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Hi everyone.

I am getting Army Builder's Block and need some advice on building an Ork Army that can take on (LOTS!) of Landraiders. It's that 14 armour all the way around that is a real killer. So far, I think I'll bring lots of DeffKoptas with Rokkits. But otherwise, I am stumped. And even a S8 weapon isn't really the best. Anyone have some good ideas for an Ork Army that wants to stand a chance in a game of Spearhead? Game will be 3000 points. I am open to Creative Options, too.

Solorg

Deffrollas and powerclaws.

-Myst

Get Battlewagons with deffrollas for lots of str 10 goodness, or as a faster alternative, get trukks with boarding planks carrying PK equipped warbosses or Ghazzy. That is about what orks can muster when it comes to str 10 hits, which is kind of sad really. Tankbustas aren't any good right now, so don't use them.

Hows about a wazzdakka biker list... Lots of power klaws etc

Well, let's see, my collection isn't bad so I can field pretty much whatev. I have Battlewagons, no DeffRollas, I think I can fix that with a quick Konversion. S10, yes, that's it. Gotz lots of Nobs with PKs. I know my opponent is onto that tact. So I guess the trick is getting them in there fast. Ghaz, sure, I could take him for a ride. I'm sure I'd bring my Squiggoth, too.

Could bring Wazdakka, yeah, have plenty of Bikes, opponents would let me "Count As" PKs I think.

All these PKs get expensive, but then again, it is a 3000 pt game. I'd rather buy troops that work even if they are pricey.

Anyone have general thoughts on Thermite Grenades for Spearhead?

Solorg wrote:Hi everyone.

I am getting Army Builder's Block and need some advice on building an Ork Army that can take on (LOTS!) of Landraiders. It's that 14 armour all the way around that is a real killer. So far, I think I'll bring lots of DeffKoptas with Rokkits. But otherwise, I am stumped. And even a S8 weapon isn't really the best. Anyone have some good ideas for an Ork Army that wants to stand a chance in a game of Spearhead? Game will be 3000 points. I am open to Creative Options, too.

Solorg

Battle Wagons w/ Deff Rollas are probably the most reliable AV14 killers in the Ork dex, followed closely by Kanz and Deff Dreadz.

As a guy who often takes dual landraiders (which is "lots!" by miost people's book) I can say what always gives me trouble with Orks is Powerclaws and sometimes deff dreads. The powerfclaws usually come at me out of a battle wagon, sure, but it's not the battle wagon that kills me.

It takes longer for the battleagon to reach me than the claws, they have an extra 8-9" on the charge.

I can usually kill the battle wagon inside with something, but orks inside, not necessarily.

Another idea is Stormboyz with Boss watshisface (can't remember is name,but he is the unit upgrade character). You have to deepstrike the unit, but they can assault in the turn you deepstrike (costs d3 boyz, but worth it). On any assault the character counts as having 2 PK, that go on his ini. Thats 4 (poss 5, I can't remember) str 9 attacks. Plus he is not an IC so your enemy can't target him directly in CC.

However, I use Kanz and Dreads to deal with tank.

Tankbustas do a great job against Landraiders. Four S9 pk attacks, six S10 tankhammer attacks and twelve S6+2d6 attacks are bound to do something, and the twelve rokkits even have a good chance to immobilize it for auto-hits.

Jidmah wrote:Tankbustas do a great job against Landraiders. Four S9 pk attacks, six S10 tankhammer attacks and twelve S6+2d6 attacks are bound to do something, and the twelve rokkits even have a good chance to immobilize it for auto-hits.

Yea, I agree here. I just recently built a 10 sized tankbusta mob and Ive been using them in every game I can get ahold of just to try them out. Ive got to say, they are surprisingly awesome. Ive read on here for years that they suck and you dont want to take them....but honestly Im stumped why thats the rep they have. Trust me, that many AV14 tanks around, a mob of tankbustas will wipe the floor with some Landraiders.

Infact Id say, if you plan on using the koptas to screen the LR for a turn or something then cool I guess, but they are completely useless against a LR. Sure you MIGHT get lucky with that TL rokkit on there, but thats alot of points to pray you score a 6 and then a 6. Id say drop the koptas and look else where for the antitank

Yeah, KingCracker, I was starting to have this feeling about the DeffKoptas. It's a lot of points and S8 is just really poor vs 14. Plus who knows if he's taking a Spearhead that gives them a 5+ invulnerable save or whatev.

