contact with only Dante, the squad, or the Sang. Priest. The OP simply said he declared a few nids to strike his opponent's priest, which could mean the stealers were in base with the priest and another unit in the CC. On the other hand it could be inferred that he declared he was attacking the priest with XYZ genestealers and none of them were in base meaning it was played wrong in the beginning, If the 1 or 2 that were going to strike at the priest (an IC) were in base contact with Dante (or the squad) instead of the priest, the opponent would be correct, but not for the reasons stated.

I'm getting a bit off-topic pertaining to the OP I realize, but I just wanted to point out that we don't have a lot of info on the game and it makes it harder to make an accurate call. The more information we have on a given situation the better everyone as players can assess and make a call on the rules.

Right I charged, I got the Sang priest Initiative wrong, doesn't matter as I'd still go first..

I had a few Nids in BTB with the Priest AND Dante, even after the Nids were thwacked by Dante, so basically even in the event that Dante killed some Stealers and happened to be some in BTB with Priest AND Dante, those said Stealers can still strike the Priest...


Am I right?


Thanks!

Thank you, that clears it up for me. In that case the Genestealers would still be able to strike, and since the blows are struck at the same time if Dante did kill several stealers, and they were in base with the priest they may still make attacks are the priest.

As a side note I wasn't trying to nitpick one person or another, but it's one of those things that without a decent explanation of the setup and context in the situation there are too many variables unaccounted for to give an accurate response to the person involved. Like I pointed out, any number of things on that list of variables I pointed out could change the outcome of the call without seeming to be important at the time of the first post.

Lone Dragoon wrote:Thank you, that clears it up for me. In that case the Genestealers would still be able to strike, and since the blows are struck at the same time if Dante did kill several stealers, and they were in base with the priest they may still make attacks are the priest.

Yeah, even though the Dante rolled first, it doesnt mean he went first, its still simultaneous and so you can wail away at the Priest for all your worth.

Ethancol wrote:Right I charged, I got the Sang priest Initiative wrong, doesn't matter as I'd still go first..

I had a few Nids in BTB with the Priest AND Dante, even after the Nids were thwacked by Dante, so basically even in the event that Dante killed some Stealers and happened to be some in BTB with Priest AND Dante, those said Stealers can still strike the Priest...


Am I right?


Thanks!

Actually if you charged then you would be subject to Furious charge and you add +1 Initiative, so dante would strike before the genestealers.

and the sang guard and priest would be I5

So no, whatever Dante kills would not be able to strike back (Since you charged dante now has an Initiative of 7 thanks to furious charge given by the blood chalice held by the priest).

Genestealers charging the priests squad bro. So they strike at the same speed, unless he took AG

DR - if you read the OP Ethancol was the 'Nid player....

Yea, I didnt notice that at first, his OP was not clear to me (Then again it was very late when I read it).

Above posts.. LOL xD


Ah well this clears it up for me!

Thanks alot guuuuuuuuys :3

I think we've established that the "dead" genestealers could still attack the priest, but my question is this: Assuming they killed the priest, would Dante get FnP against any wounds he took from the genestealers in the same round of combat?

i.e. Dante causes 3-4 unsaved wounds like the OP said, but the 'Nids cause at least one unsaved wound on both Dante and the priest. Does Dante get FnP against those wounds even though the priest is "dead"?

I'm gonna go with sure. Dante and the priest are taking their wounds simultaneously at I6. So the priest actually isn't dead when Dante suffers a wound.