I like what you're saying about the Tankbustas. I only have a few, but I can make a 10-man squad with a Nob. Maybe they'd be happy in a Battlewagon with a Deffrolla on. So I could do:

3 Battlewagons w DeffRollas.
2 with PK Nobz inside + 1 Warboss each
1 with the Tankbustas in it

That's a good start. I also have

3 Killa Kanz
2 Dreads
Deffkoptas - maybe. But not for hunting LRs.

I will also be bringing my Squiggoth which should be pure W1N.

Id say if your putting them in a battlewagon then add a boarding plank as well, that way you can have one of those tankhamma boyz do a drive by mailbox if ya catch my meaning

Let's be honest here, Klaws are definitely not optimally effective tools for dealing with Land Raiders. When playing Orks, any decent Space Marine player is going to know to keep his Land Raiders moving 12" every turn, so you should always be hitting on 6's. That really does kill your chances of doing something. Needed a 6 to hit and a 6 to glance off of 4 attacks is far from betting odds.

Instead, you should always approach Land Raiders from the viewpoint of what's inside of them. If there's a unit of Assault Terminators with an IC, obviously that's a huge threat to anything in your army, so you don't want it hitting your good stuff. Maybe feed a sacrificial unit to the Termies (cheap Trukk boy squad, for instance), in order to get them out of their ride, so that you can charge them or shoot them with something that can deal with them better. Getting the charge off against a unit like Furious-Charging Black Templar LC Termies completely changes the way that combat goes down. Play the unit inside the Land Raider, and then, once that is dealt with, you'll find it much easier to handle the LR.

However, one of the best things you can do with a Land Raider is often to not deal with it. Ever parked a squadron of Rokkit Buggies at max coherency in front of a Land Raider? It'll spend a full turn just driving to one side of the formation. Blocking tactics work wonders with Land Raiders. They're big, bulkey transports, so use their size against them. Disputing their movement, forcing them to cross Dangerous Terrain, and pinning in their movement are some of the best ways to kill them. The bottom line here is this: Orks don't deal with Lander Raiders well in the shooting phase, so make up for that by using the movement phase to deal with them.

However, if you absolutely, positively, 100% need to kill that Land Raider... Deffrolla it. It's your best hope.

Yes, ignoring it is a good tactic, but thats when your talking about 1 or 2 landraiders. You cant ignore them whens theres more then that

are you facing Loyalist or Chaos marines? if they're loyalists are they crusaders or redeemers?

Probably facing Blood Angels. And yes, this player is very smart with his army and unlikely to make any mistakes while playing. Also he has been in the hobby a long time so no telling how many LRs he will bring. I know he will bring a Baneblade, too. I am sure he will bring Terminators, though. Everything he has outclasses me. I usually deal by outnumbering him. But having to deal with lots of LRs (more allowed in Spearhead) is a new wrinkle. I'd like to bring lots of troops and might do so - but he will definitely hang out at a distance and blast me if I try that, so I need something to keep the LRs busy. And I figure as long as I am at it, might as well actually try to take them out.

So far 3 Battlewagons w/ DeffRollas are sounding like a good bet. Maybe filled with Nobz/Eavy Armour/Painboy each - do you think this sort of unit would have a chance vs Termies? Rolling 6's vs a moving LR is hard to do - on my side, a disembarked unit of PK Nobz is bound to get some 6s, but my opponent will want to shoot them up or something after the attack, so I have to be careful. Even so, PK Nobz w/ Painboyz might have a decent fight vs Terminators, so that might be the right way to go...

The problem with using nobz to fight termies, even nicely tooled up nobz, is eventually termies get to attack, and then your pretty much screwing yourself for attack them. Powerfists are simply put, a great counter to nobz, my son usually has a PF champion in his Chaos units, and taking out the marines is no big deal, but the one that does the hurting on me is the PF champ. Relying on a 5++ to keep a whole model from being squashed doesnt make me very comfy. Also, relying on rolling 6s to hit and then 6s again for a nob w/pk just isnt a smart move either. If you were to ask me, only use a boss w/pk or DCCW or something that pulls a str10 hit, because other wise your just hoping things work out

Nobz don't kill terminators, boyz and burnaz do. A battlewagon full of boyz or burnaz force lots of saves on them, and they will fail some of those. And the best part: Those awesome Storm Shields can't do a thing about it. Burnaz are even better against non-assault-terminators, as they strike first, with lots of attacks ignoring their armor.

shealyr wrote:Let's be honest here, Klaws are definitely not optimally effective tools for dealing with Land Raiders. When playing Orks, any decent Space Marine player is going to know to keep his Land Raiders moving 12" every turn, so you should always be hitting on 6's. That really does kill your chances of doing something. Needed a 6 to hit and a 6 to glance off of 4 attacks is far from betting odds.

If his Land Raiders are moving 12" then they can't disembark troops and they can't fire anything except Bolters - i.e. they're worthless. So if they are moving 12", they're not a threat, job done.

You don't have to destroy a vehicle to reduce it's threat. If your opponent is terrified of being opened up like a tin of beans by Power Klaws and keeps his 250pt vehicles buzzing around unable to drop troops or shoot, then you've done a bloody good job, no?

Not with POTMS. It keeps firing and picking things off.

Also they can totally disembark troops after moving 12"...so you're not actually hurting him at all by forcing 12" moves out of "fear".

Jidmah wrote:Nobz don't kill terminators, boyz and burnaz do. A battlewagon full of boyz or burnaz force lots of saves on them, and they will fail some of those. And the best part: Those awesome Storm Shields can't do a thing about it. Burnaz are even better against non-assault-terminators, as they strike first, with lots of attacks ignoring their armor.

Burnas? I can do burnas.

And don't discount Wrekkin' Balls. Make sure to model them so the Balls are close enough to be within 2" of a Deffrolla'd vehicle- that's a Str. 9 hit in Assault phase, that always hits on a 4+, no matter what speed the enemy vehicle was moving. oh, and Grabbin' Klaws. 4+ to keep his vehicle from moving, for autohits? Yes please. As it's only the cost of a Burna or Loota for the both of them, you should have enough points to slap them on all your Battlewagons.

And it's funny, but Tankbustas actually have a pretty decent psychological punch against Land Raider players, in my experience. That many Rokkits is bound to do something, and you Do Not want them getting within Assault range.

Okay, so I am half done with this game so far. And it is awful. Oh, the AGONY!

Burna Boyz vs Terminators - WRONG. I jumped them out of their vehicle and attacked. Their I3 made them go last. There were none left alive to even try to strike with their Power Weapons. Actually, 2 full units of Burna Boyz were dead... but fast.

I had a Crusher Spearhead - all Battlewagons with DeffRollas. Oh, these were all shot to pieces by the end of Turn 2... even against the front armour. As their crews bailed out they were destroyed, too.

My ally brought on his Stompa and this was killed in 1 turn by the Warhound which was 80" away.

Head... still... spinning... trying to figure out what happened... massed firepower... never had a chance.

EDIT: I will say this. It was so satisfying when the enemy Chimera tried to ram the front of my Battlewagon and was itself obliterated by the attempt. Those Deffrollas are awesome. Ramming worked perfectly. Will post pictures sometime soon. In the second half of the game (next week) I bring on my Squiggoth. Hope to have a little more fun.

Erm terminators pretty much has I1, fists and TH make them go last.

winnertakesall wrote:Erm terminators pretty much has I1, fists and TH make them go last.

It's possible they had lightning claws.

I guess it's a little late now, but if you put a boomgun wagons in a tank hunter spearhead that makes them S9 ordinance.

and while I myself don't play orks wouldn't furious charge get them to at least strike at the same initiative as LC terms?

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:Erm terminators pretty much has I1, fists and TH make them go last.

It's possible they had lightning claws.

Ah true, I didn't think of that.

Ork nobz would, but standard ork boys and the like all have I2 base.

Addendum: Do not ignore how effective piling wounds on terminators is. According to my mathhammer it is typically more effective to burninate terminators with than it is to assault them.